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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 12-05-2012, 4:51 PM
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You do not need to spend like a rich man to do what you need to do. Nor do you need to follow the so called leader.
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xibunkrlilkidsx View Post
Snipers


Those guys. Prof Shooters. not snipers

You are right, those are snipers and that is a professional NRA High Power competitor. That list in the first post is from the Precision Rifle Series Finale held this past weekend at Rifles Only. It has nothing to do with the High Power discipline. Here are some pictures from the 2012 GAP Grind, similar to the PRS Finale.





Now picture shooting off of those positions, shooting at usually small steel targets under time and mental stress.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
Yes these are competitors, and yes they are sponsored, but keep in mind that they are without a doubt professionals. The reason they use 6mm is because of the advantages that those cartridges offer. It's not that they can't shoot a 308 with skill, but if two guys have the same skill level the 6mm will out perform the 308. They are competitors so they look for every available competitive advantage.

Most of these guys could out shoot most of us with factory rifles and "low" end scopes.

Also, these types of competitions are not easy. It's not bench shooting. They aren't sitting there with gizmos and iPhones taking their time to make perfect shots. They have to understand the limits of their equipment, and more importantly themselves, under unknown distances, obstacles and time constraints. Discounting the shooter is the same as saying an F1 driver is good because of the car they drive.
Yeah, it looks like fun and I don't think anyone is disputing the fact they can shoot; but, that doesn't make them snipers. Competition shooting and tactical shooting aren't the same thing. The purpose is different, so gear choices are also different. Since this is a gear based thread, that's really the main point. But much like 3 gun competitors or pistol shooting competitors, just because one can shoot doesn't make them a Tier 1 Operator. Doesn't mean they can't shoot, because they can; but they're still very different things.
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  #44  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by postal View Post
A lot of people are getting into the bushnells because they are high quality with the right features, and are WAY cheaper than the other brands with similar features.

I'll have one soon. At least 4 of them are at my local precision rifle competition.

.


Me too. The Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21x50 HDMR G2DMR is on my short list for my trainer
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  #45  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Striker View Post
Yeah, it looks like fun and I don't think anyone is disputing the fact they can shoot; but, that doesn't make them snipers. Competition shooting and tactical shooting aren't the same thing. The purpose is different, so gear choices are also different. Since this is a gear based thread, that's really the main point. But much like 3 gun competitors or pistol shooting competitors, just because one can shoot doesn't make them a Tier 1 Operator. Doesn't mean they can't shoot, because they can; but they're still very different things.
And you maybe right, but the original post on Snipers Hide doesn't refer to them as snipers, just the OP who reposted. My other comments are directed those those nitpicking equipment or stating that the equipment is the reason why the shooters are better.
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  #46  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xibunkrlilkidsx View Post
Snipers


Those guys. Prof Shooters. not snipers
So by your standards what would you call this USMC shooter?


Or these shooters at the International Sniper Challenge which runs simlar stages?
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We do not have an assault weapons ban. We have a ban on some semiautomatic rifles.

It is not a CCW permit. It is a carry license.

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  #47  
Old 12-05-2012, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
So by your standards what would you call this USMC shooter?


Or these shooters at the International Sniper Challenge which runs simlar stages?
I'd call them "people shooting in a match who may happen to also be snipers, but are not "sniping" in those matches". Just because you're shooting in a match form various positions, does not make you a "sniper".
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2012, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
I'll add that it seems like a very low participation percentage considering the size of their community.

All the competitors on that list are the cumulative top 50 shooters from 15 different matches all over the country over the past year. Everyone on that list earned their spot. For 98% of precision rifle matches, the registration fills up in less than 1 minute.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2012, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xibunkrlilkidsx View Post
Snipers


Those guys. Prof Shooters. not snipers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofasterdammit View Post
You are right, those are snipers and that is a professional NRA High Power competitor. That list in the first post is from the Precision Rifle Series Finale held this past weekend at Rifles Only. It has nothing to do with the High Power discipline. Here are some pictures from the 2012 GAP Grind, similar to the PRS Finale.





Now picture shooting off of those positions, shooting at usually small steel targets under time and mental stress.
Brutal... If the targets were armed and could shoot back if you missed, even more brutal...
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  #50  
Old 12-05-2012, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
Me too. The Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21x50 HDMR G2DMR is on my short list for my trainer
Look up Short Action Precision for a deal on the G2DMR's.

He's a member here and at CAPRC and a great guy to deal with.
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  #51  
Old 12-05-2012, 9:20 PM
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you guys are funny here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cTxCL83NTk
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2012, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by khw9mm View Post
Look up Short Action Precision for a deal on the G2DMR's.

He's a member here and at CAPRC and a great guy to deal with.
Thanx. Im picking up a Savage .22 trainer from Charlie next week.
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:37 PM
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No 338 LM?
No 308 Win?
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  #54  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:43 PM
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Merc1138 are you a military or law enforcement "sniper"? Are you a competitive shooter?

I'm just curious, what kind of shooting do you do, because you seem to know clearly what differentiates one shooter from another.
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  #55  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:47 PM
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its easy when you have sponsors....
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  #56  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
So by your standards what would you call this USMC shooter?
That ain't no Devil Dog. Even your image link says he's an AMU (ArmyMarksmenShipUnit) shooter. Staff Sgt. Scott Grant US Army.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickstarfish View Post
No 338 LM?
No 308 Win?
Nope, none of those. Most of the calibers used in that competition are wind cheater calibers. They heavily negate the winds influence on the round due to their ballistic nature.
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  #57  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:16 PM
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Plisk, you are correct. That's my bad but it was really to illustrate a point. I have a friend that was a USMC marksman instructor and he competed.

I was illustrating that a professional marksmen has skill beyond a tile, and professionalism in a trade should not be underestimated.
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We do not have an assault weapons ban. We have a ban on some semiautomatic rifles.

It is not a CCW permit. It is a carry license.

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  #58  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
Merc1138 are you a military or law enforcement "sniper"? Are you a competitive shooter?

I'm just curious, what kind of shooting do you do, because you seem to know clearly what differentiates one shooter from another.
So much fail in one post...

No, I am not. I'm also not a horse trainer, and I can tell the difference between a horse and a zebra. Because of my amazingly mediocre powers of observation, I have been able to determine that the gentlemen in the pictures you posted are not sniping. Instead of sniping, they are shooting in matches. As I said, it is entirely possible that the people in the pictures you posted are indeed snipers, it's just that they're shooting in a competition in the pictures you posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
I'd call them "people shooting in a match who may happen to also be snipers, but are not "sniping" in those matches". Just because you're shooting in a match form various positions, does not make you a "sniper".
Now maybe you can't spot the obvious giveaways in the first image of the Army Staff Sgt. you posted(did you not read the URL as you were pasting it? Heck, he even has a US Army sticker or some sort of logo clearly visible on the mag well, with another kind of obscured on the back of his hat), however I'm pretty sure that a shooting jacket, shooting glove, and m1907 sling, and stainless barrels on an m16 are not currently issued equipment for folks in combat. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not.
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  #59  
Old 12-06-2012, 7:10 AM
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Based on the threads here on Calguns, I thought there were only three types of shooters:
Snipers
Tactical Operators
Zombie Killers

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  #60  
Old 12-06-2012, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Gofasterdammit View Post
You are right, those are snipers and that is a professional NRA High Power competitor. That list in the first post is from the Precision Rifle Series Finale held this past weekend at Rifles Only. It has nothing to do with the High Power discipline. Here are some pictures from the 2012 GAP Grind, similar to the PRS Finale.





Now picture shooting off of those positions, shooting at usually small steel targets under time and mental stress.
None of those guys have any barrel or silhouette discipline, but none is needed for the competition. Shooting =/= sniping.

-W
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  #61  
Old 12-06-2012, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by klewan View Post
Looks like just about all of them handload and use Hodgdon 4350 powder. I wonder what's special about 4350?
It makes 6-6.5MM bullets fly really well.
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  #62  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:17 AM
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Originally Posted by starsnuffer View Post
None of those guys have any barrel or silhouette discipline, but none is needed for the competition. Shooting =/= sniping.

-W

The match director tells you what your position is. You dont get to choose. "use this barricade to support your rifle. 3 shots from the top level, 3 from the middle, and 3 from the bottom. You have 1 minute."

The barricade is not a window in a room... You dont have an hour to move a table in the back of the room, hang sheets, cut a loop hole, etc... and set whatever position you want...

It's more of, "here's the problem. Overcome it."

One match, they had a regular 6 ft aluminum folding ladder. "you will support your rifle *somehow* on this ladder." -you could pick any step or position, but the rifle is resting on the ladder...

The last match I went to, had 6 SWAT snipers, and 5-6 Marine Corp snipers with at least 1 if not 2 sniper school instructors. That match was won by a civilian. I believe 2nd place was a 308. (SWAT)

338 and similar is usually not allowed, because some of the courses of fire, multiple people are shooting at the same time, and end up close together. The 338/bmg will rock everyone else on the line with every shot.

They arent practical anyway for this style of competition. Try shooting a 338/bmg standing/kneeling/sitting unsupported....

Last edited by postal; 12-06-2012 at 9:32 AM..
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  #63  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:39 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
Me too. The Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21x50 HDMR G2DMR is on my short list for my trainer

Yup. Thats the hot ticket right now! I want one bad..... but I need to wait for the budget...
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  #64  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:55 AM
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Get the new, unreleased Bushnell 4X30 for over $700 while you can.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...62#Post3730062
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  #65  
Old 12-06-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
What pros?
These guys are competitors and gamers (mighty good ones).

I would think the “Pros” use whatever their organization tells them to.
Yup exactly. What makes the guys on the list "snipers?" Are they actually sniping human targets and gathering intel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Redneck View Post
Don't tell that to the Marine Corps! My son is a USMC scout/sniper.

.308 with a Schmidt and Bender is the standard for them.
Every single sniper I've talked to in the service (which is only a few) was using a .308 also.
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  #66  
Old 12-06-2012, 11:09 AM
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Very few of the shooters on that list are real professionals. Most are weekend warriors that paid the required money to be a part of the series. Not saying they aren't talented, but real professionals they are not.
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  #67  
Old 12-06-2012, 1:23 PM
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This thread has a lot of misinformation, misconceptions, and uninformed comments.

Few of these guys are actual professionals. Most of these guys and gals are spending their own money.

It is a competition discipline that is no different than shooting USPSA, NRA Highpower, or any other shooting "game."
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  #68  
Old 12-06-2012, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugerNo1 View Post
This thread has a lot of misinformation, misconceptions, and uninformed comments.

Few of these guys are actual professionals. Most of these guys and gals are spending their own money.

It is a competition discipline that is no different than shooting USPSA, NRA Highpower, or any other shooting "game."
Well put.
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Old 12-06-2012, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
The match director tells you what your position is. You dont get to choose. "use this barricade to support your rifle. 3 shots from the top level, 3 from the middle, and 3 from the bottom. You have 1 minute."

The barricade is not a window in a room... You dont have an hour to move a table in the back of the room, hang sheets, cut a loop hole, etc... and set whatever position you want...

It's more of, "here's the problem. Overcome it."

One match, they had a regular 6 ft aluminum folding ladder. "you will support your rifle *somehow* on this ladder." -you could pick any step or position, but the rifle is resting on the ladder...

The last match I went to, had 6 SWAT snipers, and 5-6 Marine Corp snipers with at least 1 if not 2 sniper school instructors. That match was won by a civilian. I believe 2nd place was a 308. (SWAT)

338 and similar is usually not allowed, because some of the courses of fire, multiple people are shooting at the same time, and end up close together. The 338/bmg will rock everyone else on the line with every shot.

They arent practical anyway for this style of competition. Try shooting a 338/bmg standing/kneeling/sitting unsupported....
Where was that shoot you went to at? I made a thread a while back about wanting to check some local events like this out.
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Old 12-06-2012, 2:00 PM
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Where was that shoot you went to at? I made a thread a while back about wanting to check some local events like this out.
Check out caprc.com or ncpprc.com depending if your So Cal or Nor Cal.
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Old 12-06-2012, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Short Action Precision View Post
Check out caprc.com or ncpprc.com depending if your So Cal or Nor Cal.
Excellent. CAPRC would be it for me. What would an event like this be called specifically? Not interested in watching bench rest nor prone only shooting(although I'd love to participate in the future).
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  #72  
Old 12-06-2012, 2:08 PM
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Are they "Professionals?" Sure, why not? Just like professional hockey players, baseball players, basketball players and football players. Or more like professional tennis and golf players really (since they are not paid by a team, but are paid by sponsors).

You don't have to kill someone to be a "professional" in a SPORT. And let's not let the anti's forget that shooting is a SPORT for most of us.
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  #73  
Old 12-06-2012, 2:20 PM
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Excellent. CAPRC would be it for me. What would an event like this be called specifically? Not interested in watching bench rest nor prone only shooting(although I'd love to participate in the future).
"Precision Bolt Rifle" competition. CAPRC holds monthly matches at Angeles, good times with a good group of guys.

There's also PBR at WEGC which also holds monthlies (for the most part). The match that Postal was referring to was held there last month. Check out socalprc.com
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  #74  
Old 12-06-2012, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
Are they "Professionals?" Sure, why not? Just like professional hockey players, baseball players, basketball players and football players. Or more like professional tennis and golf players really (since they are not paid by a team, but are paid by sponsors).

You don't have to kill someone to be a "professional" in a SPORT. And let's not let the anti's forget that shooting is a SPORT for most of us.
None of them are paid by their sponsors. Sponsorship is limited to supplying rifles, ammo, optics, etc. Maybe occasionally entry fees. And that is only for a small percentage of the competitors.
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  #75  
Old 12-06-2012, 8:28 PM
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None of them are paid by their sponsors. Sponsorship is limited to supplying rifles, ammo, optics, etc. Maybe occasionally entry fees. And that is only for a small percentage of the competitors.
You don't consider rifles, ammo, and optics, payment(s)? Really?
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  #76  
Old 12-06-2012, 8:43 PM
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Fun reading.
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  #77  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:07 PM
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You don't consider rifles, ammo, and optics, payment(s)? Really?
No I don't. You can't pay bills with them unless you sell them. They aren't able to make a living shooting tac rifle matches. In fact, most matches of this type do not have cash payouts.
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  #78  
Old 12-06-2012, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by patriot_man View Post
Stillers, Surgeon... I wish I had the money for that kind of stuff.

S&B and USO are still pretty prominent on the list as well.
no kidding, and people are crying over the price of a decent optic
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Old 12-06-2012, 9:28 PM
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Gofasterdammit Gofasterdammit is offline
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This thread title needs to be changed and the guys making comments, assumptions, and statements about this sport should spend some time on Sniper's Hide and Tactical Matches.com forum and educate themselves. Fact: The competitors on that list are not snipers with the exception of a few names. The competitions that they and I participate in are not branded "sniper" matches, they are precision rifle matches. Not all of the shooters on that list are sponsored. 95% of the names on that list have normal everyday 9-5 jobs and MIGHT get a discount on barrels, bullets, brass. No companies are writing me checks and I'm in $10k this past year for travel, barrels, brass, bullets, powders, equipment and entry fees.
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Old 12-07-2012, 7:46 AM
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Since the Original Poster got those table from this post A nice list of what equipment the top Precision Rifle Series long range shooters used in 2012.

It seems strange he would use such a misleading thread title here. If you want to read through the discussion at that link it talks all about this particular competition.
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