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  #1  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:26 PM
expo expo is offline
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Default Sig p229, dealer can't find CA model can we remove hi-caps?

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase a SIG p229 EE pistol and the -CA model is out of stock, is it legal to order the NON-CA model and remove the high caps (selling the gun with no mags?)?

The roster only lists the gun's model number Sig 229R9ESE with no -CA designation so is this possible?

My dealer said that his wholesaler told him that the CADOJ has a list of serial numbers from the -CA gun's and that the DROS system would kick the gun out if it wasn't a -CA but that sounds like BS too me...

Any advice?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2012, 6:07 AM
DEPUTYBILL DEPUTYBILL is offline
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I think that the information for the gun you purchase has to match the information on the dealer DROS screen to be approved. In the standard Dros screen,a list of approved roster guns drop down when the maker's name is entered. If the gun you have is not on that list,there may be an issues.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2012, 8:22 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Well, the model number listed on the certified list is not actually the CA version.

The CA version has a loaded chamber indicator and I think a magazine disconnect (not 100% sure). The model number is different as well since it has the "-CA" at the end. The fact that the two models are actually physically different is an aspect as well.

Based on all that, it seems to me that the actual CA version can not be sold since it is not on the certified list and that the non-CA version is specifically listed by the model number.

As far as I know the CA DOJ does not have a list of serial numbers. It would have to be constantly updated if they did.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:00 AM
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The wholeseller most likely does not want to switch out the mags. The larger distributors will not do it. Even on long guns like Mini 14's, if it came with a 20rnd mag, they won't switch it to 10.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2012, 9:31 AM
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Eddy's Shooting Sports Eddy's Shooting Sports is offline
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This is interesting topic as the roster can be kind of muddy in regards to model designations. Some brands like Springfield Armory have very specific model numbers listed that would otherwise be impossible to determine if you don't have the original box. Others just have more general descriptions.

Let's say someone sells a used Ruger SR22 to an FFL and he resells it as a dealer transfer. How does the dealer determine if that SR22 was maybe delivered in another state originally with a laser on it, making it non roster? He can't. Same goes for many Sigs. A P226R doesnt say "P226R" on it, it just says P226 and happens to have a rail. What if someone converts a Sig to an E2 model? Is it an E2 for the purpose of the roster?

The problem is DOJ doesn't know either.



The examples and confusion goes on and on...
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2012, 9:39 AM
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FYI, the DOJ has more information than what is put on the web site, so in some cases calling does help.

One aspect that bugs me is that the DROS system is different than the web page and the information between the two is different.

The examples just go on and on as you say, like the Sig P229 SAS in which the old version is on the list, but the new version is not. But unless the FFL knows that, there is no way to know.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2012, 5:58 PM
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The answer to the OP is no, the non-CA model is not the rostered P229 EE. The Cali version has the loaded chamber indicator as well as the magazine disconnect safety. The non-CA model has neither of those and therefore is a completely different gun.

I have both -CA calibers in stock, where are you located?
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2012, 11:51 PM
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Buy it from Northern firearms on gunbroker. They'll remove the mags, disassemble them, ship them direct to you, and the gun to an FFL
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2012, 6:42 AM
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IMO removing the mags etc does nothing to make it legal. Sig and every other major manufacturer give the models made for California special designations for a reason, tis why we find them listed at some of our distributors with CA approved in the description. Yzernie there two posts up seems to have the California compliant models in stock and I'm sure will be willing to ship to another dealer for the op's convenience to ensure he actually buys a LEGAL gun.
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  #10  
Old 12-09-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
The answer to the OP is no, the non-CA model is not the rostered P229 EE. The Cali version has the loaded chamber indicator as well as the magazine disconnect safety. The non-CA model has neither of those and therefore is a completely different gun.
Incorrect.

From the certified list:

Quote:
P229R Enhanced Elite (Black) E29R-40-ESE / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 3.9" .40 S&W 4/17/2013
P229R Enhanced Elite (Black) E29R-9-ESE / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 3.9" 9mm 4/17/2013
The E29R-40-ESE and E29R-9-ESE are not the CA models and the "E" indicates high capacity magazines, but that is the model which is actually listed.

The CA models are 229-40-ESE-CA and 229-9-ESE-CA, which have the features mentioned.

So please show me where the CA versions are actually on the certified list. I have shown you that the non-CA version is actually on the list based on the model number.

What all this means is a guess. Is the listing incorrect? Or is the listing correct with that specific model? Does this means that you can transfer the non-CA version? Does the incorrect model mean that you can NOT transfer the CA version? Or does it mean that you can't transfer any ESE?
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:54 AM
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I know what the roster says and I also know which is the actual -CA model but you bring up a valid point about what is on the roster. Not sure I want to be the one to get the audit though!! lol
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:31 PM
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Personally, if the model number is the one which is on the roster, there really can't be an issue since that is the specific model number listed. While the DOJ might not be happy, it is their list and that is the model number, so I doubt that there is much that they can do, although they can try. If it is not the E29 version, then you could have an issue since the model number would not match. The CA model number version should also be ok, but who knows.

I could call the person who deals with the certified list, but I am not sure that I want to hear the answer :-).
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2012, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
I could call the person who deals with the certified list, but I am not sure that I want to hear the answer :-).
I agree, sometimes things are just better left alone!!
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2012, 1:58 PM
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I purchased a FNP40 it had hicap mags the shipping dealer swapped out the hicaps for 10rd all calif happy now. The roster does not state ca. by any part number. I wold think you are good to go. My biggest gripe and I called the DOJ on it was I wanted a blued version of the stainless one on the list to save a few bucks . Apparently the color ss makes it safer. I was told part numbers must match what was tested. If the manufacturer uses a generic part number without too much specificity we are better off. so the shorter the part number the better. my two cents.
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