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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:42 PM
Guapoh Guapoh is offline
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M1A Loaded is your friend.
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  #42  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
I'm not sure, but if the primary purpose is really hunting, I think a .308 bolt gun is better. Lighter, reliable, etc, etc.

I once inquired about a .308 AR and it was pointed out that .308 is a great long range round, but then why would you need semi-auto? If you want long range precision, then a .308 semi was not what I was looking for. That made sense, so I stuck with an AR in .223 and got a R700 for a .308.

Just my (and someone else's 2 cents).

Having said that, post what you end up with!
Yep.

Just killed a 700lb elk this month with 1 shot from my Remy 700 308.
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  #43  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:52 PM
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I'd do the list more like this...

Precision Semi 308

1. Larue OBR
2. Gap-10
3. LMT MWS w/ Stainless Steel Barrel

Battle Semi 308

1. LMT MWS w/ Chrome Lined Barrel
2. LWRC REPR
3. POF

I'm not too familiar with the KAC so don't know what category it would go.

The precision category are rifles that shoot sub-moa.

Don't believe the guys that dumped their mortgage refi on the LWRC REPR that tell you it's a 1/2 moa gun.
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  #44  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:53 PM
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BTW did you know that Larue will change out your barrel for free if you shoot it out? And GAP does one thing... precision.
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:54 PM
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KAC M110 is a no go in CA and its the most exspensive on your list to buy. Not to mention the military and many people at snipershide do not like the platform at all. The accuracy of that gun is the worst out of all the others on your list.

LWRC comes in as the second most exspenive with many fetching north of 3,300.

POF and the GAP-10 would be your best financial bet and I would think if your not leaning towards a gas piston set up then you should be all over the GAP-10.



I've been looking into getting a GAP-10 myself as I have always been impressed by the performance of their guns.

If you want to know POF accuracy check out the web page they have at www.pof-usa.com. for starters. Also there are a few good threads highlighting the POF platform and its accuracy capabilities.
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Last edited by bomb_on_bus; 11-28-2012 at 4:51 PM..
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2012, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guapoh View Post
M1A Loaded is your friend.
I really love M1A's, but I think that after all the crap I would want to put on it, I would end up with a gun thats as neutered as an AR, and costs about 5k more. But don't worry that's my next gun... Or maybe it'll be the first rifle that I actually buy when I turn 18... yeah, I'm 17 right now but I have a deal with my dad that every semester I get on "honor roll", I get a gun... no convincing and nagging needed... now accessories, thats a whole different deal... I can't even convince him that UTG is not a "high-end bipod" maker... Ill save those stories for another day and another thread hahaha
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  #47  
Old 11-28-2012, 4:03 PM
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The GAP-10 is an amazing thing... it's the next thing I certainly plan to pick up... in 260 Rem though.
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2012, 6:31 PM
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At one time, I had a DPMS, Armalite and POF. I sold the DPMS and Armalite and kept the POF. I have never had any problems with it.

I also had a Knights Armament M110, Serial Number 11, in the shop back in 2008, with matching suppressor. I never fired it, but the two test targets that came with the gun were both over 1 MOA at 100 yards.
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2012, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
The 308 is anything but a long range caliber. 168 hpbt's peter out at 800 yards and the drop is atrocious. If you want long range buy a 7mm - something.
Really?!? You know this for a fact, or are you just repeating what you've heard?

Granted, 175+ grain is better, but the ballistics calculator I use (JBM) indicates FGMM BTHP 168 grain goes subsonic at 1100 yards when initial muzzle velocity is 2650. I easily get that from my 24" barreled Savage.
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2012, 7:03 PM
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Dave: every thing you just said: duly noted... you seem to be one of the most knowledgable people in this thread on 308 ars so I will change my list to that configuration... though Im only going to use the precision platform one ahahha

and KAC is out, same with LWRC

And the MWS shoots < moa groups? thats quite impressive, though considering what I heard about the POF, not that great a surprise
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  #51  
Old 11-28-2012, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
Really?!? You know this for a fact, or are you just repeating what you've heard?

Granted, 175+ grain is better, but the ballistics calculator I use (JBM) indicates FGMM BTHP 168 grain goes subsonic at 1100 yards when initial muzzle velocity is 2650. I easily get that from my 24" barreled Savage.
From my experience, the 168's don't do well past 800-900 yards depending on elevation. My buddy in NM shoots them out to 1000 yards without much issue, but he's at 5000+ feet elevation. At 1000 feet it's a different story. I've made hits at 1000 yards with 168 SMK, but the accuracy is definitely worse with them at 800-900 yards out. Out to the upper 700's they do pretty well, but somewhere between that and 1000 yards they do in fact go subsonic, and then all bets are off. This was shooting FGMM 168's out of a Savage 10FP McMillan with 24" barrel. Shorter barrels do even worse with 168's. Honestly, I'd almost rather shoot 147 grain ball at long range. Results are the same, but much cheaper. So far, the most consistent performers I have seen out of the 308 are the 178 Amax and 190 SMK
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  #52  
Old 11-29-2012, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FMJBT View Post
From my experience, the 168's don't do well past 800-900 yards depending on elevation. My buddy in NM shoots them out to 1000 yards without much issue, but he's at 5000+ feet elevation. At 1000 feet it's a different story. I've made hits at 1000 yards with 168 SMK, but the accuracy is definitely worse with them at 800-900 yards out.
I agree with you on this. My primary point was that they don't go subsonic till around 1100 yards, but yes, they don't buck the wind as well as heavier loads.

My local range is limited to about 600 yards, so they work well for me. What drives me to them even more is that the 175 gr. FGMM stuff I can find is chambered in 7.62X51 and not .308. My Savage chamber just doesn't like 7.62 and won't eject it worth a crap. Any .308 works just fine. Very tight chamber.
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  #53  
Old 11-29-2012, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
I'd do the list more like this...

Precision Semi 308

1. Larue OBR
2. Gap-10
3. LMT MWS w/ Stainless Steel Barrel

Battle Semi 308

1. LMT MWS w/ Chrome Lined Barrel
2. LWRC REPR
3. POF

I'm not too familiar with the KAC so don't know what category it would go.

The precision category are rifles that shoot sub-moa.

Don't believe the guys that dumped their mortgage refi on the LWRC REPR that tell you it's a 1/2 moa gun.
There have been a few guys on Sniper's Hide who shot their POF 308s vs their GAP10s and found the accuracy difference to be minimal. Both rifles were shooting well below MOA.
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  #54  
Old 11-29-2012, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
What drives me to them even more is that the 175 gr. FGMM stuff I can find is chambered in 7.62X51 and not .308.
That's just box labeling and sometimes they don't do a final polish on the brass so you can still see the annealing marks. It's 308.
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  #55  
Old 11-29-2012, 8:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
There have been a few guys on Sniper's Hide who shot their POF 308s vs their GAP10s and found the accuracy difference to be minimal. Both rifles were shooting well below MOA.
Wow... if that's the case, that's quite nice, especially out of a Piston.

I have on a couple occasions seen the POF 308 fail though.

Personally, I'd go GAP over a POF.
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  #56  
Old 11-29-2012, 9:06 AM
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That's just box labeling and sometimes they don't do a final polish on the brass so you can still see the annealing marks. It's 308.
I don't think so. Cases are marked 7.62 X 51 on the bottom and every single one of them will jam in the chamber. 168 gr labeled .308 cycles nice and smooth. 7.62 surplus also jams while every brand in .308 I've tried (Black Hills, Priv, Hornady, etc.) cycles nice and smooth.

Did a search and this is common for rifles with tight chambers, particularly Savages. Case dimensions on 7.62 are slightly different.
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  #57  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:19 AM
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One thing I will say on POFs is that I have seen several threads where people claim the reliability is not as good as I would like it. Between that and what you guys have been saying, I don't think that they are on par with many of the other, better rifles.

Hey Hoop, where the guns' barrels the same length?
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  #58  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:19 AM
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One thing I will say on POFs is that I have seen several threads where people claim the reliability is not as good as I would like it. Between that and what you guys have been saying, I don't think that they are on par with many of the other, better rifles.

Hey Hoop, where the guns' barrels the same length?
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  #59  
Old 11-29-2012, 3:40 PM
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As far as the whole accuracy thing goes. GAP and POF pretty much lead the pack of guns you have been looking at. Both are capable of sub 1/2 MOA. Both are priced similarly but with GAP you get more options.

I went with POF initially because of the Gas Piston set up, how well they are put together, and accuracy of the system.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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  #60  
Old 11-29-2012, 6:56 PM
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Damn, no love here for the PWS (Primary Weapon Systems) MK214 or MK216? I have the MK214 (14.5 pinned to 16.1 overall) and love it. Totally fits the bill for battle rifle, some sport hunting or possible shtf rifle... All this and reliable so far. Approx. 500 round count. I will be buying another one real soon.
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  #61  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:53 PM
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I have both a POF P308 20" and a P415 16". The thread is all about the .308 so I will stick with my experience. The rifle is a complete P308 with 20" barrel and a Geissele SSA-E trigger that breaks clean. I had a small problem with it cycling too fast and the round stovepiping about every 3rd round. I sent 1 email with pics to POF, and Cody DeSomma contacted me the next morning. They paid shipping both ways, had it fixed in 2 days and back to my house on Saturday of the same week in a POF hard case. Not bad if you ask me.

Now onto accuracy. I can get MOA groups easily on the bench when I do my part. I get subMOA groups with Hornady 168gr AMax Precision and my job behind the trigger. I am sure someone who is a better shooter can do better.

All of the rifles in this thread are well made and beautiful in their own right. These rifles are like Ford, Dodge and Chevy. They have fiercely loyal customers and who spend lots of $$$ to get them. So take each opinion, like mine, that way.

Lastly buy something used to save yourself some cash. Use the saved $$ to get some training and LOTS of quality ammo.
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  #62  
Old 12-09-2012, 7:05 PM
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I also have a SA Scout M1A that I can get 1.5" or better groups at 100yds.
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