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  #1  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:58 AM
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Default what is logic behind which animals can/can't be hunted?

I've heard "Well, no one eats seagulls" so you can't go around blasting them like you can with ducks.

But no one eats Bobcats and I don't think they are serious problem to any ranchers and chicken farming is all indoors anyways.

I hear it is illegal to waste deer meat, and you can eat bears but I don't think many bear hunters do.

Could a farmer blast seagulls if they were harming his crops? What about seagulls "creating a nuisance"? I knew a guy who lived on their main flying route from garbage dump to their water, and he hated them.

Is their any logic behind any of this or is it basically traditional and "public opinion" etc?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2012, 1:55 AM
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uh, i eat bear meat. my buddies who run the dogs eat the meat. the clients they run hounds for eat bear meat. i will eat bobcat meat if i kill one. both those animals are fur bearing.

nice generalizations, would you like to try again?

no de-pred on seagulls AFAIK. thats fed.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2012, 3:31 AM
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Believe it or not, many hunters are very fond of the taste of bobcat. Has a hint of sweetness/sugar to it. Also, when prepared correctly, coyote tastes delicious.
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Old 12-06-2012, 6:06 AM
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What about hawks? They seem to have some kind of holy status. Where I pheasant hunt there is one on every telephone pole, tree, etc. but hardly any pheasants left. Weird you can drive around shooting yotes starlings and groundsquirrels and leave them lay but other animals not. And I bet i see 20 or 300 hawks for every yote I see. Not to flame on hawks but just using them as an example.
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Old 12-06-2012, 7:59 AM
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IMO we use animals like bobcats for the fur, skulls, claws and to make fishing fly’s among other uses. And as mentioned some people like the taste of bobcat (the back strap). As for hawks we would wipe them out so they are federally protected and seagulls clean up the environment like buzzards and we would wipe them out too, they have no fear of humans like the kit fox.
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Old 12-06-2012, 7:59 AM
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IMO we use animals like bobcats for the fur, skulls, claws and to make fishing flys among other uses. And as mentioned some people like the taste of bobcat (the back strap). As for hawks we would wipe them out so they are federally protected and seagulls clean up the environment like buzzards and we would wipe them out too, they have no fear of humans like the kit fox.
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Old 12-06-2012, 8:26 AM
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This reminds me
I think crow season started.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2012, 8:35 AM
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What is considered game is primarily rooted in tradition. Besides from the obvious rare species, what is not considered game is primarily rooted in tradition as well and the feelings attached to that tradition.

We can't kill the beautiful and majestic swans, raptors, and song birds because most people in this state simply don't associate them with sport/food and/or think they are to majestic to kill.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:48 AM
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Which hunter in here who hunt bears doesnt eat the meat? Raise your hands....
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Old 12-06-2012, 9:54 AM
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OP, the logic is meat and fur. And vermin eradication. That's it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:11 AM
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Bear is delicious, never had bobcat.

Many species are protected for various reasons. Gulls for example were at one time hunted to the point of extinction early in our history but you wouldn't think so now.

That's usually the case with others as well and may have been a law passed long ago that never was changed or updated. Not that I think they would taste good anyway with what they eat.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:41 AM
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I like bear.
Nowdays the decisions are usually political and not based on research data. The fish and game dept is stuffed full of tree huggers and people who have little/no knowledge of hunting/fishing or the outdoors.
Some animals were once in such low numbers they needed protection. However now with all the politics you cannot get them un-listed. New ones protected even when they do not need to be will be next to impossible to un-list.
Tree hugger lawsuits etc usually trump over factual data.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:44 PM
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I have always wondered why the Desert Kit Fox is un-huntable. Ive heard rumors of him being endangered but I call in 10 times more of them than anything else.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:00 PM
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California does not manage our wildlife by using science the hound hunting ban is a good example. Our wildlife is managed by emotional ballot and legislators that don't have a clue.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2012, 6:33 AM
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I concur with duckman1. I think the "people who shoot bears (or insert other animal) don't eat the meat" is somewhat of an urban legend. Sure there are poachers who will kill a deer just for the rack or a bear for the gall bladder but they are not lawful hunters like the vast majority of us. Sometimes people confuse the two (hunters and poachers) but a reasonable answer of how they are different is a hunter is someone who walks into a bank and withdraws some $ out of their account. A poacher walks into a bank and hands the teller a note demanding some $. One of these actions is perfectly legal and accepted and the other is illegal.
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Old 12-07-2012, 6:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman1 View Post
California does not manage our wildlife by using science the hound hunting ban is a good example. Our wildlife is managed by emotional ballot and legislators that don't have a clue.
Please, there's plenty of science going on.
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Old 12-07-2012, 7:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton Fenty View Post
Please, there's plenty of science going on.
Obviously there is some sicence going on. I have several friends that work for F&G in the state. The truth is they are constrained by public outcry and legislation that is not based on science.

You can look to:

Mountain Lion Hunting Ban.

Lack of any significant buck to doe management.

Limitations on hound hunting for bear and cats.

Lead free hunting zones.

And others.....
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Old 12-07-2012, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman1 View Post
California does not manage our wildlife by using science the hound hunting ban is a good example. Our wildlife is managed by emotional ballot and legislators that don't have a clue.
bambi complex

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Originally Posted by Horton Fenty View Post
Please, there's plenty of science going on.
no one with half a brain uses common sense let alone sound science and logic in this state when it comes to game management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman1 View Post
Obviously there is some sicence going on. I have several friends that work for F&G in the state. The truth is they are constrained by public outcry and legislation that is not based on science.

You can look to:

Mountain Lion Hunting Ban.

Lack of any significant buck to doe management.

Limitations on hound hunting for bear and cats.

Lead free hunting zones.

And others.....
very true
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2012, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
no one with half a brain uses common sense let alone sound science and logic in this state when it comes to game management.
You can't say that, it's simply not true. I get around, talk to and meet lots of people involved in wildlife and fish management. My favorite guy to talk to is the biologist that hangs out down at the weir. He's a wealth of information on how fish populations are managed and it's all standard scientific method.
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Old 12-07-2012, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman1 View Post
Obviously there is some sicence going on. I have several friends that work for F&G in the state. The truth is they are constrained by public outcry and legislation that is not based on science.

You can look to:

Mountain Lion Hunting Ban.
Lack of any significant buck to doe management.

Limitations on hound hunting for bear and cats.

Lead free hunting zones.

And others.....
Mountain Lion Hunting Ban.......banned for private citizens (except with depredation permit).....otherwise perfectly legal for agents of the state to do. So it's morally and ethically wrong to hunt the Majestic Mtn. Lion as a private citizen......but noble and honorable to do so on the tax payers dime as a state agent.
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horton Fenty View Post
You can't say that, it's simply not true. I get around, talk to and meet lots of people involved in wildlife and fish management. My favorite guy to talk to is the biologist that hangs out down at the weir. He's a wealth of information on how fish populations are managed and it's all standard scientific method.
I think what they are trying to say Horton is that the people who are the biologists can pass their recommendations along but bureuacrats make the final decisions. An example is doe hunts. While it's perfectly legal for a county commissioner (I think that's the postiion that gets the final say but it's a quick google and been discussed on here many times) to schedule a anterless or doe hunt most don't b/c of the public outcry that follows.

I think fish are an easier thing for the bureaucrats to keep their hands off b/c they aren't cute or cuddly so the public doesn't really get attached to a steelhead vs. a cute mountain kitty.
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Old 12-07-2012, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdogg21 View Post
I think what they are trying to say Horton is that the people who are the biologists can pass their recommendations along but bureuacrats make the final decisions. An example is doe hunts. While it's perfectly legal for a county commissioner (I think that's the postiion that gets the final say but it's a quick google and been discussed on here many times) to schedule a anterless or doe hunt most don't b/c of the public outcry that follows.
Basically doe hunts are suggested to the counties by the DFG since counties do not have the wildlife biologists to do the research and recommendations themselves.
The county Fish & Game commissions act as a liaison between DFG and the county Board of Supervisors. They are a "advisory commission" to the Board of Supervisors. They may recommend and support DFG's request for a doe hunt to the Board of Supervisors, but it's up to the supervisors for final approval. That's where the politics come in, because the supervisors will have to consider the opinions of their constituents.
A lot of people don't realize that there are hundreds of doe/antlerless tags issued every year, but most are usually archery, muzzleloader, or junior hunts.
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Old 12-07-2012, 3:34 PM
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Some of you guys seem to assume that legislation passed in Sacramento is the direct result of DFG recommendations. You couldn't be more wrong.

DFG biologists have for instance been recommending for years that hunting of female deer be reopened in the state. But it's a county by county decision, and no county wants 1. to be the one with an open season on Bambi's mom and 2. be swarmed by hunters coming from the rest of the state.

Some legislation stems from recommendations from the DFG. But most of the ones we've seen over the past decades doesn't.
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Old 12-07-2012, 3:46 PM
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Looking at this years Big Game booklet, there were 3,810 either/sex, or antlerless tags available. Doe hunts do happen, but like I said, they are mostly muzzleloader, archery, or junior (apprentice) hunts.
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Old 12-07-2012, 4:24 PM
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Please, there's plenty of science going on.
Sure there is. It's just not used for decision making the way it should.
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Old 12-07-2012, 8:28 PM
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Looking at this years Big Game booklet, there were 3,810 either/sex, or antlerless tags available. Doe hunts do happen, but like I said, they are mostly muzzleloader, archery, or junior (apprentice) hunts.
And PLM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 9:36 AM
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Animals that should be open for hunting include the following:

Kit Fox (we can't hunt them, but we can sure allow 100's of acres of solar panel arrays to be built smack dab in the middle of their territories).

Red Fox (we can't hunt them because of the Sierra Nevada Red Fox, which typically occurs above 4000')

Tree Squirrel West of Interstate 5 in SoCal (I was told by DFG that their populations were low in that area. It has been closed for 25+ years, time for a new study)

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