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  #121  
Old 09-16-2020, 8:45 AM
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Originally Posted by M60A1Rise View Post
Grew up Catholic I stopped looking up and started looking within in the late 70's early 80's when I enlisted. Read a few of the various other books they're all the same in premise. Just do right by others is my motto.

I think ANY deity that has the power to prevent the stuff that happens in this world to children and just stands idle and does nothing may not be something I want to be attached to. In nature animals kill to eat , humans kill each other for sport.

I feel like this , we ALL have someone we loved or they loved us and then they pass away. If there was something after this , that person would sure come back and warn us to get right because they loved us. So i'll make my mark here and live as good a life as I can and help someone else live theirs good too if I can. If something happens after i'll never be able to tell anyone it seems.
This is "asked and answered" in Luke 16:27> He answered, ĎThen I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my fatherís house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.í 29 ďAbraham replied, ĎThey have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.í 30 ďĎNo, father Abraham,í he said, Ďbut if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.í 31 ďHe said to him, ĎIf they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.í ď


Humanity has already been warned.
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  #122  
Old 09-16-2020, 9:15 AM
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Non-Christian (atheist) checking in here. Funny I join a gun forum and this is my first post. I was a pretty hard-core Christian the first 35 years of my life, but I finally overcame my upbringing/indoctrination and admitted to myself that none of it made any sense. Left religion about 10 years ago and have never been more at peace. Not really interested in debating, just letting others know that more like us exist since I'm sure we're in the SUPER-minority on this forum.
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  #123  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by goro25 View Post
Non-Christian (atheist) checking in here. Funny I join a gun forum and this is my first post. I was a pretty hard-core Christian the first 35 years of my life, but I finally overcame my upbringing/indoctrination and admitted to myself that none of it made any sense. Left religion about 10 years ago and have never been more at peace. Not really interested in debating, just letting others know that more like us exist since I'm sure we're in the SUPER-minority on this forum.

I think youíll find that Christians are the minority in these forums. Itís just that we tend to gravitate or remember people or comments that we have strong opinions on.

Iím curious why you chose the word ďindoctrinationĒ instead of just saying something like, ďI realized it didnít make sense for me so I became an atheist,Ē and leave it at that? Your choice of words makes me think you still harbor some anger/bitterness which is not living in peace.

Not a criticism but itís something Iíve noticed in my past experiences.


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  #124  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:51 AM
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I think "indoctrination" is a perfect word in describing religion of any kind. Brainwashing works as well. Its just a way for people to control the thoughts of other people and, by defalt, control there actions. I prefer to think for myself hence "free thinkers".
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  #125  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by spectralhunter View Post
I think youíll find that Christians are the minority in these forums. Itís just that we tend to gravitate or remember people or comments that we have strong opinions on.

Iím curious why you chose the word ďindoctrinationĒ instead of just saying something like, ďI realized it didnít make sense for me so I became an atheist,Ē and leave it at that? Your choice of words makes me think you still harbor some anger/bitterness which is not living in peace.

Not a criticism but itís something Iíve noticed in my past experiences.


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It's always a difficult sentence to phrase while trying to remain civil and also being honest.

Indoctrinate - "teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"

That's going to be different for everyone based on their parents and the way they were raised and taught religion. As for me, I was absolutely indoctrinated.
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  #126  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:40 AM
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It's always a difficult sentence to phrase while trying to remain civil and also being honest.



Indoctrinate - "teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"



That's going to be different for everyone based on their parents and the way they were raised and taught religion. As for me, I was absolutely indoctrinated.

I appreciate the answer. Thank you.

I could try to push a bit more but then it just becomes a bunch of psyche-babble and that doesnít help anyone. Iíll leave it alone.


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  #127  
Old 09-16-2020, 2:16 PM
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I'm sure if there are Japanese people here or Hafus, there are plenty of Buddhists (more than two hahah).
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  #128  
Old 09-16-2020, 4:28 PM
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I was taken to church by my parents while a youngster and have taken MY OWN PATH to church fellowship ever since leaving home. Never had a issue with their approach to God and fellowship in church. Full Gospel ( Pentecostal ) was and remains my lifetime activity towards Faith in God, and I studied and researched truth as GOD revealed it to me, not just as my parents exposed it to me. Walking/living towards God/Jesus Christ was and is a fulfilling worthy journey in my life. If that is not your path, find the path that makes a difference FOR YOU. But remember, it is by Faith alone that we/you/me approach Him.

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  #129  
Old 09-16-2020, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sonofeugene View Post
I've already stated my beliefs. I simply choose to not believe anything. There are millions of possibilities but that's all they are....possibilities. Nothing is really known until we die. And even then, there may simply be nothing.

Again, I choose not to be encumbered by ANY belief system simply because NONE of them can be proved.
This thread is titled "Discussions of Faith". If you have none why do you *think* you have anything to contribute?
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~ Barry Goldwater 1964
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  #130  
Old 09-16-2020, 5:07 PM
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I think "indoctrination" is a perfect word in describing religion of any kind. Brainwashing works as well. Its just a way for people to control the thoughts of other people and, by defalt, control there actions. I prefer to think for myself hence "free thinkers".

Itís interesting that you see yourself as a free thinker. If you really think about it, thereís nothing free about our thinking. Our upbringing, education, experiences create biases in our world view. We all see the world through a prism influenced by all those things. And many of those things are out of our control.

Thereís not one person on earth who can think with complete neutrality. We all have our presuppositions.

Apostle Paul even goes one step further. The Bible says we are under the bondage of sin. We are slaves to sin. Our thoughts and actions are all tainted with sin and wickedness. So even if we think ourselves free, we are in fact in chains.

True freedom is found through the saving work of Jesus Christ.


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  #131  
Old 09-16-2020, 6:04 PM
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This is a great watch, struggles with evolution in a non-religious way
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  #132  
Old 09-16-2020, 6:39 PM
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There are a bunch of atheists on CalGuns this thread is sad that there are so many non believers that are so pleased with their lack of faith.
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  #133  
Old 09-16-2020, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST View Post
There are a bunch of atheists on CalGuns this thread is sad that there are so many non believers that are so pleased with their lack of faith.
Matthew 10:14

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

Matthew 11:15

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
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"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed"
~ Barry Goldwater 1964
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  #134  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST View Post
There are a bunch of atheists on CalGuns this thread is sad that there are so many non believers that are so pleased with their lack of faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Matthew 10:14

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

Matthew 11:15

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
So why are you guys all hell-bent on putting down non-believers? You "believers" are just as "pleased" with being believers. And actually, I'm not running around being "pleased" with my beliefs. I simply find it liberating to not believe in any of it and, except for discussions like this one, I never give any if it a second thought.

And you might stop quoting scripture in response to anything I or we say. It doesn't bother me but really, it means nothing. Save your time and energy. Or post something meaningful. Posting scripture doesn't mean anything to anyone but a believer.

Sorry if that ruffles some feathers, but having someone quote scripture to a non-believer is pointless.
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  #135  
Old 09-17-2020, 3:38 AM
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AS a believer, I quite understand the difference between being indoctrinated, and having faith...

If you seek to understand the difference, you'll realize how huge it really is.
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  #136  
Old 09-17-2020, 5:44 AM
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I think "indoctrination" is a perfect word in describing religion of any kind. Brainwashing works as well. Its just a way for people to control the thoughts of other people and, by defalt, control there actions. I prefer to think for myself hence "free thinkers".
Been there, received that. Aren't cults wonderful?!
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  #137  
Old 09-17-2020, 5:57 AM
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Sorry if that ruffles some feathers, but having someone quote scripture to a non-believer is pointless.

I just wanted to explain why Christians quote Scripture. We believe in the power of the Word of God and that it has the ability to change menís hearts. The meaning behind the words can lead to change.

So yes, I suppose in your perspective itís pointless but to a believer it is necessary.


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  #138  
Old 09-17-2020, 6:13 AM
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It's sad that you don't believe, but how do you know that it's a lie?
A Christian asking someone who grew up on American Indian reservations why they donít believe in Christianity is awfully rich.
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  #139  
Old 09-17-2020, 6:44 AM
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Been there, received that. Aren't cults wonderful?!

When people use words like indoctrination or cults those are strong accusations. They imply something sinister, malevolent and deceitful.

Now I donít know if itís the case with you but when I encounter people with such strong opinions, itís due to past experiences with believers or so called believers. In His great wisdom God has chosen to use fallible creatures like myself to be His witness.

Sadly I do not always represent my Lord ideally in every encounter. At best I can only acknowledge or own my mistake, sin or failure and try not to commit them again. The number of famous charlatan evangelists do not help the matter.

I hope that you or others who view Christianity in a dark light will evaluate it on its merits and not based on a few bad apples.

I see you are a retired LEO according to your profile. Currently there are those who want to defund the police due to abuse both real and imagined. Perhaps there are corrupt departments. But assuredly there are departments who take their job very seriously and care for their reputation.

I certainly donít characterize all police as corrupt due to a few bad apples. Instead I know the police are also run by fallible creatures but their cause is just. I just ask the same courtesy be extended to Christians.

If you disagree with the Word of God, thatís fine. I wish you well but please treat each other with dignity.


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  #140  
Old 09-17-2020, 1:12 PM
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I just wanted to explain why Christians quote Scripture. We believe in the power of the Word of God and that it has the ability to change menís hearts. The meaning behind the words can lead to change.

So yes, I suppose in your perspective itís pointless but to a believer it is necessary.


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That's fine. But also remember that often Christians quote scripture as some sort of proof that they're right and others are wrong. If all one can do is quote scripture in response to non-believers, that's the same thing as saying "cause I told you so". It's no response.

For all believers, I'm not putting anyone down. But for me, I don't see the point of all this religious stuff. If you want to believe, that's fine. If another segment of society wants to believe something else, that should be fine also. Lack of religion doesn't mean a lack of morals or a lack of doing things right and proper.
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  #141  
Old 09-17-2020, 1:13 PM
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This thread is titled "Discussions of Faith". If you have none why do you *think* you have anything to contribute?
Well, actually, this thread is titled "Non-Christians in this Forum?"

So, as a non-christian, I responded. And I take "Discussions of Faith" to mean all faiths.
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  #142  
Old 09-17-2020, 1:25 PM
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That's fine. But also remember that often Christians quote scripture as some sort of proof that they're right and others are wrong. If all one can do is quote scripture in response to non-believers, that's the same thing as saying "cause I told you so". It's no response.

For all believers, I'm not putting anyone down. But for me, I don't see the point of all this religious stuff. If you want to believe, that's fine. If another segment of society wants to believe something else, that should be fine also. Lack of religion doesn't mean a lack of morals or a lack of doing things right and proper.

It is said that ignorance of the law is no excuse. I have actually heard judges say that on the bench. So let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that a law does exist and it requires that you have faith along certain lines. Despite cries of "unfairness" if that is the law it is the law. Again assuming, just for the sake of argument, that you violate the law in question. Might there be consequences? And suppose those consequences are severe? Isn't it worth some effort to find out? I implore you to seek answers; you may PM me at any time. I write because I care.
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  #143  
Old 09-17-2020, 1:41 PM
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That's fine. But also remember that often Christians quote scripture as some sort of proof that they're right and others are wrong.

You place quite a large value on proof. Iím assuming scientific proof. You do realize much of what you believe in science requires a great deal of faith?

Let me explain. Proof comes from two sources. Either you personally witness the event or you rely upon the statements of others. In regard to the statement of others, you must place value on their authority and you must trust them.

We all assume George Washington was the first president? How? We never met him. We rely upon the testimony of reliable witnesses and perhaps some physical evidence. Letís go even further back. Who was Alexander the Great?

Your proof is you solely trusting and relying upon historians.

How about quantum physics? I might understand the basics but beyond that I have to trust that the physicists are telling me the truth. This applies to almost everything in life.

Christians cite the Bible because we trust the authors and their authority and authenticity. Itís not blind faith as many non believers believe.



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  #144  
Old 09-17-2020, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by spectralhunter View Post
When people use words like indoctrination or cults those are strong accusations. They imply something sinister, malevolent and deceitful.

Now I don’t know if it’s the case with you but when I encounter people with such strong opinions, it’s due to past experiences with believers or so called believers. In His great wisdom God has chosen to use fallible creatures like myself to be His witness.

Sadly I do not always represent my Lord ideally in every encounter. At best I can only acknowledge or own my mistake, sin or failure and try not to commit them again. The number of famous charlatan evangelists do not help the matter.

I hope that you or others who view Christianity in a dark light will evaluate it on its merits and not based on a few bad apples.

I see you are a retired LEO according to your profile. Currently there are those who want to defund the police due to abuse both real and imagined. Perhaps there are corrupt departments. But assuredly there are departments who take their job very seriously and care for their reputation.

I certainly don’t characterize all police as corrupt due to a few bad apples. Instead I know the police are also run by fallible creatures but their cause is just. I just ask the same courtesy be extended to Christians.

If you disagree with the Word of God, that’s fine. I wish you well but please treat each other with dignity.


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Spectral hunter, I do not disagree with the Word of God. Quite frankly, that is pretty much all I go by now days.
My experience is based on being raised in a religion that many people, and some religious groups, call a "cult". Going to it's schools, having only friends who are in the same religion, and not knowing any different because that's all we knew. Not learning until the advent of different ideas, and knowledge, from the internet. Which led to independent searching of the Bible, and coming to my own conclusions. I often have difficulty with some of the ideas I read here, because of my rigid and limited background.
My comment was not meant to accuse, or point fingers, at any one here, nor at any one particular religion. Other than the one I was raised in.

Last edited by Sailormilan2; 09-18-2020 at 4:18 AM..
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  #145  
Old 09-17-2020, 3:50 PM
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Spectral hunter, I do not disagree with the Word of God. Quite frankly, that is pretty much all I go by now days.

My experience is based on being raised in a religion that many call a "cult". Going to it's schools, having only friends who are in the same religion, and not knowing any different because that's all we knew. Not learning until the advent of different ideas, and knowledge, from the internet. Which led to independent searching of the Bible, and coming to my own conclusions. I often have difficulty with some of the ideas I read here, because of my rigid and limited background.

My comment was not meant to accuse, or point fingers, at any one here, nor at any one particular religion. Other than the one I was raised in.

It truly saddens me when I hear stories like this. Faith in Christ should be liberating not imprisoning.

Thank you for clearing it up for me. I do hope you continue your journey and find a church that preaches and exemplifies Christ. Fellowship is also a key necessity in our walk with Christ.


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  #146  
Old 09-17-2020, 5:29 PM
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I was brought up Roman Catholic, as in Latin Tridentine Mass.
To me, i have prayed for all the Pope's souls, since Novus Ordo.
The Catholic church of America, is a falsehood, and their teachings are fake., as is the current Vatican.
Did you know, the Latin mass isn't allowed to be said in public?
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Old 09-18-2020, 7:48 AM
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357manny 357manny is offline
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Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
I was brought up Roman Catholic, as in Latin Tridentine Mass.
To me, i have prayed for all the Pope's souls, since Novus Ordo.
The Catholic church of America, is a falsehood, and their teachings are fake., as is the current Vatican.
Did you know, the Latin mass isn't allowed to be said in public?
There's much to be said about the current Vatican, by Catholic Americans. Many Catholic scholars/believers do not agree with the current pope's messages:

https://www.tfp.org/the-pachamama-po...-the-pandemic/
https://veritas-vincit-international...ses-pachamama/
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  #148  
Old 09-18-2020, 8:27 AM
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I am not a American Catholic, but I do fellowship with Charismatic Catholics whenever I can. Ditto on the current pope, but I am saying this as a observer only.

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Old 10-12-2020, 3:40 PM
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Hi there, Iím an atheist.


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Old 10-15-2020, 2:05 AM
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Raised Catholic, was atheist before age ten, and now, when asked I say "I'm an atheist who was raised in the California Catholic tradition." Hi, all.
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Old 10-19-2020, 10:35 AM
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Iím a muslim


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Old 10-19-2020, 2:01 PM
SelfGovernor SelfGovernor is offline
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First post, welcome to the forum
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