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  #1  
Old 09-21-2021, 9:23 AM
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Kalashnikov007 Kalashnikov007 is offline
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Default Bullet Button AW Registration, Registering 80% Laws

The registration period for bullet button AW's is opening again. What does everyone think about that, do you think it's worth it?

Also, regarding 80% lowers built prior to the 2018 "ghost gun" serializing law.. If they were built in 2015 for example, can this be registered as a Bullet Button AW? The DOJ only requires 80% lowers built after 2018 to be DOJ serialized, so, if the 80% just has the manufactures info, and their own serial number, will these be allowed to be registered as a Bullet Button AW?
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Old 09-21-2021, 9:53 AM
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you're going to re-hash the same pro-/anti- registration arguments that went round for a couple years.
This registration will only be available to people who tried but were not able to register during the last round. It isn't a new open period for anybody who wants to.
80%s would have had to be registered with DOJ back then, even without a DOJ serial, to be eligible. The ghost gun law made it so you had to register; all existing 80s could be registered as-is, all new ones after that need DOJ serial. It's not legal to own a completely unregistered 80% anymore no matter when it was made. Stacking an AW registration on top of that I suppose could be possible if you have all the other ducks in a row.
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Old 09-21-2021, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbo80 View Post
you're going to re-hash the same pro-/anti- registration arguments that went round for a couple years.
This registration will only be available to people who tried but were not able to register during the last round. It isn't a new open period for anybody who wants to.
80%s would have had to be registered with DOJ back then, even without a DOJ serial, to be eligible. The ghost gun law made it so you had to register; all existing 80s could be registered as-is, all new ones after that need DOJ serial. It's not legal to own a completely unregistered 80% anymore no matter when it was made. Stacking an AW registration on top of that I suppose could be possible if you have all the other ducks in a row.
I pulled this quote from here: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/atta...umer-alert.pdf

"Any person who possesses a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm that does not bear a serial number must apply to the DOJ for a unique serial number by January 1, 2019."

Also, this quote from 80percentarms

"If you build an 80% lower into a 100% lower receiver after July 1, 2018, you must FIRST apply to the California DOJ for a serial number, pay a fee, and they will then assign a serial number that you must apply to your firearm.

If you built your firearm prior to July 2018 and already engraved a serial number of your choosing that is compliant with ATF regulations, the text of the law seems to indicate that this should be in compliance."

So what I take from this is that anything made before July 1, 2018 with a serial number is fine to have, and it doesn't need a DOJ unique serial number.
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Old 09-21-2021, 1:51 PM
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As part of the resubmitting of AW reg, you have to swear under penalty of perjury that you tried to register these previously and could not because of website problems.

This reopened registration is not for people who missed the boat last time, or changed their mind in the interim. It is for people who had firearms they tried to register as BB AW years ago, but had problems doing so.

So presumably anyone who is registering, has already had this conversation with themselves years ago and actually did try to register.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-21-2021 at 1:53 PM..
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Old 09-21-2021, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov007 View Post
So what I take from this is that anything made before July 1, 2018 with a serial number is fine to have, and it doesn't need a DOJ unique serial number.
Yes, but you've only got half the info. The stuff you quoted refers to PC29180. And it hinges on what "counts" as a serial number. If you read the next part, PC29181 it lists exemptions to the requirement. In those exemptions, "serial numbers" are only ones applied by legit manufacturers (which paid an excise tax to do so). Not your home engraved info. So the logical extension is that you were not exempt from getting a DOJ number just because you had something already on your 80. However, exemption (c) is "a firearm which is entered into the centralized registry...prior to July 1 2018...". That means, if you self-registered your 80% with the DOJ, you could keep your serial as "the" serial number and didn't need the DOJ one. That is a key detail that 80percentarms left out. Lots of people did this, there were lots of threads about it back then. True you don't need a DOJ number, but in order to do so, had to register your 80. The law was not really about marking. It was about registering.
If you have an 80% that is engraved, but not registered with the DOJ at all, and you try to register it as an AW, I think you are going to find yourself with a visit. IANAL, so read it yourself, or better yet, hire a lawyer to read it for you and advise.
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Old 09-22-2021, 5:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov007 View Post
I pulled this quote from here: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/atta...umer-alert.pdf

"Any person who possesses a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm that does not bear a serial number must apply to the DOJ for a unique serial number by January 1, 2019."

Also, this quote from 80percentarms

"If you build an 80% lower into a 100% lower receiver after July 1, 2018, you must FIRST apply to the California DOJ for a serial number, pay a fee, and they will then assign a serial number that you must apply to your firearm.

If you built your firearm prior to July 2018 and already engraved a serial number of your choosing that is compliant with ATF regulations, the text of the law seems to indicate that this should be in compliance."

So what I take from this is that anything made before July 1, 2018 with a serial number is fine to have, and it doesn't need a DOJ unique serial number.
Starting 07-01-2018, all non-exempt self-made (80%) firearms requires CA DOJ approved marking info, in order to be considered CA legal. [PC 29180(b)]

People who made CA legal self-made firearms before 07-01-2018 could voluntarily mark them with their own info and voluntarily register it with CA DOJ before 07-01-2018. [PC 29181(c)]

People who made CA legal self-made firearms before 07-01-2018 that did not voluntarily mark them with their own info and register them with CA DOJ before 07-01-2018 must apply for CA DOJ marking info and mark them with the CA DOJ info before 01-01-2019. [PC 29180(c)]

Starting 01-01-2019, non-exempt self-made firearms that are not registered with CA DOJ are considered illegal self-made firearms that are subject to confiscation/destruction for violating CA self-made firearm laws. [PC 29180(d)(3)]

Exempt self-made firearms are:
A. Those made by a FFL. [PC 29181(a)]
B. Long guns that were made before 12-16-1968. [PC 29181(b)]
C. Engraved with the maker's info and voluntarily registered with CA DOJ before 07-01-2018. [PC 29181(c)]
D. BATFE approved Title 2 firearms. [PC 29181(d)]
E. C&R and antique firearms. [PC 29181(e)]
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-22-2021 at 6:22 AM..
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2021, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbo80 View Post
If you have an 80% that is engraved, but not registered with the DOJ at all, and you try to register it as an AW, I think you are going to find yourself with a visit. IANAL, so read it yourself, or better yet, hire a lawyer to read it for you and advise.
All self-made (80%) firearms that do not have a CA DOJ serial number are not eligible to be registered as an assault weapon by a non-FFL. [11 CCR 5472(g)]

Any attempt to do so, will just be justification for CA DOJ to obtain a search warrant to look for illegal self-made firearms and illegal assault weapons.

DO NOT submit a RAW application for a self-made firearm that does not have a CA DOJ serial number.


Prior to 07-01-218, a person intending to register a self-made firearm as an assault weapon, had to obtain CA DOJ marking info and engrave it on the firearm, before they could apply to register it as an assault weapon. [11 CCR 5472.2]

Starting 07-01-2018, CA self-made firearms prohibits a non-exempt person from making a firearm that meets CA's definition of an assault weapon. [PC 29182(e)(1)]
^This made it illegal to obtain CA DOJ marking info for a self-made firearm to register it as an assault weapon after 06-30-2018.



California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 3 Section 5472
Weapons That Will Not Be Registered as Assault Weapons.
(a) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a firearm unless it was lawfully possessed on or before December 31, 2016.
(b) The Department will not register a firearm that was required to be registered under prior assault weapon registration laws in effect before January 1, 2017. These weapons include, but are not limited to, firearms known as “named assault weapons” and are listed in Penal Code section 30510 and sections 5495 and 5499 of Chapter 40.
(c) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm is featureless, except for bullet-button shotguns as described in section 5470(d).
(d) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm has a fixed magazine that holds ten rounds or less.
(e) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon unless the firearm is fully assembled and fully functional.
(f) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a firearm manufactured by a federally-licensed manufacturer if the firearm does not have a serial number applied pursuant to federal law.
(g) The Department will not register as an assault weapon a FMBUS if the firearm does not have a serial number assigned by the Department and applied by the owner or agent pursuant to section 5474.2.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(s) “FMBUS” means a Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject.

Penal Code 29182
(e)(1) This chapter does not authorize a person to manufacture, assemble, or possess a weapon prohibited under Section 16590, an assault weapon as defined in Section 30510 or 30515, a machinegun as defined in Section 16880, a .50 BMG rifle as defined in Section 30530, or a destructive device as defined in Section 16460.
(2) This chapter does not authorize a person, on or after July 1, 2018, to manufacture or assemble an unsafe handgun, as defined in Section 31910.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-22-2021 at 6:14 AM..
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