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  #1  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:08 AM
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Default hickok45 supports banning bump stocks

Like all idiots, they eventually show their true colors. Hickok45 has now done so. He shoots full auto weapons himself but doesn't like bump-fire stocks. Full-auto weapons are allowed in Nevada. A bump-fire stock is irrelevant.

I support the civilian ownership of full-auto weapons, so bump fire stocks are not a concern for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickok45

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...d=264641617269

Well, I suppose I'll pick up a few extra "haters" about this, as well as people who think I'm supporting the NRA ONLY because they support us.
Even though John has not totally agreed with me this week, I've been making the comment all week how crazy it is that something most serious shooters couldn't care less about is such a point of focus, being used to demonize all gun owners. I'm assuming the NRA gave this issue very serious consideration, and like me, decided that these bump stocks, which did not even exist ten years ago, are not something worth "falling on our swords" over. There are WAY more important battles down the road.
Also, guess what; don't tell the gun haters, but this was a stroke of genius. It doesn't take a genius to see what was coming anyway, regardless of who wants to feel smart about never "compromising."
Many of you will not agree with me, but all of us need to make sure we continue contacting our representatives and gun rights organizations. Make your voice heard and let them know where you stand on all these issues. They all work for us.
My guess is that the biggest NRA critics on this issue will be the folks "riding in the wagon," and not even holding a membership card. It's just the nature of human beings.




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  #2  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:14 AM
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What's next - a ban on light triggers? Banning a loose hold on the gun? Because with a light trigger and the right hold, you can bump fire real nice without a bump fire stock. Bump fire was a thing long before the stock.

These fools are arguing against semi auto rifles and they can't even see it. Slippery slope, here we come...
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Old 10-06-2017, 8:19 AM
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And right on queue, here is Feinstein doing exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.mssblog.com/2017/10/05/fe...ggers-illegal/

Quote:
Except as provided in paragraph (2), on and after the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank, a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun.
That sure sounds like a short reset trigger would qualify, and over-travel stop probably also would be illegal, unless they were shipped from the factory.
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:30 AM
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The problem is giving that inch............................
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Old 10-06-2017, 8:31 AM
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I wish you guys weren't so hard on Hickok45. He has a point, slidefire stocks are not worth "falling on a sword" for, especially when slidefire stocks can be used as a bargaining chip for passing national reciprocity or SHARE. Seriously, if we want to see republicans maintain their seats in the house and senate, they have to AT LEAST pretend to care about what the left is screeching.

But ultimately, Hickock should have just stayed quiet. There is a time and place for everything, and unfortunately, he rose his voice in a conversation he had no business participating in.
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Old 10-06-2017, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gogohopper View Post
The problem is giving that inch............................
yup.
Let them ban a stock and it will be easy to go after any after market accessory like a pistol grip that makes it more comfortable to shoot (in their eyes "quicker" or accelerate firing).

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Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
+1 I'm in this camp. I don't see a need for bumpfire. I'd rather give it up for gaining something back in return, like national reciprocity/roster issues...or at minimum, quieting further legislative action.
Some people may not give a sh*t about those stocks but with the dems track record they cant be trusted so no reason to give them a ledge to stand on.
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Shackleferd View Post
I wish you guys weren't so hard on Hickok45. He has a point, slidefire stocks are not worth "falling on a sword" for, especially when slidefire stocks can be used as a bargaining chip for passing national reciprocity or SHARE. Seriously, if we want to see republicans maintain their seats in the house and senate, they have to AT LEAST pretend to care about what the left is screeching.

But ultimately, Hickock should have just stayed quiet. There is a time and place for everything, and unfortunately, he rose his voice in a conversation he had no business participating in.

+1 I'm in this camp. I don't see a need for bumpfire. I'd rather give it up for gaining something back in return, like national reciprocity/roster issues...or at minimum, quieting further legislative action.
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Old 10-06-2017, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Shackleferd View Post
I wish you guys weren't so hard on Hickok45. He has a point, slidefire stocks are not worth "falling on a sword" for, especially when slidefire stocks can be used as a bargaining chip for passing national reciprocity or SHARE. Seriously, if we want to see republicans maintain their seats in the house and senate, they have to AT LEAST pretend to care about what the left is screeching.

But ultimately, Hickock should have just stayed quiet. There is a time and place for everything, and unfortunately, he rose his voice in a conversation he had no business participating in.
Because it is more fun to eat our own?
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:42 AM
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Are bumps stocks already banned in California?
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Are bumps stocks already banned in California?

Yes.
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2017, 9:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Den60 View Post
Yes.
Explains why I haven't see or heard of them until now. And all these idiots are going to the mat defending them here in "Cal"guns because....???? Cant be because they dont want them taken away... LMAO.
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2017, 9:17 AM
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It is not about a need for anything on a gun. It is about the gun not being the source of evil.

Once you start agreeing with the logic that something on a gun makes it evil you have already stepped onto the wrong path.

And why did bump or slide fire stocks came into existence? Regulation, wasn't it?
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2017, 9:23 AM
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There is just no good argument in defense of bump fire stocks. They aren't practical in any type of home defense situation. They aren't anything other than "fun" range toys. They aren't needed for a firearm to function unlike ammo and magazines. I just don't see how anybody can expect to put a strong argument for keeping them legal. I personally don't care if they keep selling them, I am just being realistic.
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Old 10-06-2017, 9:23 AM
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Never had, and still have, no interest in a bump-stock, slide fire, binary trigger, etc.
I also have no interest in banning or regulating them.
The NFA is unconstitutional (shall not be infringed)

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  #15  
Old 10-06-2017, 9:51 AM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Explains why I haven't see or heard of them until now. And all these idiots are going to the mat defending them here in "Cal"guns because....???? Cant be because they dont want them taken away... LMAO.
I think the issue is more about the principle that the Gov shouldn't be dictating the minutae of our lives and how we choose to exercise our rights. I don't agree with banning slidefire stocks but the move by the NRA is excellent political 4D chess. BWiese made an excellent post on why this is in the 2A forum, for anyone interested.
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:04 AM
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Meh, I still like Hickok45 and I will still support the NRA.

The fact of the matter is the regressive antigun left is multiplying much faster than we are and spreading their craziness deeper into every state. Its only a matter of time, maybe 1 generation before they have complete control of all branches of the government and when that happens the 2A will be completely erased and no guns, not bolt guns, single-shot guns, 22lr, air guns, will be legal. Its simply a matter of time.

We already live in pretty much a police state its only going to get worse. Most Americans have decided that as a country we are not responsible enough to have basic freedom and liberty and are willing to trade it away for the illusion of security by complete government control. It ls the future. Enjoy what little freedom we have left because its days are numbered.

Last edited by Tere_Hanges; 10-06-2017 at 10:19 AM..
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  #17  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:17 AM
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Well bout to have a run on match triggers here soon. Bump fire stocks are probably sold out.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:26 AM
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Better that this gets banned than semi autos or magazines. Who cares? I can bump fire without a stupid stock attached to my rifle anyway.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:34 AM
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i support Hicock45. so toll away.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:39 AM
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One of the stupidest things they ever made for an AR and now everyone's crying about a Ban on it. Boo hoo!
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:17 AM
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So, if they outlaw bump fire stocks, what's keeping someone from just bump firing without it?
Have you seen Jerry Miculek? He can shoot a revolver like a machine gun....
He just uses a special accessory....a finger!
I think any of us could learn to do the same...maybe not as accurate as Jerry.

I can't remember which politician was on the news, but he said your kidding yourself if you think all we need to do is outlaw theses bump stocks.

If ATF says they are legal, then what's the problem?

Of course here in California we have different rules regarding these things.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2017, 11:30 AM
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Nothing, ARDude. A lot of people have this burning perception, though, that giving anything up (even if its inconsequential) is the beginning of the end. Personally, I think supporting the Bump Stock Ban is ingenious. It throws a bone to the Brady Bunch; it doesn't harm our sport/interests; and it could give us some political traction later on when REALLY damaging legislation is introduced - such as a ban on all semiautos.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:32 AM
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Here's a point some of you seem to be missing. Legally acquired bump stocks, full auto weapons and other accessories that increase the rate of fire of an otherwise legal weapon allow an idiot to inflict a lot more damage before first responders can deal with the perp. From the viewpoint of the public at large, your insistence on not banning them means your right to a thrill at the gun range is more important than the public's safety.

Not everyone wants to go around armed to the teeth all the time. I'm willing to take my chances with shooters who have small magazines and limited rate of fire, but why should I or anyone else have to worry about deranged people like Paddock having access to what is essentially an automatic weapon?

Oh yeah, before I forget. Las Vegas shatters the myth that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Can you imagine how much worse things might have been if just a few people inside that venue had guns and started shooting in the midst of all the confusion?

Gun owners have a powerful lobby and lots of money, but if the public gets pissed off enough, they can swamp the NRA at the ballot box. Sometimes a strategic retreat is better than getting overrun.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
Here's a point some of you seem to be missing. Legally acquired bump stocks, full auto weapons and other accessories that increase the rate of fire of an otherwise legal weapon allow an idiot to inflict a lot more damage before first responders can deal with the perp. From the viewpoint of the public at large, your insistence on not banning them means your right to a thrill at the gun range is more important than the public's safety.

Not everyone wants to go around armed to the teeth all the time. I'm willing to take my chances with shooters who have small magazines and limited rate of fire, but why should I or anyone else have to worry about deranged people like Paddock having access to what is essentially an automatic weapon?

Oh yeah, before I forget. Las Vegas shatters the myth that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Can you imagine how much worse things might have been if just a few people inside that venue had guns and started shooting in the midst of all the confusion?

Gun owners have a powerful lobby and lots of money, but if the public gets pissed off enough, they can swamp the NRA at the ballot box. Sometimes a strategic retreat is better than getting overrun.
Jack, Jack... you don't need a bump stock to effect rapid fire. You need your trigger finger, no heavy hold on the pistol grip, and a gingerly applied hold on the forend. You will become your own bump stock. You Tube it. Whether that device is banned or not will not stop John Doe from doing this. And now the cats out of the bag since the Vegas incident.
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  #25  
Old 10-06-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
Here's a point some of you seem to be missing. Legally acquired bump stocks, full auto weapons and other accessories that increase the rate of fire of an otherwise legal weapon allow an idiot to inflict a lot more damage before first responders can deal with the perp. From the viewpoint of the public at large, your insistence on not banning them means your right to a thrill at the gun range is more important than the public's safety.

Not everyone wants to go around armed to the teeth all the time. I'm willing to take my chances with shooters who have small magazines and limited rate of fire, but why should I or anyone else have to worry about deranged people like Paddock having access to what is essentially an automatic weapon?

Oh yeah, before I forget. Las Vegas shatters the myth that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Can you imagine how much worse things might have been if just a few people inside that venue had guns and started shooting in the midst of all the confusion?

Gun owners have a powerful lobby and lots of money, but if the public gets pissed off enough, they can swamp the NRA at the ballot box. Sometimes a strategic retreat is better than getting overrun.
CCW's doesn't cover situations where the bad person has the high ground and distance. CCW's mostly keep situations to where the bad person is within 50 yards and on the same height plane. i mean you are concealing pistols, which are close distance weapons, not rifles. and aren't most CCW classes trained that if you can remove yourself from the situation, then do so. only pull the gun as last resort?

now if CCW also included rifles then maybe i can see how one can claim CCW's/good guy with gun should have stopped this but didn't.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy's View Post
One of the stupidest things they ever made for an AR and now everyone's crying about a Ban on it. Boo hoo!
Go back and read the proposed Feinstein law. They will go after more than bump stocks. And bump firing has been a thing long before a special stock came around.

This is about banning semi auto rifles. I don't mind throwing the slide fire on the sacrficial fire, but they wont stop there. Next is 3-gun triggers, then all drop in triggers, then short resets, over travel stops. They will never stop.

Someone above said it but it should be repeated. You give them an inch, and they will take a mile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr0rSaFgZE

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Old 10-06-2017, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceGirlsHusband View Post
Nothing, ARDude. A lot of people have this burning perception, though, that giving anything up (even if its inconsequential) is the beginning of the end. Personally, I think supporting the Bump Stock Ban is ingenious. It throws a bone to the Brady Bunch; it doesn't harm our sport/interests; and it could give us some political traction later on when REALLY damaging legislation is introduced - such as a ban on all semiautos.
I totally understand what you are saying. I personally have no interest in a bump stock. But I don't see how outlawing an accessory that is legal (in most States), would solve anything. Especially since bump firing can be done without the bump stock.

I get that you think that giving up on the stock issue "might" gain us something. I personally don't think so. I think they will always want more.

Now if it were legal for me, and affordable in this State to acquire full auto weapons...I can think of a couple of firearms I would like.
I'm sure I am not alone...
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
Oh yeah, before I forget. Las Vegas shatters the myth that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Can you imagine how much worse things might have been if just a few people inside that venue had guns and started shooting in the midst of all the confusion?
The good guys with the guns in this case was the SWAT team.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:25 PM
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You give em an inch and then they want a mile. Slippery slope indeed.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:42 PM
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What many seem to be missing here is that the NRA's tactic is to have the ATF classify the bump stop instead of having Congress make a new law banning it. They know that if Congress starts a new law to ban these stupid stocks, that really do not serve a purpose anyway, they will include much more in the bill.

Also, ATF classifying these as "full auto" does not make them illegal, just much harder to obtain.
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Old 10-06-2017, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by brian5271 View Post
What many seem to be missing here is that the NRA's tactic is to have the ATF classify the bump stop instead of having Congress make a new law banning it. They know that if Congress starts a new law to ban these stupid stocks, that really do not serve a purpose anyway, they will include much more in the bill.

Also, ATF classifying these as "full auto" does not make them illegal, just much harder to obtain.
This bears repeating. Trump and the NRA are taking the, "reclassify them under current law" approach which may head off the horrendous language from Feinstein quoted upthread (which would actually ban JM, as he is a combination of parts that functions to increase the rate of fire of a firearm.)

Although I don't think you are correct; it would actually make them illegal as they were manufactured after 1986, and the mechanism of action would be calling the stocks themselves machine guns.
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Old 10-06-2017, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Go back and read the proposed Feinstein law. They will go after more than bump stocks. And bump firing has been a thing long before a special stock came around.

This is about banning semi auto rifles. I don't mind throwing the slide fire on the sacrficial fire, but they wont stop there. Next is 3-gun triggers, then all drop in triggers, then short resets, over travel stops. They will never stop.

Someone above said it but it should be repeated. You give them an inch, and they will take a mile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr0rSaFgZE


This is the issue. And 100% correct. They won't ever stop.
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Old 10-06-2017, 2:31 PM
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The left doesn't compromise, they won't abolish the roster, all the know how to do is lie and steal.

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Old 10-06-2017, 2:48 PM
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meet the new colt 6920 with its match grade 50 pound trigger pull.
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Old 10-06-2017, 4:45 PM
Pardini Pardini is offline
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Maybe law against mass shootings would stop mass shootings. How about a mass shooting enhancement on current law? May also need to make it illegal to commit suicide after committing a mass shooting.

We all know that banning bumpfire stocks and trigger actuators is as ridiculous and ineffective as the above, but politicians that stand against such a ban, it may be political suicide that's hurts us more than it helps us in the long run.

Either way, we are Frucked on this one.
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Old 10-06-2017, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPimping View Post
You give em an inch and then they want a mile. Slippery slope indeed.
With Democrats, it is in their nature.

One reason gun owners in this state are in the cluster**** today, incrementalism.

Those that gradually accept every little piece of legislation, however small. It all gradually adds up to the environment we live in today in CA. There are gun owners who have no problem with 10 rd mags. Those who don't mind the roster too much because there are still some decent ones to buy. Those who never fired an AR without a bullet button, they almost think it is a standard item. Those who think registering an "assault weapon" is not so bad.

The frog gradually cooking to death.
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  #37  
Old 10-06-2017, 5:33 PM
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So what happens when "they" realize there is no difference in rate-of-fire without the bump stock?

They will say: "oh, oops, we now realize semi-auto rate-of-fire is too fast so that's now illegal."

As others have stated: slippery slope!
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  #38  
Old 10-06-2017, 6:11 PM
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Yup, the couple of posts above summarize my thinking pretty well. I am not even an AR guy, I have never used a bump fire stock, but I can realize that giving in that one little thing simply falls in line with all the other things someone at some point gave in on. And so it will continue. So far it has only gone one way - restriction.
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Old 10-06-2017, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
It is not about a need for anything on a gun. It is about the gun not being the source of evil.

Once you start agreeing with the logic that something on a gun makes it evil you have already stepped onto the wrong path.

And why did bump or slide fire stocks came into existence? Regulation, wasn't it?
I agree.

What a lot of people are missing is that conservatives are the most genius, innovative, spectacular people on the face of the earth. We're problem solvers an go getters. Look at how many answers we had to the oppressions of the oligarchs of Kalifornistan to our 2A rights! Look at the bravery and selflessness we have, can, or will show WITHOUT effort or second thought.

Ones true freedom is self reliance. That is what their actual issue is with us. It's not about guns, it's about our ability to live without big government, without them. They know it and that's why they're trying to enslave us.

As far as I'm concerned; "Give them NOTHING.. but take from them EVERYTHING." -Leonidas 300

Also what gogohopper said; Give them that inch..............
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Last edited by uncommonsense; 10-06-2017 at 7:00 PM..
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  #40  
Old 10-06-2017, 6:51 PM
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We never had these gun problems until rifles such as got popular with citizens. Truth! No I'm not anti AR or any thing else.
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