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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:57 AM
Exocet5 Exocet5 is offline
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Default CQB vs armored cyborgs

Semi serious thought provoking topic.

Let's say its 2037 and you are in a close quarters battle (< 75 yards) vs a new type of bad guy: cyborgs. Think of a terminator but not as futuristically armored/hard to kill as the movies would make them as the armored weight would create mobility issues. Human sized but more machine than anything. And connected to a high speed "bad guy" info network.

That said, what civilian available weapons produced 1897-2018 would be most effective? In 2037, these would be antiques.

There are some obvious ones that come to mind BUT consider this is CQB within a building. And since this is vs mostly metal...the normal ideas of velocity vs mass vs projectile shape may not hold water.

Please.... not trying to start a flame war. And ya, "phased plasma rifle in the 30 watt range" would be my instant go to if available.

Thoughts please
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:28 PM
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They are called Abrams Tanks and Apache Helicopters. Can't stop those now with any weapon available to the public.

Are you really worried about this or is just your attempt at humor ?.
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2018, 1:38 PM
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Thanks...this is not an attempt at humor. If you study my threads, I only pursue serious subjects. Not an active worry, thinking of what may becoming down the pike.

What other place could this conversation happen with the breadth of CG's collective knowledge? I'm fairly up to speed on current developements in biotech, transhumanism, & network developement.

Not a rapture guy. Daniel's "teeth of iron" is a thought.
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Old 06-11-2018, 1:55 PM
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whatever you use, the "bad guy" will adapt to it and it will be useless.

since these cyborgs are connected to their high speed network 24/7, they will analyze whatever methods you use and the counter-act it.

use AP ammo, they will up-armor vital systems

use traps, they will avoid them next time

etc

the only way is to join their cyborg legions and be part of the winning team.
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Old 06-11-2018, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
whatever you use, the "bad guy" will adapt to it and it will be useless.

since these cyborgs are connected to their high speed network 24/7, they will analyze whatever methods you use and the counter-act it.

use AP ammo, they will up-armor vital systems

use traps, they will avoid them next time

etc

the only way is to join their cyborg legions and be part of the winning team.
This is exactly what a cyborg would post.

Maybe a t-shirt cannon launching cans of soda? Ruin them cyborgs just like any other thinkin machine I've ever owned.

Maybe incendiary rounds? Or an Elon Musk flame thrower? Maybe he's preparing to overheat a bunch of cyborgs in 2037.
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2018, 3:10 PM
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Not sure if 62gr SS109/M855 has enough mass. Does anyone make 7.62x51 AP or strickly Lake City/NATO stuff? I will probably need a flame suit by this evening...

If you needed a better picture of who you are defending against, think of this one. Trying to keep it light. (Lol....?)

Daniel 7:7 New International Version (NIV)

7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."

Carry on.
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Old 06-11-2018, 3:13 PM
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Oh wait....here's something from DARPA

https://www.wired.com/2009/07/milita...ing-robots/amp
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Old 06-11-2018, 3:37 PM
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My $0.05 (hey, inflation gets everything. The nickel is probably worth on 1.5 cents anyway...):

One problem is your premise: A weapon made in 2018 is already 20 years old. Almost like bringing a cap and ball revolver (old style, the one where you need a powder horn and cap. Not one of the centerfire conversions) to a modern battlefield with automatic weapons.

Something else that will help: while robotics would likely be more advanced, a system like your describing would be a bit fragile, even with all of the protection. The joints would be intricate; the electronics sensitive. Star Wars notwithstanding. Go back to the days of the old armored knights. All you had to do to render them inert was to knock him over or dent/damage the joints of the armor. There used to be a weapon called an armor breaker in those days whose purpose was to damage the joints of the armor rendering the knight unable to move. He could then be killed at will. My personal belief is that what's old is new and what's new is old: All you'd have to do is knock the cyborg over and IF it weren't damaged in the process, you'd have time to run away. My answers presume a sort of upright, humanoid cyborg. If different, then my answer changes.

To that end:

1. Large, weighted bolos. Throw to the feet or knee type joints. Tangle them up. Kind of like the Imperial Walkers in The Empire Strikes Back on Hoth.

2. Steel grappling net with weighted ends. Tangle em up and hopefully the momentum knocks them over. If not, fire something heavy to knock them over once you've tangled them.

3. Any sort of EMP type of system. Fry the electronics, presuming that haven't hardened them. If you have to use bullets, go for the sensitive areas then fry them once damaged.

4. If available, commercial explosive charges, but smaller ones and perhaps Anarchist Cookbook style "sticky wickets" to the optic or other sensors.

5. Light them up with some sort of shrapnel to remove the protective coatings around the joints and sensors then use a derived 24 molar HCL (or other type) acid. Should eat the metals pretty fast; especially circuit boards if you can soak them, rendering it a plastic shell or bits. Magic of this one is that you don't have to be hyper accurate. Just close...it's an area weapon.

Just some thoughts. OBVIOUSLY I'm playing a bit of a hypothetical here and allowing for the creation of some commercial type stuff in 20 years, but also trying to stay guerrilla style here.

Given the premise, the only way to beat it is to render it immobile or insensate. Just beating it down won't likely work. Remember: metal is stronger than meat in this case and some sort of hardened tungsten/depleted uranium/steel super alloy will beat copper and lead every day.

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Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Semi serious thought provoking topic.

Let's say its 2037 and you are in a close quarters battle (< 75 yards) vs a new type of bad guy: cyborgs. Think of a terminator but not as futuristically armored/hard to kill as the movies would make them as the armored weight would create mobility issues. Human sized but more machine than anything. And connected to a high speed "bad guy" info network.

That said, what civilian available weapons produced 1897-2018 would be most effective? In 2037, these would be antiques.

There are some obvious ones that come to mind BUT consider this is CQB within a building. And since this is vs mostly metal...the normal ideas of velocity vs mass vs projectile shape may not hold water.

Please.... not trying to start a flame war. And ya, "phased plasma rifle in the 30 watt range" would be my instant go to if available.

Thoughts please
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  #9  
Old 06-11-2018, 3:44 PM
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My previous still stands, since you said underfoot in the Scripture.

Also...it still stands to reason: It must either be immobilized or insensate. You do NOT need to actually kill it outright. That's the key to whatever metal technological terror the state devises.

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Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Not sure if 62gr SS109/M855 has enough mass. Does anyone make 7.62x51 AP or strickly Lake City/NATO stuff? I will probably need a flame suit by this evening...

If you needed a better picture of who you are defending against, think of this one. Trying to keep it light. (Lol....?)

Daniel 7:7 New International Version (NIV)

7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."

Carry on.
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  #10  
Old 06-11-2018, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Thanks...this is not an attempt at humor. If you study my threads, I only pursue serious subjects. Not an active worry, thinking of what may becoming down the pike.

What other place could this conversation happen with the breadth of CG's collective knowledge? I'm fairly up to speed on current developements in biotech, transhumanism, & network developement.

Not a rapture guy. Daniel's "teeth of iron" is a thought.


Serious answer.

I'm not worried about it at all. I won't be here in 2037!
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  #11  
Old 06-11-2018, 4:36 PM
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Dig ditches. Works against all kinds of things.
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Old 06-11-2018, 4:47 PM
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Just like in the movie, go old school -- physics will always win. First, since you said it was in a building then we have a small environment, which is in our favor, because it means we don't have to deal with a large area.

First, since we're in a building, weaken the floors, and flood the lower levels with a deep pool of pre-catalyzed, conductive colloidal epoxy. I guess that's not super old school, but it's hardly high-tech.

When the robot walks in, it breaks through the weakened floor (because it's armored and armor will always weigh a ton), and falls into the pool of sludge . Sinks like a stone because, again, armor. No way anything can climb out of that mess, it makes quicksand look like water. It would have tons of weight on it, but no way to propel itself up. I imagine it would try to find a side and start digging, if it can figure out what has happened to it....unlikely it has been programmed with "what to do in case you fall into a pool of colloidal epoxy"...and it can't dial out for help, because:

Since now I have it in a very very very small area, where I can really focus on it, I turn on directional radio jammers. Easy, foolproof, at least when you only have to deal with a small area, like the bottom of a pool. Doesn't matter how amazing his high speed network is, radio waves will always be radio waves. If we're putting out a few kW of noise, no way it can communicate, so what happens to it when it is cut off from the network by my simple jammers? Does it give up?

Then, while it's at the bottom of the pool and cut off from the network, put a few dozen kV of electricity into the conductive epoxy in the pool. Good luck dealing with that.

Anyways, even if it was immune to having kV of juice tearing into it, and it did get instructions/already knew to start digging into the side of the pool, that would take it hours (it's a combat robot, not an Earth mover), and in just a matter of minutes, the epoxy goes off, and solidifies. Robot will never move again. Get a Sikorsky sky crane, lift the epoxy block as a whole, load it onto a C-5 Galaxy, fly it over the volcano in Hawaii, and push it out

Problem solved
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Old 06-11-2018, 5:53 PM
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Interesting 5G network development note: carrier signals are severely degraded/disrupted in rain, fog. Hence the rollout of 5G will occur first in the dry southwest with the wet NW the last to undergo network developement / low earth orbit sat coverage.
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Old 06-11-2018, 8:03 PM
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Same way humans have always killed things far larger and more dangerous than themselves... with cannon fodder.

Send in as many boarhounds as you can find. Once the targets are immobilized, either dynamite the whole building, or if you must, coup de grace with a large caliber firearm...

If you're not allowed to cheat, then don't even fight. Hire them!

If not allowed to cheat or hire them, then you're in a pickle. Best advice I can think of is .50 BMG and really, really good earplugs. Otherwise there are just too many unknowns about their super technology to make much intelligent comment.
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Old 06-11-2018, 8:24 PM
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.458 Socom.


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Old 06-11-2018, 9:02 PM
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Supersapper your post reminds me to reference the "reference material" and go backwards: Look at Daniels words

Whatever these cyborgs are, they are obviously larger (Daniel uses the word "terrifying" to describe them) but they must be man-sized to fit within existing doorways & structures found worldwide. Not 12 feet high....perhaps 6' 8" to fit through a standard doorway. Daniel also does not describe them with bracers or breastplate or encased in some other armor....something that would be familiar in his day....only that the "teeth were of iron". This is why I initially used the term cyborg....an augmented humanoid but grotesquely grown/built for maximum terror. Shock & awe right?

You make an xlnt point on the joints; Daniel uses the words "very powerful..... crushed.....trampled underfoot" so these things must be proportionately pretty heavy to both look frightening and inflict so much blunt damage* Not 200 lbs.....300lbs? Not too heavy to drop thru a wooden floor but heavy enough to do serious damage to flesh/bone if a (servo-controlled) appendage is swung/stomped downward

I like that Socom .458. How does it compare to .50 BMG?
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Old 06-11-2018, 9:08 PM
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speedrrracer wins
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 06-11-2018, 9:11 PM
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I'll be so old that I probably won't be of much help to the younger crowd in actual battle. Except, I'm . Therefore, I would assist the youngsters in figuring out different ways to immobilize and subsequently put the lights out on the robot "thingies", then I would attempt to re-task their own weapons against the others "bad guys".



But what we really should do, is abandon all technology to prevent the robot "skynet" from taking over.
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Old 06-11-2018, 9:19 PM
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Speedracer does have an outstanding post lol but I think the premise of CQB against cyborgs equipped with radios is a fast response that kills or renders immobile the transhuman so you can get away/escape before his friends triangulate your location and show up.

My evolving philosophy against meat BG's are 9mm glock based personal defense weapons w/ RDS faceshots to 100 yards and TBD against metal/meat BG'S. All defensive uses.

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Old 06-12-2018, 3:57 AM
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How about .50 Beowulf?
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Old 06-12-2018, 9:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Supersapper your post reminds me to reference the "reference material" and go backwards: Look at Daniels words

Whatever these cyborgs are, they are obviously larger (Daniel uses the word "terrifying" to describe them) but they must be man-sized to fit within existing doorways & structures found worldwide. Not 12 feet high....perhaps 6' 8" to fit through a standard doorway. Daniel also does not describe them with bracers or breastplate or encased in some other armor....something that would be familiar in his day....only that the "teeth were of iron". This is why I initially used the term cyborg....an augmented humanoid but grotesquely grown/built for maximum terror. Shock & awe right?

You make an xlnt point on the joints; Daniel uses the words "very powerful..... crushed.....trampled underfoot" so these things must be proportionately pretty heavy to both look frightening and inflict so much blunt damage* Not 200 lbs.....300lbs? Not too heavy to drop thru a wooden floor but heavy enough to do serious damage to flesh/bone if a (servo-controlled) appendage is swung/stomped downward

I like that Socom .458. How does it compare to .50 BMG?
I wasn't specifically referencing Daniel's words...I am a Christian also, but I wasn't going in that direction specifically. I was simply referencing the situation. I did actually account for the Daniel reference, I just used current technology projected forward. Consider: to someone who never, ever saw a toilet, how would you describe one? How would you describe a tank or helicopter mentioned above? That would be the case to Daniel. How would he describe a man made of metal that has no soul, spirit or skin? They would all be fearsome and terrifying. Also, I went the route of the following:

Weakening the floor structure in a multi-story building is a generally bad idea because that has to be super balanced...you risk making the structure of the building unstable and not habitable for safety reasons even without the robot assault.

Secondly, I went with the presumption (based on lack of evidence to the contrary) that this was a shock and awe assault where there was no knowledge of the assault. The “deep pool of pre-catalyzed, conductive colloidal epoxy” would have to have been prepped and made ready and only, according to the post, would last a few minutes. There would be no time to weaken floors in a safe manner to support habitation and you’d have to have timed the epoxy for the assault.

In the event of that, your hideout is compromised, so just bring the building down on them. You could have rigged those charges with no risk.

I did mention guerrilla style, so you’d have prepped charges and acid weapons, but digging holes into the foundation and lining them up into upper floors would be way too risky. Remember, with gear and kit, you might just weigh almost as much as they do and set off your own traps in the din of battle.

You make no references to armor evolution 20 years on the future, which is why I said that the most modern man made, portable weapon available to civilians would be largely ineffective, as they would have the more advanced styles of ablative or absorbative armor. I would have my doubts about .458 SoCom in that case. Remember…the cyborg machines would know about it and the creators would have taken that into account for armor. It might only be good against the softer pin point targets (if you can hit them).

I stand by the assertions…the only way to effectively bring them down is to immobilize or make them insensate. However you do it.
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Old 06-12-2018, 9:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedrrracer View Post
Just like in the movie, go old school -- physics will always win. First, since you said it was in a building then we have a small environment, which is in our favor, because it means we don't have to deal with a large area.

First, since we're in a building, weaken the floors, and flood the lower levels with a deep pool of pre-catalyzed, conductive colloidal epoxy. I guess that's not super old school, but it's hardly high-tech.

When the robot walks in, it breaks through the weakened floor (because it's armored and armor will always weigh a ton), and falls into the pool of sludge . Sinks like a stone because, again, armor. No way anything can climb out of that mess, it makes quicksand look like water. It would have tons of weight on it, but no way to propel itself up. I imagine it would try to find a side and start digging, if it can figure out what has happened to it....unlikely it has been programmed with "what to do in case you fall into a pool of colloidal epoxy"...and it can't dial out for help, because:

Since now I have it in a very very very small area, where I can really focus on it, I turn on directional radio jammers. Easy, foolproof, at least when you only have to deal with a small area, like the bottom of a pool. Doesn't matter how amazing his high speed network is, radio waves will always be radio waves. If we're putting out a few kW of noise, no way it can communicate, so what happens to it when it is cut off from the network by my simple jammers? Does it give up?

Then, while it's at the bottom of the pool and cut off from the network, put a few dozen kV of electricity into the conductive epoxy in the pool. Good luck dealing with that.

Anyways, even if it was immune to having kV of juice tearing into it, and it did get instructions/already knew to start digging into the side of the pool, that would take it hours (it's a combat robot, not an Earth mover), and in just a matter of minutes, the epoxy goes off, and solidifies. Robot will never move again. Get a Sikorsky sky crane, lift the epoxy block as a whole, load it onto a C-5 Galaxy, fly it over the volcano in Hawaii, and push it out

Problem solved
a few issues i can think of.

first, LOS to network will alert the local network of danger at last point of contact. you are assuming that these cyborgs travel alone. once one loses contact, the rest that is assigned to its group in that area will converge. since with machines, the only reason it would lose signal is either: it was disabled, or human intervention.

they will converge to investigate. if it was disabled, figure out why. if it was destroyed, it equals humans to kill in immediate area.

second, you assume that the machine will have to "dig" itself out. why can't it climb out? with cyborg strength, what is to stop it from literally punching itself hand holds on the side of the makeshift pool to then climb out of it? unless you took time to perfect prepare the pool and lined the walls with materials that you know the cyborgs can't punch into to create hand holds.

plus, you are also assuming that the machines won't just decide that when a cyborg loses signal while out in the field, they won't have overwatch bombers that will launch a ATGM / Guided Bomb to hit the last point of contact that will level the entire city block.

since if their goal is the eradication of the human race, why worry about collateral damage? it will all be rebuilt anyways.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:01 AM
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40mm for the win


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Old 06-12-2018, 12:23 PM
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I'll play.
Drag it down with ropes/nets. While it struggles to get up somebody runs over to it with a lit thermite sticky bomb, place it on the sweet spot and make a wish.
List of supplies:
Aluminum dust.
Rust dust.
Magnesium ribbon.
Fuse.
BIC lighter.
Tar or grease.
Rope or steel cable.
Some numb nut dumb enough to plant the bomb.

Either that or use the holy hand grenade of Antioch.

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Old 06-12-2018, 12:29 PM
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I would agree, but I got the sense that the OP was implying that military grade stuff would not be allowed in this scenario given his statement of "...available to civilians".

If we were talking post apocalyptic where we could "find" anything on the ground from dead military folks and use it, the M-134 Dakota minigun or an XM 556 microgun.
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Old 06-12-2018, 1:19 PM
Exocet5 Exocet5 is offline
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Thermite FTW

SuperSapper is your idea with the miniguns literally knock over force or the idea to simply overwhelm the [composite] armor by pure mass x velocity physics?

What about something like Barrett's shorty .50 carbine? 20" barrel and less recoil than the full sized platform? (They explain in the article). Don't know the specs out of that barrel though.

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Old 06-12-2018, 1:59 PM
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Lure it outside and hit it with a truck.
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Old 06-12-2018, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
Thermite FTW

SuperSapper is your idea with the miniguns literally knock over force or the idea to simply overwhelm the [composite] armor by pure mass x velocity physics?

What about something like Barrett's shorty .50 carbine? 20" barrel and less recoil than the full sized platform? (They explain in the article). Don't know the specs out of that barrel though.

M82CQ - avail now for sale used

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/a...etails?id=3392
I agree with the thermite, though I always thought that thermite had to be ignited with a flare; ie that a BIC isn't hot enough to ignite the magnesium. I'll have to review my chemistry. My only other obstacle is how to emplace or throw in such a way that it sticks to them. That was the idea with the "sticky" charges I mentioned earlier. Find a way to combine it, and I'm all in.

The idea of the miniguns is to overwhelm the bots with projectiles in the hopes that several will hit critical joints or sensors. With the firepower, and depending on the armor composition, then overwhelming the armor by sheer volume is the other idea. So to answer your question, yes. Sort of. Given the mass of, say 350 pounds minimum, here's my 9th grade physics equations. It's been a long time, so please be forgiving. Here goes:

69 gr Hornady bullet at 3200 fps = .0045 kg bullet moving at 984 m/s.

KE = 1/2mv^2 = (.5)(.0045)(984)(984) = 2169 Joules = 1605 ft/pounds

If the bullet lands square in the middle of the chest and delivers 100% energy to the receiving mass, then in theory, 1 round delivers 1600 foot pounds to a 159 kg object. In theory, the object would move backward at about 5 m/s, using the inelastic collision theory.

Only problem is that I think the bullets would more likely ricochet off the ablative armor, so the delivery of energy would be significantly less. Moreover, I have to believe there is some sort of ability of the machine to maintain balance and resist the backward push. Don't know...like I said, it's been way too long and this is totally hypothetical. I also think they'd be heavier than 350 pounds.

If we use 7.62 x 51, then yes. I would be going for the sheer force to unbalance them and at that point, I think there would be significant damage via volume.

But we digress: the original post said "available to civilians", therefore I stick to my "guerilla tactics" above.
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Old 06-12-2018, 7:36 PM
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Thermite ingredients were posted.
Start the party as follows;
BIC -> fuse -> magnesium ribbon-> thermite. We have ignition.
Make anti-armor anti bot bullets out of the scrap metal for ma deuce?

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Old 06-12-2018, 8:06 PM
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I'll play along.
My first thought was taken... EMP.

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3. Any sort of EMP type of system. Fry the electronics, presuming that haven't hardened them. If you have to use bullets, go for the sensitive areas then fry them once damaged.
The other option would be to use a High voltage Electrical Fence or buried line to fry the circuit.

Thermite was also mentioned, as well as traps, and heavy construction equipment.
Trap the bot and bury it in concrete or soil.

All good ideas and an interesting discussion to be sure.
Let the ideas continue.
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Old 06-12-2018, 9:45 PM
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Old school physics. Arnold got the Predator with a big log. So did the Ewoks against Empire walkers. I'd forget about small projectiles/bullets that move fast. Use big objects and let gravity do the work. With time to prepare there's a lot you could rig up inside a building. Like dropping an elevator on it.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:33 PM
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What about the good old .50bmg? It’s already used for disabling vehicles. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in the scenario you’re talking about.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:10 AM
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Sneak up behind it and cut the extension cord.

If it is battery powered, wait 20 minutes for the battery guy to come by with fresh batteries and shoot him before he can swap the old ones for new.

What are the energy requirements for a CQB robot? Pretty high I would imagine.

— Michael
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Old 06-13-2018, 9:28 AM
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You make a good point on energy requirements. My thought on this creature is that it is some kind of armored & augmented transhumanoid that is internally powered by metabolic processes like the DARPA "corpse" eating bot unveiled in 2009. It's middle name is terror and submission. Daniel clearly references three contemporary "beasts" in his visions: a bear, a lion, a leopard but could not positively identify this 4th beast.

Whatever power requirements this thing has, in light of its mission, it must:

1/ be able to sprint short distances (50-75 yards)
2/ be able to apply great torque force to its arms & legs to grapple, stomp, and swing
3/ be able to apply hydraulic press-like force to its hardened teeth; WE KNOW FROM DANIEL this bastard has an upper and lower row of teeth so its not a stabbing force it uses to kill, it's a clamping force. It just dawned on me right now this thing really IS eating (!#/$//^! $@@!!)

If the combat exoskeleton developed for this thing is battery powered, the rate at which battery tech is progressing is something to pay attention to not unlike Moore's Law (i.e the rate of CPU processing power doubles every 2 year).

Something else that popped in my head is that this thing has no onboard projectile weapons b/k its simply deployed and left to run amok. No resupply since its powered by mission targets.
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Old 06-13-2018, 9:48 AM
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biobattery

Biobatteries

Edit:

A significant advantage that bio-batteries have in comparison to other batteries is their ability to allow an instant recharge.[2] In other words, through a constant supply of sugar, or glucose, bio batteries are able to continuously keep themselves charged without an external power supply.

Last edited by Exocet5; 06-13-2018 at 9:52 AM..
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Old 06-13-2018, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocet5 View Post
If the combat exoskeleton developed for this thing is battery powered, the rate at which battery tech is progressing is something to pay attention to not unlike Moore's Law (i.e the rate of CPU processing power doubles every 2 year).
There's a legitimate hard limit on the energy density of chemical storage; modern batteries are already very close to this. Even the very best efficiency you might achieve in chemical batteries would be inferior to an internal combustion system because burning fuel breathes some of the chemical enrgy in and it dumps all the mass when the energy is extracted.

Superconducting batteries could surpass this, but there isn't a practical way to do superconducting energy storage without cryogenics, and cryo is really fragile and is a maintenance nightmare.

My answer to the question is a magnum large-bore semi-auto rifle using DGS bullets; you could mill the round noses to spitzer points if you really wanted to optimize.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:42 AM
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Barrett 50
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Old 06-13-2018, 3:14 PM
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And ya, "phased plasma rifle in the 30 watt range" would be my instant go to if available.
40.
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Old 06-13-2018, 3:25 PM
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Semi serious thought provoking topic.

Let's say its 2037 and you are in a close quarters battle (< 75 yards) vs a new type of bad guy: cyborgs.



I call my Pastor!


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Old 06-13-2018, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jwkincal View Post
There's a legitimate hard limit on the energy density of chemical storage; modern batteries are already very close to this. Even the very best efficiency you might achieve in chemical batteries would be inferior to an internal combustion system because burning fuel breathes some of the chemical enrgy in and it dumps all the mass when the energy is extracted.
Who says the power source would need to be a battery?
Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators have been used since the early days of the space program. That is how the Voyager probes are still active after over 40 years, without enough sunlight to power solar panels. That was the "nuclear furnace" on the Lunar Module referenced in the movie Apollo 13.
Cyborgs or bots working for an AI entity that are battling humans are not going to care about some radiation being emitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-...tric_generator
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