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Commercial Sales For the Commercial sales of Firearms and Accessories. Read the rules before posting. |
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#41
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there was a request - response was "seek legal counsel to make this determination"... not sure what an additional request would achieve.
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#42
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that's not really how the state DOJ operates.
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. “Keep it up, America, keep telling your youth that mud and danger are fit only for intellectual pigs. Keep on saying that only the stupid are fit to sacrifice, that America must be defended by the low-brow and enjoyed by the high-brow. Keep vaunting head over heart, and soon the head will arrive at the complete folly of any kind of fight and meekly surrender the treasure to the first bandit with enough heart to demand it.” (Robert Leckie) |
#44
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I’ll respond to everyone’s concerns with a statement about why Thordsen Customs stands by the FRS-15 Featureless Rifle Stock.
We’ve spent over a year studying case law, penal code, geometry of firearms, and natural form to develop this design. We’ve gone through dozens of design concepts searching for the perfect balance between comfort and conformance. You may recall several months ago, we had two survey posts asking specific information about hand dimensions and stock lengths. We received hundreds of responses to those posts and the data was used to develop the length, arcs, and angles of the design. We’ve conducted several focus groups, surveyed hundreds of people at guns shows, several of whom were law enforcement (hell, some of them could have been undercover DOJ for all I know), and customers that visit our shop. The overwhelming majority of whom liked the fit and comfort and when asked what they would classify it as, pistol grip or rifle stock? The answer was overwhelmingly, “rifle stock”. Of course, none of this means squat to a prosecutor, but it has helped to guide the final design. We submitted our design to DOJ for approval and received the standard form letter of non opinion (see attached). We followed the directive given to us to seek legal counsel. We consulted three firearms defense attorneys to satisfy DOJs directive (two of which were former district attorneys in California counties and had tried firearms cases). We submitted a draft to the ATF Technology Branch for an opinion and their reply was that they have no jurisdiction over California law (see attached). The fourth and final attorney we consulted was a specialist in 2A law. We finally decided that it was time to make it public. All attorneys agreed that the FRS-15 Featureless Rifle Stock when assembled with other non featured parts, DOES NOT qualify as an assault weapon under Penal Code 30515 (a) and is defensible in court. Sadly, in cases like Haynee vs Pleasanton or People vs. Haack and Haack, someone may still get arrested. No one can control whether a peace officer understands the subtleties of the law. I personally have been transporting, demonstrating, and shooting an FRS-15 Featureless Rifle stock for nearly a year now. I used one at my last tactical training class. One of the students was even a CHP officer. I’ve had it displayed openly on our table at the last few gun shows. A couple of State Police officers, at the Cal Expo show a couple of weeks ago, thought it was very cool and didn’t see a problem with it (I suppose this was confirmed because they didn’t arrest me) as did a Solano County Sheriff’s Deputy at the Vallejo show this past weekend. It’s an entirely different world from when the cases noted above were tried. Police and corrections officers are far better educated now especially since they have to follow many of the same rules that we do with their personal firearms and are just as vulnerable to prosecution as we are. I thank Gene Hoffman for his bump!! There’s no way to describe the incredible boost of confidence we received from those few words. With all of this said. If our product is still too close to the edge for comfort for some people we totally respect that. It took several months for the UBBT to be accepted by the market and now after nearly four years, it is one of the best known enhancements for the AR enthusiast. Thordo Last edited by Thordo; 12-04-2012 at 2:23 PM.. |
#45
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I added some profile pics of the fit and grasp of the stock to the OP. Don't pay attention to my bald round head
Also. I changed the email address to send inquiries about the FRS stock to. It was too hard to sort out dealers for our regular products with FRS stock orders and we don't want anyone to get lost. We're still sorting it out and will start responding to emails tomorrow. Thordo |
#46
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^^^ I can't speak for others, but I appreciate all that you have done (and are doing) for us enthusiasts in this restrictive state...
I was interested in reading the two attachments mentioned - but they aren't there
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#47
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Thordo |
#49
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thanks... considering CA DOJ didn't even address you by correct name, It's no surprise that they couldn't help with the unit's legality.
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#50
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Yeah, we thought that was really funny. It's either a "fill in the blanks" form letter done by an intern (possible future governor?) or by design.
Thordo |
#52
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It would be like if you were at an event with a name tag that says "Hello my name is Bohoki"... and the attorney general walked up and said "Hi Jim".
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"RIGHT POWER!" ----------------------------- Last edited by retired; 02-21-2014 at 1:08 PM.. |
#53
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I fixed the lancer pic. I agree. I've switched all my USGI mags out for Lancers. They are awesome!! Thordo |
#54
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Last edited by retired; 02-21-2014 at 1:08 PM.. |
#56
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I've hated all the other featureless stocks and have only built BB rifles because of it to go along side my RAW. This one looks the best and most comfortable by far and I may try one out.
I'd also like to know if an A1 length will be offered. And why did you choose PC/ABS? Simply because they solvent weld the easiest? It isn't the best choice for chemical resistance. Many solvents and cleaners will easily ruin it. Since you are injection molding, why not use a better suited material and sonic weld the two halves together? Heck, I wouldn't even mind if the two halves were screwed together.
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____________________________________ A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. |
#57
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Please direct all technical questions to our new thread in the New Products forum by following this link. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=652775 Thordo Last edited by Thordo; 12-05-2012 at 10:09 AM.. |
#58
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I'll add... Would http://www.calgunlawyers.com/ consider this good to go ? If it passes muster from above, and it will handle 458 Socom recoil...I will be getting one for sure. |
#61
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What crazy upper is that with the barrel shroud/handguard thing. That is a wild looking setup and am a little curious about it.
VERY cool product BTW and I'll probably buy one for my 3rd build. I have 2 right now and one featureless, one with a JTROCKS BB that is easily removed for featureless, and my last one will probably be this setup now. Does it come with a buffer tube, or anything, or whats the situation there. (It may be there, but I went through the info on it pretty fast.) |
#62
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is this code talk for "production will be ready to purchase this weekend"?
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#63
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Thordo |
#66
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Give us some feedback!! Thordo |
#69
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Man this thing pisses me off. It just shows the extremes that we need to go through.
That said its nice to see people like yourself adjusting to the stupid Cali laws.
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#72
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I would probably get on if it didn't block off the rounded portion of the lower receiver, so I could access the selector switch AND if the price were right. I don't know why everyone wants to block that off (especially magpull w/ their pistol grips...) when it would be more ergonomic to me to be able to reach that selector more-quickly.
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#73
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Back on topic. My only concern would be the imaginary line from the top of the trigger to the web of the hand and that DOJ may still construe this as a pistol grip.
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____________________________________ A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. |
#78
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Where?
I don't go to California gunshows anymore (since I'm not really into bumper stickers, beef jerky, or dolls). At what stores in Sacramento will these stocked?
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When am I going to see Dragunov OLLs for sale?? |
#80
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Production model stocks will not be available until late February into March. We will not be approaching any of our dealers until probably late January. The backlog for pre production machined stocks is currently 3-4 weeks. Thordo |
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