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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2018, 1:01 PM
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Default Juggernaut Tactical AR mod...

Picked one up yesterday, hadn't heard of it before. Guy at the gun shop had an AR set up with it...pretty slick I thought.

Anyone know if this satisfies the requirements to avoid registration? Saw the other thread on it but it didn't really answer the question. Or is it again a matter of, again, we don't know because the California DOJ refuses to give us anything specific as to these workarounds.
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2018, 1:38 PM
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Sweet! That is a quicker mag change than with a bullet button.
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Old 05-20-2018, 3:25 PM
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Itís super popular right now for rifles. Turnerís and Ammo Bros is selling rifles with it. It likely passed both their lawyers interpretation.

I want to know if they are a valid way of outfitting AR Pistols for a way of complying.
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Old 05-20-2018, 3:50 PM
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33.3 tactical looks like the best option to me only because you keep the lrbho option. If the hellfighter kit did this it’d be my#1 pick. Just my 2 cents which is really worth a penny.
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Old 05-20-2018, 4:04 PM
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The rear pin is good but their mag lock system doesnít let you keep the bolt catch. I did 33.3 calcatch on front and juggernaut rear pin coming in the mail to replace my regular takedown pin
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Old 05-20-2018, 4:19 PM
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Ya, I like the 333 in front and Juggernaut is rear as well.

Is this a way of not having to register an ar pistol that was DROSíd as single shot and is semi.
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Old 05-20-2018, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Picked one up yesterday, hadn't heard of it before. Guy at the gun shop had an AR set up with it...pretty slick I thought.

Anyone know if this satisfies the requirements to avoid registration? Saw the other thread on it but it didn't really answer the question. Or is it again a matter of, again, we don't know because the California DOJ refuses to give us anything specific as to these workarounds.
This:

Quote:
we don't know because the California DOJ refuses to give us anything specific
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Old 05-20-2018, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
Was very interested in buying just the rear pin, couldnít justify buying maglock when I already have 33.3
Whatís the price for just the rear pin
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2018, 4:30 AM
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I started this thread hoping to avoid your derailing of it like you did the other one.

Asking about the Juggernaut mod...

Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
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Last edited by BluNorthern; 05-21-2018 at 4:33 AM..
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2018, 4:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
I started this thread hoping to avoid your derailing of it like you did the other one.

Asking about the Juggernaut mod...


Agree. Not great businesses acumen above...

The Juggernaut is pretty damn nice with the 333...
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2018, 5:11 AM
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Default Juggernaut Tactical AR mod...

My bad. Iíll delete


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Last edited by protohyp; 05-21-2018 at 5:15 AM..
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2018, 5:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesa Defense View Post
Agree. Not great businesses acumen above...

The Juggernaut is pretty damn nice with the 333...
Does the JT rear and 33.3 front allow you to drop the mag when the bolt is back? Or is there a bit of modification thatís needed
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Old 05-21-2018, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank_5.0 View Post
Does the JT rear and 33.3 front allow you to drop the mag when the bolt is back? Or is there a bit of modification thatís needed
I think the 333 has 2 options, one is the bolt stays back and one the bolt is forward after the mag is empty
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Old 05-21-2018, 9:24 AM
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I have heard of the Juggernaut Tactical option and want to get one when I can, but have never heard of the 333 option. I will check it out too.

Thanks for the info.
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  #15  
Old 05-24-2018, 5:26 AM
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After more research I ordered the 33.3 tactical calcatch unmodified and will pair it with the Juggernaut rear pin.

I don't like the idea of the bolt carrier not locking back.

We'll see how it goes.
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  #16  
Old 05-24-2018, 8:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
After more research I ordered the 33.3 tactical calcatch unmodified and will pair it with the Juggernaut rear pin.

I don't like the idea of the bolt carrier not locking back.

We'll see how it goes.
Let us know if the 33.3 catch will allow the mag release to function if you activate the JT latch with the bolt locked back.
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2018, 8:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mute View Post
Let us know if the 33.3 catch will allow the mag release to function if you activate the JT latch with the bolt locked back.
That's the concern I have. Heard about bolt catching on magazine lips and people filing on them...i want something that works as an unmodified AR.
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2018, 9:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mute View Post
Let us know if the 33.3 catch will allow the mag release to function if you activate the JT latch with the bolt locked back.
Neither the Kingpin or the Juggernaught rear pin will allow the upper to hinge open enough to change mags when the carrier is locked back.

That being the case, I actually prefer the lack of an automatic bolt catch as it allows you to reload when the mag runs empty without HAVING to manually activate the bolt release before you can hinge the upper open to change mags.

The better way is to do a tactical reload before the chamber runs dry though because then you don't have to cycle the carrier to load a cartridge from the new mag.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:02 AM
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Does the 33.3 tactical work on an ambi bolt catch lower?
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Neither the Kingpin or the Juggernaught rear pin will allow the upper to hinge open enough to change mags when the carrier is locked back.

That being the case, I actually prefer the lack of an automatic bolt catch as it allows you to reload when the mag runs empty without HAVING to manually activate the bolt release before you can hinge the upper open to change mags.

The better way is to do a tactical reload before the chamber runs dry though because then you don't have to cycle the carrier to load a cartridge from the new mag.
Protohypís pin allows to drop the mag with the bolt locked back but itís with armaglock. If it sold seperately and would work with 33.3 id buy it
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:22 AM
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Hey guys. I have the 33.3 calcatch and the king pin installed right now. It doesn't not allow you to drop the mag with the bolt held back. However, if you drop the bolt and press the button it has plenty of room to drop the mag. I'm wondering if someone wants to try working the 33.3 cal catch to release the mag with bolt hold back when the kingpin/ juggernaut pin is pressed.


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  #22  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:29 PM
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ltn View Post
Hey guys. I have the 33.3 calcatch and the king pin installed right now. It doesn't not allow you to drop the mag with the bolt held back. However, if you drop the bolt and press the button it has plenty of room to drop the mag. I'm wondering if someone wants to try working the 33.3 cal catch to release the mag with bolt hold back when the kingpin/ juggernaut pin is pressed.


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Old 05-24-2018, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_5.0 View Post
Protohypís pin allows to drop the mag with the bolt locked back
I would like to see that in person.
Maybe it happens with a special carrier or a really sloppy fitting carrier, but not with in-spec parts.
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Old 05-24-2018, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I would like to see that in person.
Maybe it happens with a special carrier or a really sloppy fitting carrier, but not with in-spec parts.
It can work if you shave enough material off the AR Maglock where it slides in between the upper and lower. Even with the minimal amount of opening with a locked back bolt, it can work but it takes a bit of finagling.
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Old 05-24-2018, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mute View Post
It can work if you shave enough material off the AR Maglock where it slides in between the upper and lower. Even with the minimal amount of opening with a locked back bolt, it can work but it takes a bit of finagling.


AR Maglock already did that work for you with the Gen 2 kits


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Old 05-24-2018, 8:28 PM
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Was about to order a couple juggernaut tactical sets, only because i dont like the togglinf and then retoggling to hing it closed of the 33.3 setup. Just discovered videos of the kingpin setup but like others mentioned, the fact they recommend making sure the upper and lower fittings arent set super tight leaves me questionkng it when i run Mega arms as well as new frontier setups that are perfectly tight.

You guys mixing and matching parts out of these expensive kits?! Dang thats getting expensive.

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Old 05-24-2018, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strykeback View Post
Was about to order a couple juggernaut tactical sets, only because i dont like the togglinf and then retoggling to hing it closed of the 33.3 setup. Just discovered videos of the kingpin setup but like others mentioned, the fact they recommend making sure the upper and lower fittings arent set super tight leaves me questionkng it when i run Mega arms as well as new frontier setups that are perfectly tight.

You guys mixing and matching parts out of these expensive kits?! Dang thats getting expensive.

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Old 05-24-2018, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I would like to see that in person.
Maybe it happens with a special carrier or a really sloppy fitting carrier, but not with in-spec parts.
I did it with an ARMaglock and Juggernaut and so did a fellow shooter after I recommended the mod to him.

It takes fine tuning to get it right but it works.
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  #30  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mute View Post
It can work if you shave enough material off the AR Maglock where it slides in between the upper and lower. Even with the minimal amount of opening with a locked back bolt, it can work but it takes a bit of finagling.
I installed a Gen2 ARmaglock kit with the kingpin the other day.
Even though the armaglock is VERY THIN, it was not enough to slip in between the upper and lower with the bolt locked back.
As I said before, you need a very sloppy fitting carrier and buffer tube for it to work as the parts come.
Further shaving of the Gen2 ARmaglock would make the ARmaglock easy to break just with finger pressure.
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Old 07-04-2018, 2:52 PM
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Let us know if the 33.3 catch will allow the mag release to function if you activate the JT latch with the bolt locked back.
No it won't.

If locked back and the pin pressed....upper and lower 'open'...the 333 unmodified I have allows the bolt to slam forward.

I've had no issues using PMags not working as they should with the 333 unmodified bolt release.

With the pin engaged...upper and lower slightly separated...pulling the trigger 'fires' the weapon.

California DOJ legal? I still don't know.
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Old 07-04-2018, 3:59 PM
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Several "fixed mag" products to chose from

I went with the ARMaglock Gen 2 w/Kingpin. Plug & play install. Have shot hundreds of rounds with it without any issues using off the shelf metal or poly mags

My friend tossed his Juggernaut pin for the Kingpin and uses a CalCatch for the mag release

I did not want any device that eliminated the bolt lock/release to install the mag release

and to add...I just experienced a double feed jam and the upper would not separate even with the Kingpin pulled out. I may have been able to force it but chose instead to simply unscrew the alan head screw on the ARMaglock to drop the mag and clear the jam.

So think about the fixed mag release devices as how you would remove it to release the mag if you had to....with some you are f'ed


Below is from the ARMaglock site (no I have no alliance with that company, just bought their product)

With few exceptions, competing products to the AR MAGLOCK have an inherent and critical safety issue!
MOST other systems DO NOT allow for the fixed magazine kit to be removed during a double feed firing malfunction in which a live cartridge is jammed in the firing chamber. This is because the bolt carrier group is locked back into the butt stock buffer tube, which then doesn’t allow for the receivers to be separated (open the action), nor can the magazine be removed (because it’s locked), thus not allowing the user to clear the malfunction / live round. This is VERY dangerous.
This is a HUGE safety issue and a critical liability for any entity selling or installing these fixed magazine locking systems, including the OEM’s, retailers and manufacturers.
Many of the OEM’s at the 2017 Shot Show mentioned this concern, and it’s one of the primary reasons most have chosen the AR MAGLOCK system as their solution for California.
The AR MAGLOCK allows you to use the hex wrench to remove the lock kit thus removing the magazine so you can safely clear the loaded rounds from the chamber.




Last edited by 4GLOCK30; 07-04-2018 at 4:05 PM..
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  #33  
Old 07-04-2018, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_5.0 View Post
The rear pin is good but their mag lock system doesnít let you keep the bolt catch. I did 33.3 calcatch on front and juggernaut rear pin coming in the mail to replace my regular takedown pin
You have to ditch the bolt catch and if you aren't careful with the rear pin the detent can pop out and then it's a huge pain to deal with.

Definitely would not recommend this system, the Cross Armory with quick pins is a much better way to go.
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Old 07-04-2018, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
simply unscrew the alan head screw on the ARMaglock to drop the mag
be very careful, some of us are of the opinion that ARMaglock's statement is very misleading. By the letter of the law, if you can remove the magazine without disassembling the action, it is an AW. Period. We all know "safety" has nothing to do with the law, doublefeeds or not.
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Old 07-04-2018, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
With the pin engaged...upper and lower slightly separated...pulling the trigger 'fires' the weapon.

California DOJ legal? I still don't know.
It stands to reason that "disassembly of the action" should preclude "function of the action".

This is the logic applied to guns that fold in half like the Keltec SU16 or most of the break-open survival rifles like the Springfield M6.
None of these guns can be fired in their folded state.
Because they can not be fired, the DOJ does not apply the 26" length rule to them and consider them as SBR's, even though they are less than 26" long while folded.
They have to be folded back into their normal operating length, which is longer than 26" before they can mechanically be fired.
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Old 07-04-2018, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post

With the pin engaged...upper and lower slightly separated...pulling the trigger 'fires' the weapon.
What happens if you do this with a loaded mag? Does the BCG cycle?

Here is another test that doesnt require firing it. Put the Kingpin in the open position. Lock the BCG back with the bolt catch. Slap the release. Does the BCG go home?
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