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  #1  
Old 12-07-2012, 8:49 AM
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Default Dec 7th, 1941

The Sleeping giant awakes 71 years ago.

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Old 12-07-2012, 8:57 AM
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Yes Sir!
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Old 12-07-2012, 9:54 AM
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Unfortunately it's not getting much press anymore...

George Santayana d.1952 said" Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." [/B]
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Old 12-07-2012, 9:59 AM
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Not getting much press? Every morning tv show, radio station I listened to and every newspaper had a story on it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:49 AM
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Well, there are not many left with actual memories of it --
I was only about nine years old myself --
We heard it on the car radio and my Dad had to immediately return to the base. He was a tech sargent usmc staioned at MCB san diego --
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:50 AM
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duplicate, must have mashed the button twice

Last edited by gunboat; 12-07-2012 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gunboat View Post
Well, there are not many left with actual memories of it --
I was only about nine years old myself --
We heard it on the car radio and my Dad had to immediately return to the base. He was a tech sargent usmc staioned at MCB san diego --
noone remembers 11Nov anymore either.

"events" become "dates" as those who were there leave us and it becomes historical- and cultural- instead of living-memory.

i bet they said the same thing as lexington and gettysburg vets went away as well. and say the same thing about 9/11 in 100 years.
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Old 12-07-2012, 1:49 PM
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The greatest generation. God bless everyone of them.
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Old 12-07-2012, 2:07 PM
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2012, 2:20 PM
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Pearl Harbor guys were sitting ducks.

United States B-17 and B-24 bomber crews got up, ate breakfast, loaded up, and at the worst of the conflict, more than 30% did not come back. Look at this if you are halfway good at percentages:

http://www.taphilo.com/history/8thaf/8aflosses.shtml

With the US in the war, the UK took over the nighttime operations (I wonder who figured that deal out) and carpet bombed the Axis for 3 years.

No ones brightest moment.

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From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

-- Randall Jarrell
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Old 12-07-2012, 8:12 PM
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God bless the Greatest Generation! Don't think we'll see another one like them anytime soon.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2012, 8:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post

Quote:
The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner
From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

-- Randall Jarrell
Visited the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville earlier this week and got a chance to speak to to an elderly B-17 crewman. He advised that the ball turret was not the most hazardous position in the B-17. He reported that the Luftwaffe preferred stern and head on attacks, making the tail gunner and Bombadier/Navigator positions especially dangerous. This somewhat surprised me.

I will say this, after crawling through a B-17G model, the ball turret position certainly looked like the least comfortable spot in a B-17.

One other thing that you should know when quoting Randall Jarrell, who got a lot of play for his anti-war ideology out of having served in the Army Air Corps during WWII before committing suicide in 1965...Jarrell spent WWII in Texas teaching celestial navigation and saw not one day of combat in WWII.

Just saying, because many people assume he was driven mad by his wartime experiences. Also not diminishing his or anyone else's contributions to the war effort.
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Last edited by Mustang; 12-09-2012 at 6:54 AM..
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2012, 9:03 PM
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duplicate
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  #14  
Old 12-08-2012, 8:16 PM
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Here are a few pic's of my father.....

He graduated from flight school Dec 6th 1941 at Ellington field in Texas. The next day (after Pear Harbor) he and his squadron were ordered to head to Australia and then to New Guinea. He flew P-40's and had five air to air victories.

The last pic is him later in his late 80's beside the type P-40 he flew.
He passed away last year at the age of 93.

Absolutely one of the best of the greatest generation. I miss him dearly.

In flight school. Age 21


Graduation pic.



At Champlian air museum in Mesa Arizona where he worked as a volunteer docent.
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2012, 6:53 AM
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Great pictures of a great father, SVT
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Old 12-09-2012, 7:08 AM
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talked to a WW 11 vet the other day that was on the second wave at IWO JIMA. now that my friend is seeing some SHI**.
about 10 years ago i was camping and met a army Batan death march survivor. once a month i used to go to the chino plains of fame aircraft museum and here pilots tell their stories. i mean midway dog fight stuff. those are my heroes.
for 20 years i read everything about WW11 i could get my hands on. amazing history.
i am stuck in that history as to how i see the world today. my personal fav WW11 hero is Jimmy Doolittle. he did everything you can accomplish in 1 life time. turn off the ABC evening news and pick up a book. you will be way better informed. do not get me started.
herd the other day a teacher told the class WW eleven DOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2012, 7:32 AM
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i am stuck in that history as to how i see the world today. my personal fav WW11 hero is Jimmy Doolittle. he did everything you can accomplish in 1 life time.
A worthy favorite...a combat hero with a Doctorate from MIT.
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Old 12-09-2012, 8:33 AM
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When I was a kid there were still Spanish American War veterans, and every summer my grandfathers WW1 unit - the 50th Aero Squadron AEF, held their reunion somewhere interesting around the country - this is how I visited Disneyland the first time, the old "Marineland of the Pacific, Miami Beach, saw the 1964-65 World's Fair in New York, Yellowstone National Park,Virginia Beech, the pacific Northwest, etc. and while travelling to and from these reunions saw Carlsbad Caverns, the Grand Canyon, Dinosaur National Park, Petrified Forrest/Painted Desert, and many other interesting and historic places. My grandfather passed in the 1960's and the last WW1 vet in my family, an uncle, in the early 1970's.

My stepfather, an Iwo Jima vet, who as a Navy See Bee attached to the Marine Corps was one of the first U.S. soldiers to set foot on Iwo (he lost his arm there to a Japanese mortar shell) died in the mid 1990's and my other grandfather, who was a WW2 vet of the Czech, German, and Soviet "Czech Red Army" and a POW who narrowly escaped execution by the Soviets after the fall of Sevastapol to the Red Army, died in 1979.

In the period of the 1960's to 1980's I also lost all my other relatives who were Ww1 or WW2 vets. My dad, who is still living and 82 years old is a Korean War era vet, but due to a knee injury from college football, ended up in Germany (where he met my mother) instead of Korea.

Since I have always had an interest in history and things political and military, I used to love to listen to the personal life and military experiences of relatives and anyone else who would share them. Still, I regret that I didn't ask a lot more questions and document things in writing. But when you are younger, it really doesn't occur to you to preserve these things, and you don't realize how fast the time goes and how soon you will lose those you care about.

I believe the last few living WW1 vets in the world recently passed away, and the remaining WW2 vets are dying off at a rate of 1,000 a day. With them go pieces of history, often very personal family history, that should be preserved.

I would urge anyone here with relatives who survived any of the great history changing events of the last century - the Great Depression, the social upheaval and labor struggles of that era, WW2, the Civil Rights Movement, Korea, Viet Nam and the 1960's including the Hippy and "anti-war" movements, to discuss these things with them and document and preserve what you can.

It's amazing how much we have gained - and lost - over a period of a relatively few short years. I remember John F. Kennedy, Marilyn Monroe, Martin Luther King, and George Lincoln Rockwell, and their deaths. The first men to walk on the moon, including my distant cousin Neil Armstrong. The slaughter of Europeans in the Belgian Congo, the Viet Nam War, and the 1967 Negro riots in Detroit. Party line telephones, 2 digit zip codes, the period when computers went from a 3 story building (2 of which contained the air conditioning units to keep the tubes cool) to the size of a Volkswagen with punch cards, to the internet and our modern small portable computers/phones/video cameras.... I'd say that the information and communication technology is the most amazing thing of my lifetime.

How here remembers being able to take an hunting knife and/or a firearm to school - or on an airplane - and nobody cared or was worried? Or being able to buy a firearm through the mail legally and without need for a C&R license? Any gainfully employed working man being able to afford raising a large family (with mother staying at home to care for them), buy a house, and get a new car (with a 600 hp stock car engine, if one so desired) every couple years?

Last edited by Marcus von W.; 12-09-2012 at 8:36 AM..
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Old 12-09-2012, 8:37 AM
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A worthy favorite...a combat hero with a Doctorate from MIT.
you know your history
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Old 12-09-2012, 8:54 AM
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Sad, isn't it, how America's heros have changed from people whose intelligence, bravery, humanity, and hard work made the world a better place, to squeaky little pedophiles, brainless sluts, gutter gangsters, and rapists in basketball shoes. Instead of Helen Keller, we now have "Honey Boo Boo", and "Flava Flave" instead of Buckminster Fuller.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus von W. View Post
Sad, isn't it, how America's heros have changed from people whose intelligence, bravery, humanity, and hard work made the world a better place, to squeaky little pedophiles, brainless sluts, gutter gangsters, and rapists in basketball shoes. Instead of Helen Keller, we now have "Honey Boo Boo", and "Flava Flave" instead of Buckminster Fuller.
it is hard to cope with this changing country. honesty, hard work, self reliance are just things SUCKERS do now. milk the system, sue somebody, lie to people . leaders that do not have a clue. our leader has failed in every way and we re elect him.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTABIKER View Post
talked to a WW 11 vet the other day that was on the second wave at IWO JIMA. now that my friend is seeing some SHI**.
about 10 years ago i was camping and met a army Batan death march survivor. once a month i used to go to the chino plains of fame aircraft museum and here pilots tell their stories. i mean midway dog fight stuff. those are my heroes.
for 20 years i read everything about WW11 i could get my hands on. amazing history.
i am stuck in that history as to how i see the world today. my personal fav WW11 hero is Jimmy Doolittle. he did everything you can accomplish in 1 life time. turn off the ABC evening news and pick up a book. you will be way better informed. do not get me started.
herd the other day a teacher told the class WW eleven DOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Here are some scans of original US Navy pics of Doolittle prepping on the deck of the Hornet before the raid. My father had there in his files.









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What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.


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Old 12-09-2012, 2:27 PM
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wow thanks for sharing. as good as the German military was , nothing on earth was going to beat those americans.

i remember reading about a WW11 sub commander that new all about all the ULTRA secrets, his sub was damaged in the pacific and the crew was taken prisoner by the Japanese, he willingly gave up his life and went down with his sub because he figured under torture he would probably give up ULTRA and Japanese naval codes they did not know we had broken. now that folks is a HERO.
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Old 12-09-2012, 6:09 PM
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Interesting stories, comments and photos --
I have a little different view --
I lived the early part of the war, until '43, in the naval housing across barnett ave from the NTC and MCB san diego --
I remember the Devereaux twins -- nine year old girls whose dad, recentlly transfered to wake was captured -- We had no idea the horrors he would endure -- In fact I don't know if he did survive the war.
I remember Chief AP Canell - Yes there were a few enlisted pilots - our next door neighbor, stationed at NAS North Island and flying coastal patrols, crashing at sea and not being recovered -- His two daughters were my playmates --
I remember going to Lindberg field to see my granddad off, he was recalled to serve in the coast guard after retiring as a columbia river bar pilot.
The plane was what you would know as a B-24 converted to a transport but the naval was a PY-1 I think --
I remember corporal "bud" who was in my dad's motor transport company building me a bicycle from salvage military bikes, ( I used till I was 16years old), giving me ride in one of the small light tanks as they were unloaded from flat cars, then several years later gave me a ride in an alligator at camp pendleton boat basin -- He and my dad were now staioned there --
Several weeks later he was killed when one the alligators broached in the surf.
My dad left in feb 43 with the 12 amphibian tractor battalion which later became part of the sixth marine division -- they were on guam awaiting to become part of the invasion of japan when the war ended - They went instead to tsingtao china to accept surrender of the japanese forces there. He did not return until september '46.
A rather long time for youngster to be without a father -- But -- He did return -- so many did not ---

We tend to look at yesterday with today's eyes --
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Old 12-09-2012, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NOTABIKER View Post
wow thanks for sharing. as good as the German military was , nothing on earth was going to beat those americans.

i remember reading about a WW11 sub commander that new all about all the ULTRA secrets, his sub was damaged in the pacific and the crew was taken prisoner by the Japanese, he willingly gave up his life and went down with his sub because he figured under torture he would probably give up ULTRA and Japanese naval codes they did not know we had broken. now that folks is a HERO.
No doubt, Japan's biggest mistake was attacking the U.S. With neither the population or the resources to invade and conquer us, did they really think that with our population, resources, and industrial capacity that we would not mobilize all of those to deliver a monumental azz-kicking on them? Fighting the British, who were pretty occupied in their battle with Germany was one thing, but dragging us into it was about as about as smart as going up and bitsch-slapping a grizzley bear.

And as hard as Hitler tried to stay out of war with the U.S. in spite of all the provocations, Germany's stupid treaty with Japan - which served no purpose for Germany - dragged Germany into exactly that war. And Japan did not have the decency to even inform their German ally about their intentions. The American entry into WW1 is what turned the tide against Germany, and there was no reason to think another war with us would be any different.
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