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  #1  
Old 11-27-2012, 9:30 PM
Malco Malco is offline
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Default FFL Transaction Paper Trail

Hello friends,

I am confused, which is no big surprise. I am a new California FFL, and I want to make sure I don't leave anything out. I am going to sell a handgun I ordered for a customer and received yesterday. I ordered the gun from Bud's, and they sent me a receipt and the CFLC Firearms Shipment Approval form. I entered the handgun Description and Receipt into my Acquisitions and Disposition Records Book, using the date I received the handgun as the receipt date, and not the date the buyer shows up. Right?

The buyer is coming tomorrow. I know I have the buyer fill out a 4473 form, and I enter their information onto DROS and scan their CA driver's license (or CA ID card). So now, in the new file folder I have opened for this transaction, I have inserted:

--The CFLC approval letter
--Firearm Invoice (for my record)
--The completed 4473 form
--A printed copy of the completed and entered DROS form

Ten days after the DROS, when my customer comes back to take possession of his new handgun (assuming his DROS isn't rejected), I will then enter the Disposition Date, Buyer's Name, and the 4473 form # (101, for example). Do I also complete an ATF form 5300.5 (Report of Firearms Transaction) before I send my happy customer on his way, or is that redundant and unnecessary?

Have I missed anything? Can I merely place this folder into my filing cabinet for the foreseeable future? I knew I should have taken better noted when the nice ATF agent came to interview me! I am very thankful that you longtime CalGuns contributors are willing to provide such a valuable educational resource to those of us with less experience and knowledge!

Thank you,

--Malcolm

Last edited by Malco; 11-27-2012 at 9:42 PM..
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2012, 7:36 AM
tenpercentfirearms's Avatar
tenpercentfirearms tenpercentfirearms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malco View Post
Hello friends,

I am confused, which is no big surprise. I am a new California FFL, and I want to make sure I don't leave anything out. I am going to sell a handgun I ordered for a customer and received yesterday. I ordered the gun from Bud's, and they sent me a receipt and the CFLC Firearms Shipment Approval form. I entered the handgun Description and Receipt into my Acquisitions and Disposition Records Book, using the date I received the handgun as the receipt date, and not the date the buyer shows up. Right?

The buyer is coming tomorrow. I know I have the buyer fill out a 4473 form, and I enter their information onto DROS and scan their CA driver's license (or CA ID card). So now, in the new file folder I have opened for this transaction, I have inserted:

--The CFLC approval letter
--Firearm Invoice (for my record)
--The completed 4473 form
--A printed copy of the completed and entered DROS form

Ten days after the DROS, when my customer comes back to take possession of his new handgun (assuming his DROS isn't rejected), I will then enter the Disposition Date, Buyer's Name, and the 4473 form # (101, for example). Do I also complete an ATF form 5300.5 (Report of Firearms Transaction) before I send my happy customer on his way, or is that redundant and unnecessary?

Have I missed anything? Can I merely place this folder into my filing cabinet for the foreseeable future? I knew I should have taken better noted when the nice ATF agent came to interview me! I am very thankful that you longtime CalGuns contributors are willing to provide such a valuable educational resource to those of us with less experience and knowledge!

Thank you,

--Malcolm
Here is how I do my paperwork.

Firearm arrives from vendor. It gets logged into bound book and CFLC number is stored electronically on my back up bound book Excel sheet. CFLC papers are thrown away. Vendor receipt is entered into point of sale and filed in receipts file.

Customer starts DROS. 4473, DROS, and copies of DL, and if applicable HSC Cardand proof of residence. Sales order is made in point of sale.

Customer comes to pick up. 4473, DROS, copies of documents, Safe Handling Demonstration, copy of sales receipt, and paperwork checklist is stapled together and filed accoring to 4473 control number generated from point of sale receipt number.

Entire packets are stored in large white file boxes in numerical order.

Other people like to separate the DROS from the 4473s since you can throw DROS away earlier than 4473s and it keeps the different agencies from snooping into each other's documents.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2012, 8:40 AM
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eltee eltee is offline
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IF you collect them (lots of discussion on it), a way of documenting taxes charged on purchases.

For handguns, I note on the DROS that a CA approved lock was given/sold.
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2012, 10:07 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malco View Post
I entered the handgun Description and Receipt into my Acquisitions and Disposition Records Book, using the date I received the handgun as the receipt date, and not the date the buyer shows up. Right?
Yes, it is based on when you receive the firearm.

Quote:
The buyer is coming tomorrow. I know I have the buyer fill out a 4473 form, and I enter their information onto DROS and scan their CA driver's license (or CA ID card). So now, in the new file folder I have opened for this transaction, I have inserted:

--The CFLC approval letter
--Firearm Invoice (for my record)
--The completed 4473 form
--A printed copy of the completed and entered DROS form
You don't need to scan their DL/ID unless the card reader does not work. For a handgun, you also need proof of residency (for CA, a CA ID/DL is not acceptable for proof of residency, although it is still required). You would also need a copy of the person's HSC, unless they are exempt.

I have some example files for what I use:

http://www.net-ffl.com/examples.html

Take a look at the checklist, which I suggest you use to ensure you don't forget something. Don't check the box until after you actually do it, not that you intend to do it next.

Quote:
Ten days after the DROS, when my customer comes back to take possession of his new handgun (assuming his DROS isn't rejected), I will then enter the Disposition Date, Buyer's Name, and the 4473 form # (101, for example). Do I also complete an ATF form 5300.5 (Report of Firearms Transaction) before I send my happy customer on his way, or is that redundant and unnecessary?
5300.5 is only used in response to a BATF request (see instructions item 5 for the form).

You need to enter the date and time on the DROS form, have the customer sign the 4473 again and at some point, unless they are exempt, you need to do the HSC safety demo.

Quote:
Have I missed anything?
Yes, see above.

Quote:
Can I merely place this folder into my filing cabinet for the foreseeable future? I knew I should have taken better noted when the nice ATF agent came to interview me! I am very thankful that you longtime CalGuns contributors are willing to provide such a valuable educational resource to those of us with less experience and knowledge!
Yes, you can file it. There are multiple ways you can file it. Chronological is the easy way in my opinion. You need to keep it for 20 years or you can send it to the BATF if you go out of business. Denied forms only need to be retained for, I think, 5 years (would have to confirm that, but I just keep them).
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2012, 4:35 PM
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kingsfan8888 kingsfan8888 is offline
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what if the buyer doesn't have a reciept or invoice?
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2012, 3:21 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Originally Posted by kingsfan8888 View Post
what if the buyer doesn't have a reciept or invoice?
Well, since the FFL is responsible for the sales tax and since there is typically a receipt if the firearm is from a business and perhaps an auction web page, if the buyer refuses to provide a receipt, it would be reasonable for the FFL to refuse to do the transfer.
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