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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-31-2013, 5:42 PM
KLF KLF is offline
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Default "NRA vs. America," a Rollingstone politics article critical of the NRA

Hi all!

I generally enjoy and respect Rollingstone's politics reporting. Here is a link the January 31, 2013 article by Tom Dickinson. I believe it's worth a read. You may or may not agree with this but it's out in the popular press and it's worth your attention.

http://rol.st/14wEi90

Carry on!

KLF
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2013, 5:55 PM
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They seem to forget that the NRA is not some faceless entity. The NRA is the face of Americans voicing their opinion.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:06 PM
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What did you expect? It's a DEMOCRAT party rag thru and thru.My daughter takes it and i read a little of it now and then.a very leftist party rag, i'd would not be suprized if they put the hammer and sickle on the cover.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:08 PM
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Fortunately for us Rolling Stone lacks the pull it used to have. Thanks to video game developers and TV the new generation has a love affair with firearms. Ask any kid in their 20s why they bought an AR and I guarantee you 9 out of 10 times the answer is "call of duty". I wouldn't necessarily say that this means that Generation Y seems more conservative, just that my observation is they love guns... I've certainly done my part and introduced a lot of them to the second amendment on gun ranges and to date have no complaints heh!
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:14 PM
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Millions and millons of Americans.

And counting.

The NRA is not some corporation or the sole property of Wayne LaPierre.

The left and the media forget that on purpose.
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:14 PM
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You owe me 15 minutes. I suppose some will be along to defend that hatchet job.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KLF View Post
Hi all!

I generally enjoy and respect Rollingstone's politics reporting. Here is a link the January 31, 2013 article by Tom Dickinson. I believe it's worth a read. You may or may not agree with this but it's out in the popular press and it's worth your attention.

http://rol.st/14wEi90

Carry on!

KLF
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Old 02-01-2013, 7:35 AM
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You owe me 15 minutes. I suppose some will be along to defend that hatchet job.
And there it is.
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Considering the facts of how easily safes can be defeated, a park bench offers the same amount of protection.
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PE card? LOL! Any green kid out of engineering school can get that with a few years of experience.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:16 PM
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****ing trash article. I even read part of it...
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:22 PM
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Hey guys the NRA has a time machine. No duty to retreat see John Bad Elk v. US
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:43 PM
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Those of you on the fence about joining the NRA should read this and understand why it's important to do so.
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:00 PM
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The fact that there are 80+ million gun owners and only 4.25 million are in the NRA is totally unacceptable.
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Old 01-31-2013, 8:17 PM
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all of their political reporting is terrible imo.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:31 PM
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This article is in the public, but it's not worth the read. It's the same tired crap bemoaning the power of the NRA and all its money and power. I almost stopped reading after the subtitle, but understanding that this is an article with a targeted audience, I cut a little slack and kept going hoping that it was just subtitular hyperbole; unfortunately, the entire article is more of the same.

For the condensed version, just watch one of these damned Piers Morgan "debates."

ETA: I feel like the purpose of the article was to gin up support for people to donate to gun control advocates. It becomes especially illuminating when he accuses Wayne La Pierre of, and describes the subversion of the NRA and how it's tricking the membership into this massive money-making conspiracy. It was almost like a I reached a point where the article was metatextually mirroring itself. It'd be an interesting exercise in literature were it not so politically driven and blatantly reliant on inflammatory language.

To the the writer's credit, I really did think it was interesting how the article reads like it's doing exactly the same thing it's describing. It's inspiring how starkly (if unintentionally) he's able to depict the divide in the USA about firearms.

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  #14  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:39 PM
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Interesting... "The NRA vs. America"... The way I see it, I am the NRA and America.
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:51 PM
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Poorly written article and utter nonsense IMO. Seems like another author is not sy at all to stand on the graves of others to push an agenda or sell a story. Absolute trash in a garbage magazine.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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So if you do ban me you will hear from my lawyer as to why you think you can violate peoples civil rights
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Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2013, 9:33 PM
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Rolling Stone can't even publish decent articles on the music. Why would I want to read their crap about the NRA? No thanks.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:14 PM
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Well folks, I'm glad some of you read it even if it seems none of you like it. It's easy to say Rollingstone simply doesn't matter. Maybe, but I know many who take Rollingstone seriously. I've also seen many cites and points to articles from far less-mainstream sources. When people are going after my rights I read and listen to what they have to say. Anyhow, on Page 3, the author writes about something called "The Tiahrt Amendment." I heard about this on Terry Gross' NPR show, as well as disperate other sources. I suppose I'll see many gruff blurts from people, but it would be gratifying if someone added to this. To me, this seems like an effort to completely undermine a body of facts that are commonly cited in this cultural debate. I believe I know the facts, but what of this movement to write those facts off as methodologically flawed and therefore without foundation? What of this? Is this a thing?
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:20 PM
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NRA vs America? What do they thing the NRA is composed of, Russians?
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:47 PM
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I stopped reading at the sub-headline, where it says "military grade".
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  #20  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:31 AM
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The Tiahrt Amendment was a provision attached to a 2006 spending bill that limits the ways gun related data can be used, specifically, requiring certain background checks for guns be destroyed within 24 hours, limiting the access to ATF data and statistics, including those of guns lost/stolen from FFL's, to criminal investigations.
Probably one of the only laws regarding or increasing the privacy of a citizen passed in the last 13 years.
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  #21  
Old 02-01-2013, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviously a Plant View Post
The Tiahrt Amendment was a provision attached to a 2006 spending bill that limits the ways gun related data can be used, specifically, requiring certain background checks for guns be destroyed within 24 hours, limiting the access to ATF data and statistics, including those of guns lost/stolen from FFL's, to criminal investigations.
Probably one of the only laws regarding or increasing the privacy of a citizen passed in the last 13 years.
Hey thanks! I appreciate your words. Useful. --KLF
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  #22  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:52 AM
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The comments are about 5 to 1 pro-gun.
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Old 02-01-2013, 1:04 AM
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"How the country’s biggest gun-rights group thwarts regulation and helps put military-grade weapons in the hands of killers"

No need to read past this point
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2013, 6:56 AM
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If the NRA were a true activist and true friend of gun owners, it would not have let California and New York and several other states pass stringent gun laws.

But the NRA did indeed let these states pass stringent gun laws. Why?

From the article:

>Much like elite funders of a major political party, these Golden Ringers enjoy top access to decision-makers at the NRA. Their interests, not the interest of the $35-a-year member, rule the roost. "They've got this base of true believers that they mail their magazines out to," says policy analyst Diaz. "But the NRA is really about serving this elite."

(CDF): Full disclosure: I used to be an NRA member. Before I joined, I feared they were just a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers, an organization that merely paid lip service to fighting gun laws.

I was correct. So I bailed.

I read American Rifleman every single month for three years. All they did was to publish hyperbole in their editorials. They would send me fund raising notes all the time.

What did they do with that money?

A true organization fighting stringent gun laws would not pay its leaders six figure salaries while gun owners have to get show ID to buy ammo.

Follow the money.

Nope. They're going to have to work MUCH HARDER to get another single cent from me.

CDFingers

Last edited by CDFingers; 02-01-2013 at 6:57 AM.. Reason: rented an italics machine for a bit
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Old 02-01-2013, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDFingers View Post
If the NRA were a true activist and true friend of gun owners, it would not have let California and New York and several other states pass stringent gun laws.

But the NRA did indeed let these states pass stringent gun laws. Why?

From the article:

>Much like elite funders of a major political party, these Golden Ringers enjoy top access to decision-makers at the NRA. Their interests, not the interest of the $35-a-year member, rule the roost. "They've got this base of true believers that they mail their magazines out to," says policy analyst Diaz. "But the NRA is really about serving this elite."

(CDF): Full disclosure: I used to be an NRA member. Before I joined, I feared they were just a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers, an organization that merely paid lip service to fighting gun laws.

I was correct. So I bailed.

I read American Rifleman every single month for three years. All they did was to publish hyperbole in their editorials. They would send me fund raising notes all the time.

What did they do with that money?

A true organization fighting stringent gun laws would not pay its leaders six figure salaries while gun owners have to get show ID to buy ammo.

Follow the money.

Nope. They're going to have to work MUCH HARDER to get another single cent from me.

CDFingers
The NRA does not "let" the states do anything. How do you expect the NRA to stop rabid Democrat leftist legislators from voting the way they want to? Your comment is either trolling or incredibly ignorant. Aren't you one of the Obamistas on here? Surprised you are still around spreading your BS.
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  #26  
Old 02-01-2013, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDinosaur View Post
The NRA does not "let" the states do anything. How do you expect the NRA to stop rabid Democrat leftist legislators from voting the way they want to? Your comment is either trolling or incredibly ignorant.
The guy votes for and supports Democrat-liberal gun grabbing politicians, then blames the NRA for being ineffective in its efforts to stop them from passing anti-gun laws.
This kind of lack of logical thinking just blows your mind away. And what's even worse, this guy gets paid with our tax money to educate indoctrinate the young generations.
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Old 02-01-2013, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDFingers View Post
If the NRA were a true activist and true friend of gun owners, it would not have let California and New York and several other states pass stringent gun laws.

But the NRA did indeed let these states pass stringent gun laws. Why?

From the article:

>Much like elite funders of a major political party, these Golden Ringers enjoy top access to decision-makers at the NRA. Their interests, not the interest of the $35-a-year member, rule the roost. "They've got this base of true believers that they mail their magazines out to," says policy analyst Diaz. "But the NRA is really about serving this elite."

(CDF): Full disclosure: I used to be an NRA member. Before I joined, I feared they were just a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers, an organization that merely paid lip service to fighting gun laws.

I was correct. So I bailed.

I read American Rifleman every single month for three years. All they did was to publish hyperbole in their editorials. They would send me fund raising notes all the time.

What did they do with that money?

A true organization fighting stringent gun laws would not pay its leaders six figure salaries while gun owners have to get show ID to buy ammo.

Follow the money.

Nope. They're going to have to work MUCH HARDER to get another single cent from me.

CDFingers
Your fear and feelings of inadequacy are almost palpable. Maybe that's why you are trolling so hard.

Your attacks on the NRA are absolute and obvious falsehoods and you most certainly know it. But you feel safe hiding behind a fake "screen name."

If you are going to make claims that are not true, at least be honest and list your name, address, phone number, and email address. I don't lie and I list all of those things.

If you believe what you are saying is true, you don't need to be afraid.

Paul
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  #28  
Old 02-03-2013, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDFingers View Post
If the NRA were a true activist and true friend of gun owners, it would not have let California and New York and several other states pass stringent gun laws.

But the NRA did indeed let these states pass stringent gun laws. Why?

From the article:

>Much like elite funders of a major political party, these Golden Ringers enjoy top access to decision-makers at the NRA. Their interests, not the interest of the $35-a-year member, rule the roost. "They've got this base of true believers that they mail their magazines out to," says policy analyst Diaz. "But the NRA is really about serving this elite."

(CDF): Full disclosure: I used to be an NRA member. Before I joined, I feared they were just a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers, an organization that merely paid lip service to fighting gun laws.

I was correct. So I bailed.

CDFingers
I've asked before and you didn't respond. Please provide evidence that the NRA is a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers to the detriment of gun owners. And why would the NRA then "let" CA and NY pass gun bans?

Secondly, and far less importantly, you seem perturbed that the NRA is about serviing the "elite." Please explain.
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Old 02-03-2013, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tankarian View Post
And what exactly did YOU do?
^This
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewalker View Post
CD, you sure do take every opportunity to run your mouth.
^This
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Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
You are such a special kind of stupid it needs it's own name.
^This
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
How about posting your "Responsible California Gun Owner" paper.
^This
Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
I suspect that this "paper" justifies all our neutered, banned or "unsafe" weapons idiocy.
^This
Quote:
Originally Posted by H Paul Payne View Post
Your attacks on the NRA are absolute and obvious falsehoods and you most certainly know it. But you feel safe hiding behind a fake "screen name."
^This
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankarian View Post
Your post is so idiotic, so full of fallacies and misinformation, it could easily take the first prize in a contest of idiotic, fallacious and misinforming Internet postings.
^This
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDFingers View Post
A true organization fighting stringent gun laws would not pay its leaders six figure salaries while gun owners have to get show ID to buy ammo.
CDFingers
And, I raise you. Do you have any clue about the salaries that not-for-profit organizations run. The school administrators are acting on an entity that is not-for-profit; it doesn't bother them to take home six figure salaries.

More over, most of the older union teachers would have a salary well above six figures if you factored in the ongoing accruals for their gold plated pensions and retiree medical benefits.

Further, why don't you take a look at the salaries being drawn at the top by Blue Cross/Blue Shield and the American Red Cross, which are, by in large, nonprofit entities. These salaries would make any salaries in the "gun lobby" look like chicken feed. I could go on all day and cite thousands of examples where not-for-profit entities compensate their leaders at salaries well above six figures.

This is just one ther example of your ignorance.
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Old 02-04-2013, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CDFingers
If the NRA were a true activist and true friend of gun owners, it would not have let California and New York and several other states pass stringent gun laws.

But the NRA did indeed let these states pass stringent gun laws. Why?

From the article:

>Much like elite funders of a major political party, these Golden Ringers enjoy top access to decision-makers at the NRA. Their interests, not the interest of the $35-a-year member, rule the roost. "They've got this base of true believers that they mail their magazines out to," says policy analyst Diaz. "But the NRA is really about serving this elite."

(CDF): Full disclosure: I used to be an NRA member. Before I joined, I feared they were just a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers, an organization that merely paid lip service to fighting gun laws.

I was correct. So I bailed.

CDFingers



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
I've asked before and you didn't respond. Please provide evidence that the NRA is a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers to the detriment of gun owners. [Edited to clarify: If the latter is true then] why would the NRA "let" CA and NY pass gun bans?

Secondly, and far less importantly, you seem perturbed that the NRA is about serviing the "elite." Please explain.
Still waiting for a response, CD.

Last edited by Ieyasu; 02-04-2013 at 9:35 PM..
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  #31  
Old 02-04-2013, 8:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Considering the facts of how easily safes can be defeated, a park bench offers the same amount of protection.
Quote:
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PE card? LOL! Any green kid out of engineering school can get that with a few years of experience.
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  #32  
Old 02-04-2013, 9:04 PM
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Still waiting for a response, CD.
You expect CDF to provide evidence or knowledge???

Good luck, you'll die of old age before that happens.

He is only here for the morbid comedy routine.

He is trying to exemplify the stupidity of those

among us by presenting the view of the typical liberal progressive

or Green Party drone.

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Old 02-04-2013, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDFingers View Post
If the NRA were a true activist and true friend of gun owners, it would not have let California and New York and several other states pass stringent gun laws.

But the NRA did indeed let these states pass stringent gun laws. Why?

From the article:

>Much like elite funders of a major political party, these Golden Ringers enjoy top access to decision-makers at the NRA. Their interests, not the interest of the $35-a-year member, rule the roost. "They've got this base of true believers that they mail their magazines out to," says policy analyst Diaz. "But the NRA is really about serving this elite."

(CDF): Full disclosure: I used to be an NRA member. Before I joined, I feared they were just a lobbying arm of gun manufacturers, an organization that merely paid lip service to fighting gun laws.

I was correct. So I bailed.

I read American Rifleman every single month for three years. All they did was to publish hyperbole in their editorials. They would send me fund raising notes all the time.

What did they do with that money?

A true organization fighting stringent gun laws would not pay its leaders six figure salaries while gun owners have to get show ID to buy ammo.

Follow the money.

Nope. They're going to have to work MUCH HARDER to get another single cent from me.

CDFingers

Seems to me I saw a certain Gun Control Senate hearing with a table and 5 chairs reserved for 5 witnesses. One of those chairs was reserved for the NRA. Nuff said.
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  #34  
Old 02-01-2013, 7:30 AM
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Makes me even more happy to be an NRA member when a worthless rag like Rolling Stones ( who reads that rag anyways) is bashing them....maybe they can have tea with Feinstein and talk about their mutual hatred for the NRA?
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Old 02-01-2013, 9:15 AM
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Makes me even more happy to be an NRA member when a worthless rag like Rolling Stones ( who reads that rag anyways) is bashing them....maybe they can have tea with Feinstein and talk about their mutual hatred for the NRA?
Matt Taibbi has actually done some great work trying to expose the institutionalized corruption on Wall Street. That's the only reason I even bothered to click on the link.

Couldn't get past the 3rd paragraph though.

I will say though, I love reading the "comments" section of articles like this. The author is just getting owned by an overwhelmingly pro-gun majority. It's refreshing to see so many not giving this garbage propaganda any quarter.
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Old 02-01-2013, 7:46 AM
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uhh ohh rolling stone doesn't like us, that's a shame
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Old 02-01-2013, 7:49 AM
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CDFingers, CA is the *only* state where the NRA employs a full time lobbyist. Respectfully, you are entirely wrong.
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Old 02-01-2013, 7:53 PM
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CDFingers, CA is the *only* state where the NRA employs a full time lobbyist. Respectfully, you are entirely wrong.
Well... good thing he's "full time" I imagine if this was a part-time gig, we'd be registering sling-shots and prohibited from carrying more than 10 rocks in our pockets. Whew! Thank goodies the NRA is alive and working hard in Cali.
BTW - I'm a Life Membership holder and I still reserve the right to call them as I see them. I won't let the government do my thinking for me any more than will let the NRA do my thinking for me. Results earn respect!

Last edited by johnjohn301; 02-01-2013 at 8:16 PM..
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Old 02-01-2013, 8:13 PM
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Well... good thing he's "full time" I imagine if this was a part-time gig, we'd be registering sling-shots and prohibited from carrying more than 10 rocks in our pockets. Whew! Thank goodies the NRA is alive and well in Cali.
What's your suggestion? How do you think they are going to stop gun control in this state? A state that keeps electing the same pinkos over and over? What percentage of California voters belong to the NRA? For that matter, what percentage of California gun owners belong to the NRA? What's their leverage? Oh, and I'm an Endowment member. The NRA was successful in the 1996 midterm elections because in some states their members vote, and are numerous enough to make a difference. And they have been involved in plenty of lawsuits in California. It wasn't that long ago they got an onerous law in SF overturned. No one is going to get a pro-gun legislature in this state.
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Old 02-01-2013, 8:42 PM
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What's your suggestion? How do you think they are going to stop gun control in this state? A state that keeps electing the same pinkos over and over? What percentage of California voters belong to the NRA? For that matter, what percentage of California gun owners belong to the NRA? What's their leverage? Oh, and I'm an Endowment member. The NRA was successful in the 1996 midterm elections because in some states their members vote, and are numerous enough to make a difference. And they have been involved in plenty of lawsuits in California. It wasn't that long ago they got an onerous law in SF overturned. No one is going to get a pro-gun legislature in this state.
My suggestion? Isn't that part of the problem? Everyone else needs to be doing the "heavy lifting" for the NRA (Calguns Foundation) because they can't be too bothered with the hard ones?

1996???? Kinda like an old broke-down boxer reliving "the big fight" isn't it? Which is exactly my point - time the NRA quit schmoozing and got back in the fight. Oh and the training DVDs that I didn't order - feels a little misguided and money grubbing, don't you think? Their time might be better served dealing with the wolves at the door.

So you seriously think the NRA is representing your (my) interests well? Tell me - how's that working out in New York right about now? Can't blame the pinkos for that one. Yes-sir, the NRA is pretty busy, just not representing the money-paying Joes.

I am a Life Membership holder and have and will continue to judge them by their results - not by their blue-plate special slogan-of-the-hour. And as a money-paying supporter, I am not impressed.

But - I'm very happy for you, that you are -

BTW - This is what it looks like when you are actually engaged in an issue and are not just an ill-prepared, out-of-date, self-serving, blow-hard masquerading as an 800lb gorilla.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Wi6gZU01yF8

Last edited by johnjohn301; 02-01-2013 at 9:15 PM..
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