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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 11-17-2012, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Meplat1 View Post
Read post #12.
You are right, didn't see it.

He's a retired cop, move as far away as possible to a state that is shall issue.
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  #42  
Old 11-17-2012, 4:15 PM
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So should she leave her firearm at home and be without it in a life threatening situation and die? I always wonder why people tend to post that leaving it at home is better until some undescribed level of training is reach.
Politics aside, she is denied use of her weapon either way. Instead of it being locked up at home its locked up on her person. 6 in one and half dozen in the other.
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  #43  
Old 11-17-2012, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gunsandrockets View Post
The only problem with this advice is what if the goblin finds out about it? As a cop he could easily have her disarmed, all nice and legal, by using his cop buddies.

If it wasn't for that factor, I would have to agree that illegal carry is the most practical solution. But as I pointed out, that is off the table due to the circumstances. No doubt something the OP already took into account.

Yep, ULCC is the only option for carrying a firearm as long as she remains in California.
Sorry, but you are dead wrong (especially in that last statement). One simple solution: don't TELL anyone she is doing it. That's pretty much common sense in this case. Plus she can travel out of her jurisdiction (out of state would be optimal) to get the proper training to gain the necessary "skills" involved for the reflexes and speed she may need if it is ever called for. Then your so-called "goblins" won't be any the wiser. That's how my acquaintance did it and he/she has been carrying loaded concealed for several years now after it was obvious the local "cops" didn't "want" this person carrying for their own arbitrary reasons (this person even had LTC's already from other states when they applied, which was also conveniently "cast aside"), while they gave them out like candy to anyone else (some with rap sheets as long as your arm) who applied and/or appealed a denial.
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  #44  
Old 11-17-2012, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Meplat1 View Post
Two questions. Can TSA open those locks? And why would you label a covert carry bag with 5.11? 5.11 screams GUN!
Yes, TSA can open it, but why is it relevant?!
As for 5.11 label, nobody pays attention to it. These who do would guess what is in the bag anyway. But in my experience NOBODY pays ANY attention to this thing

If you want, you can always cut out the 5.11 label too.
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  #45  
Old 11-17-2012, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by supersonic View Post
Sorry, but you are dead wrong (especially in that last statement). One simple solution: don't TELL anyone she is doing it. That's pretty much common sense in this case. Plus she can travel out of her jurisdiction (out of state would be optimal) to get the proper training to gain the necessary "skills" involved for the reflexes and speed she may need if it is ever called for. Then your so-called "goblins" won't be any the wiser. That's how my acquaintance did it and he/she has been carrying loaded concealed for several years now after it was obvious the local "cops" didn't "want" this person carrying for their own arbitrary reasons (this person even had LTC's already from other states when they applied, which was also conveniently "cast aside"), while they gave them out like candy to anyone else (some with rap sheets as long as your arm) who applied and/or appealed a denial.
I would bet that they are checking from time to time to see if mom registers a pistol in her name.
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  #46  
Old 11-17-2012, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vladbutsky View Post
Yes, TSA can open it, but why is it relevant?!
As for 5.11 label, nobody pays attention to it. These who do would guess what is in the bag anyway. But in my experience NOBODY pays ANY attention to this thing

If you want, you can always cut out the 5.11 label too.
Not sure why it's relevant, just makes me uneasy. I would take a razor blade to the stitching that holds on the 5.11 label. Just me.
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  #47  
Old 11-18-2012, 6:46 AM
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I am not advocating that one does things illegally but... hate that but thing! If one truly feels there is somebody who specifically wants them dead, maimed, etc. they, in my opinion need to take all reasonable measures to ensure that they return home. ULCC is one of those tools. I did it for years and thanks to this website and persistance managed a LTC. If memory serves me correctly, I think there is an exception to being allowed to carry concealed if the threat is eminent. Some of the legal eagles on this site I'm sure has the dope on that.

Other thoughts, I would not be crazy about my Mom carrying unless she 1. was trained and reasonably proficient 2.) Knows the law and can "Mom Up" if she has to deal with consequences. Bear in mind, Here in the Golden State it going to cost lots and lots of real gold even in a "good shoot".
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  #48  
Old 11-18-2012, 7:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlie50 View Post

Other thoughts, I would not be crazy about my Mom carrying unless she 1. was trained and reasonably proficient 2.) Knows the law and can "Mom Up" if she has to deal with consequences. Bear in mind, Here in the Golden State it going to cost lots and lots of real gold even in a "good shoot".
LOL, Not crazy about it? Mom up? What about the real facts here of being murdered without defense available because of YOUR concerns. Are you superior to her mentally? Physically to handle a hand gun?

A good shoot is a shoot that saved her life! Who cares what it costs! A good shoot does not nessesarily cost money. A DA will look at the evidence, make a determination about the event and decide from there.

What's important is that "Mom" is not a dead person.
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  #49  
Old 11-18-2012, 7:11 AM
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Tapers, I think Charlie was implying that she may or may not be proficient and/or mentally prepared to make that shot/decision without proper training.
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  #50  
Old 11-18-2012, 7:22 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
LOL, Not crazy about it? Mom up? What about the real facts here of being murdered without defense available because of YOUR concerns. Are you superior to her mentally? Physically to handle a hand gun?

A good shoot is a shoot that saved her life! Who cares what it costs! A good shoot does not nessesarily cost money. A DA will look at the evidence, make a determination about the event and decide from there.

What's important is that "Mom" is not a dead person.
Wow... too much coffee? First "my concerns" are simply put out there in the event the OP hadn't fully thought out the ramifications of doing something illegal (CCW) as I was indicating as a possibilty. Did the first part of my statement run right by you in a caffine mist?

Second, using a firearm effectively does not come naturally and in situation of high stress may not work could even be used against mom.

Third, If you don't know what the real consequence of your actions are (shooting a human) going to be, that individual is simply ignorant and possibly unaware of other less expensive (psych and monetarily) options such as hiring the appropriate security.

Fourth: I am the first to admit Mom could very well be my mental superior... mine was!
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  #51  
Old 11-18-2012, 7:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie50 View Post
Wow... too much coffee? First "my concerns" are simply put out there in the event the OP hadn't fully thought out the ramifications of doing something illegal (CCW) as I was indicating as a possibilty. Did the first part of my statement run right by you in a caffine mist?

Second, using a firearm effectively does not come naturally and in situation of high stress may not work could even be used against mom.

Third, If you don't know what the real consequence of your actions are (shooting a human) going to be, that individual is simply ignorant and possibly unaware of other less expensive (psych and monetarily) options such as hiring the appropriate security.

Fourth: I am the first to admit Mom could very well be my mental superior... mine was!
None of the above. However your opinion could only be derived from your personal experience between you and your mom.

Your basically saying a MOM in general cant handle a firearm for herself in a do or die situation without training. I just think your comments are a little condescending to Moms/females.
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  #52  
Old 11-18-2012, 9:38 AM
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IIRC a DV restraining order was an exception to the LTC rules.

Librarian?
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  #53  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:04 AM
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Not much of one; an affirmative defense.

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Quote:
26045. (a) Nothing in Section 25850 is intended to preclude the
carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that any
person or the property of any person is in immediate, grave danger
and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation
of that person or property.
(b) A violation of Section 25850 is justifiable when a person who
possesses a firearm reasonably believes that person is in grave
danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current
restraining order issued by a court against another person who has
been found to pose a threat to the life or safety of the person who
possesses the firearm. This subdivision may not apply when the
circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to
Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent
a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or
safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict,
or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority
to apply this or other justifications to a defendant charged with
violating Section 25400 or committing another similar offense. Upon
trial for violating Section 25850, the trier of fact shall determine
whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that the
defendant was in grave danger.
(c) As used in this section, "immediate" means the brief interval
before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably
possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of
its assistance.
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  #54  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:07 AM
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Post Leave the state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invisible_Dave View Post
All due respect but, I see this ending poorly...
Ditto.

Can anyone reading this thread imagine that the allegedly crazed cop in question is ever unarmed?

That his situational awareness is inferior to the woman's?

That his muscle memory is less well-engrained than hers?

That he would know how to use a smaller variety of weapons, including both contact weapons (knife, etc.) and distance weapons (handgun, shotgun, and rifle)?

I'm not suggesting that she should not prepare or fight back.

However, her best bet is to leave the state and move to one where he has no jurisdiction, no law enforcement buddies, and little or no means of influencing the law enforcement system to his advantage.

This might sound impractical.

But she would be better off using lethal force against him in another state than if she were to do it here--assuming she has all the things she'd need to win a fight with him (armed or unarmed).

Why do I advocate going to this length to ensure her safety?

Too many people in the system have too much willingness to give the alleged perpetrator the benefit of the doubt just because he is an LEO--despite reasons not to do so, which they conveniently ignore. Disagree with me about this?

The exception to this proves the rule.

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  #55  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Not much of one; an affirmative defense.

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Thanks for the info.
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  #56  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarn_Helm View Post
However, her best bet is to leave the state
^ This.

Sometimes you need to recognize when you're playing a bad hand, fold, and go on to the next one. It sucks, it feels like letting the bad guys win and goes against every instinct of my being, but the most important thing is your mom's safety. If the situation is as the OP says[1], the cards are too stacked against her. If she stays and chooses to carry a weapon, I see one of three things happening:

1) She doesn't need it. If she carries illegally, she runs the risk of legal penalties.

2) She needs it and attempts to use it in self defense, against someone who's stronger and better trained. Somewhere on page twelve the next day is a small article about a retired police officer having to shoot their ex in self-defense, possibly even with a quote about how this tragedy would never have happened without all these guns out there in our communities.

3) She needs it and uses it successfully in self-defense. Congratulations, she's now shot a retired police officer. She does have a documented history of reported threats and violated restraining orders, which is something. But pretty much everything else about the situation as the OP describes it is stacked against her. At best it's going to take a pile of money (which the OP says they don't have) to keep her from going to jail for a very, very long time.

Leave, and live to fight another day. (If she really does want to take up the fight, be a spokesperson for carry rights... or perhaps, as another poster said, a plaintiff.)

-g


[1] If there's one thing I've learned in my time on this planet, it's that there are two sides to every story. I hope you understand, OP, that I don't know you and I don't know the situation. So I'm giving you my 2c based on the presumption that everything you've said is true and there really isn't another side to it...
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  #57  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:18 PM
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OP - you should also keep in mind that "self-defense" is an affirmative defense to a charge of murder.

But suggestions to move far away are pretty good, too.
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  #58  
Old 11-18-2012, 1:17 PM
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With all due respect...

if moving away is already impractical...

how is planning a possible gunfight against a retired LEO (assuming he is complete inept and she is a skilled marksman) and then win against the following murder charges anymore practical?
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  #59  
Old 11-18-2012, 1:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
She tried. The dudes a retired LEO, so it's been a ***** just to get anyone to help us. This is the 3rd restraining order in 2 years. No matter how many times he violates them and no matter what threats he makes, most of the mentality we get is: come back when he tries to kill you. It's really getting annoying. I live in glendora, she was denied a CCW once already. I told her to try again but she is discouraged.

Now that he is escalating I just want my mom to have all the options available to her. I've trained her in krav maga, I've started training her in knife fighting and I've taught her how to shoot.
Contact a local television station and ask them to do a story on violence against women, including your mother's situation.

The more people that know about it may help her get something done.
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  #60  
Old 11-18-2012, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
I just think your comments are a little condescending to Moms/females.
People here regularly make the same statement about males. Some folks here seem to put an inordinate emphasis on ‘formal’ training. I think in some cases it is because no one ever taught them anything when they were growing up.

There is training and then there is training. I have been shooting handguns from the age of four. That was sixty years ago. Te best training I ever got was from my elders. But I have still learned a thing or three from formal training. On the other hand the last LTC mandatory refresher I took was a joke. You cannot line up 64 people at once on a firing line with one instructor and two assistants and get much training done. At best they can keep the few truly uninitiated from shooting someone. One ‘student’ had to be ejected for repeatedly covering others.

He is going to have to get some help with his safety habits and re-take the course. This was after four hours of instruction on safety rules.
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  #61  
Old 11-18-2012, 2:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarn_Helm View Post
Ditto.

Can anyone reading this thread imagine that the allegedly crazed cop in question is ever unarmed?

That his situational awareness is inferior to the woman's?

That his muscle memory is less well-engrained than hers?

That he would know how to use a smaller variety of weapons, including both contact weapons (knife, etc.) and distance weapons (handgun, shotgun, and rifle)?


The exception to this proves the rule.

Is this why most police seem to need to empty their gun to stop a threat and civilians dont?
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  #62  
Old 11-18-2012, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat1 View Post
People here regularly make the same statement about males. Some folks here seem to put an inordinate emphasis on ‘formal’ training. I think in some cases it is because no one ever taught them anything when they were growing up.

There is training and then there is training. I have been shooting handguns from the age of four. That was sixty years ago. Te best training I ever got was from my elders. But I have still learned a thing or three from formal training. On the other hand the last LTC mandatory refresher I took was a joke. You cannot line up 64 people at once on a firing line with one instructor and two assistants and get much training done. At best they can keep the few truly uninitiated from shooting someone. One ‘student’ had to be ejected for repeatedly covering others.

He is going to have to get some help with his safety habits and re-take the course. This was after four hours of instruction on safety rules.
And some people equate some magical unrealistic skill set to LEOs. It always amazes me.
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Old 11-18-2012, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by supersonic View Post
Sorry, but you are dead wrong (especially in that last statement). One simple solution: don't TELL anyone she is doing it. That's pretty much common sense in this case. Plus she can travel out of her jurisdiction (out of state would be optimal) to get the proper training to gain the necessary "skills" involved for the reflexes and speed she may need if it is ever called for. Then your so-called "goblins" won't be any the wiser. That's how my acquaintance did it and he/she has been carrying loaded concealed for several years now after it was obvious the local "cops" didn't "want" this person carrying for their own arbitrary reasons (this person even had LTC's already from other states when they applied, which was also conveniently "cast aside"), while they gave them out like candy to anyone else (some with rap sheets as long as your arm) who applied and/or appealed a denial.
Oh the irony!
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  #64  
Old 11-18-2012, 4:21 PM
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Default Spoken from a true "genius".....LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsandrockets View Post
Oh the irony!
Ever heard of a "need to know basis?" Some trusted ones need to know. Most others do not. Maybe "some" people have never been backed into a corner where you have nothing but the safest (and most practical) alternative available to them. But until you have been in that spot - and by your quote above:
Quote:
Oh the irony!
- you have no realization as to what it is like. And maybe shouldn't comment on things you have zero experience with.
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  #65  
Old 11-18-2012, 8:44 PM
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Her only realistic option is to move. Since he's an ex-LEO, he will be able to find out where she moves to as long as it's somewhere in the US, so she'll either have to move out of the country or to someplace in the US where it doesn't matter that he knows she's there -- a state with very strong self-protection laws and no real restrictions on carry.

Even after she moves, she'll need to buy a firearm and get very proficient in its use.


If she stays here, the outcome will be either that she winds up dead or she winds up being a convicted murderer. Because the guy's an ex-LEO, the chance of the mom winning the resulting criminal proceedings are likely to be very slim.

No, much better for her to get out now, while she still can. She'll otherwise likely either wind up dead or wind up in prison with a life sentence.
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  #66  
Old 11-19-2012, 4:40 PM
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Ok, so he was served today. He has 24 hours to turn in his guns. Unfortunately it seems the judge did require a proof of sale be filed with the court.

my mom is going to call Covina PD (his local PD) and ask if they have any proof he sold or turned in his guns.

My question: how the hell can we get proof he no longer has them now? Also I doubt his guns are on the roster, will he be able to get them back if he gives them to his dad out of state? He has to go through an FFL for and interstate transfer correct?
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  #67  
Old 11-19-2012, 5:14 PM
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Perhaps the order will be complied with, perhaps not. The problem with ROs is that they're only effective until they're not: their efficacy is sometimes proven less than desired in tragic ways.

Like the old street racing adage "there's no replacement for displacement", it's likewise generally true that "there's no replacement for physical separation."

-Brandon
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  #68  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:48 AM
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Sir Stunna Lot Sir Stunna Lot is offline
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So should she leave her firearm at home and be without it in a life threatening situation and die? I always wonder why people tend to post that leaving it at home is better until some undescribed level of training is reach.

What would be the appropriate level of training and who gets to determine that? You, me, Obama, or the Brady Campaign? How would we trust those that set the training requirements are free from ulterior motives?
Fair question, since i didnt specify what is considered proper training, let me elaborate:

1.) OP should show his mom how to load and unload the gun safely/correctly/appropriately, make sure she practice with live rounds and no rounds. give her a week and then ask her: "mom, are you 100% confident in your ability and are you scared at all of the gun?" If she answers incorrectly to either, give her some more time to practice and get more comfortable and ask her again untill she answers both correctly.
2.) Op should take his mom to the range and teach her to shoot the gun and hit a life size target, i would suggest at 7 yards. Assuming the OP knows how to shoot, he should be able to see when his mom is competent and comfortable enough on the trigger
3.) Op should explain the self defense law to his mom. Have her understand the "concept" of "only use the gun if you feel like your life is in immidiate danger". He needs to make sure that she understand the concept, when to properly use the gun and have her explain to him in her own word to make sure that she fully gasp the concept and isn not just repeating what was told to her. Also throw in the LUCC laws too.

Those are the 3 steps i have taken and used for people who want to learn about guns and self defense. I usually start with step 3 first, however, either orders will work perfectly fine.

You just have to use common sense sometime, no need to anyone else to make a checklist for you on this one. Chances are that if you feel that someone isnt ready, they probably arent. However, if you taught them well and you have confidence in them, they are probably ready.
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  #69  
Old 11-21-2012, 8:12 PM
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Update: kind of off topic but this is what we are dealing with and why I advocate for this so much.

So my mom got a new domestic violence restraining order out against my dad. He had 24 hours to turn in his guns or sell them to an FFL, this was 3 days ago. We went to glendora PD and told them west Covina PD won't help us at all. Glendora told us they need proof he was served in person before anything can be done.

We spent 2 hours tracking down a copy of the proof of service to show he was served in person, we ended up at the pamona court house by west Covina PD. Once we got that we went to WCPD and asked to see an officer, we waited for 4 hours. We told the officer what was going on, that he is in violation of the court order. He took down my dad's phone number and called him.

After about another 15 minutes of waiting he came back out and talked to us. He said my dad is coming down to turn in his guns and he is going to give us a report number. I told him we want my dad charged, this is now his 6th violation of a court order and nothing has yet to happen to him.

The officer told us they were not going to charge him because "a violation of a court order is nothing." however his next sentence he said we can have him arrested if he comes to our house. I showed him the part in the restraining order that says if violated its a 1k fine and/or one year in jail. The officer just shrugged.

He then tried to say our order isn't a domestic violence order, even though it says it at the top. He then said it's not an emergency protective order even though the judge issued it as an emergency because of threats towards my mom. He then tried to say it's because the misdemeanor wasn't committed in his presence even though my dad admitted to not turning them in. He also said he talked to his watch commander about what to do.

I told him my dad has threatened to kill my mom and has threatened to shoot me on multiple occasions. I said "what does he have to f*cking kill my mom and have me sue you before you'll do anything?" He was offended more by me saying f*ck over anything else. (I know I have no legal ground to sue them, they have no obligation to protect us. I just banked on the fact he didn't know that lol)

After twenty minutes of arguing with him I told him to just give me the police report and we'll leave, he then said there will not be a police report, it will just be considered a field interview.... I asked why he wasn't writing a report, he responded with "because the violation is nothing!" I then reminded him that this is what we were told the 5 other times. I said "had officers taken a report the five other times you could look at that and think to yourself hmmm maybe I should do something."

He didn't like that. Best part, that moron told my dad to come down, with his guns, and he walked up while we were trying to get him arrested.

West Covina PD is useless.
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  #70  
Old 11-21-2012, 8:40 PM
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How often in her life has law enforcement checked her purse.
She is responsible for her safety as are you if you are a devoted son.
She should carry discreetly and you should also when with her.
Especially if this guy is X LEO and has history of violence.
Train her with appropriate arm for her.
Why would anyone in their right mind suggest any different.
The LA Police and Sheriff are the people who shut down gun sales during the "Rodney King riots".
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  #71  
Old 11-21-2012, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelohamr View Post
Contact a local television station and ask them to do a story on violence against women, including your mother's situation.

The more people that know about it may help her get something done.
Ditto.

Two scenarios seem likely if she succeeds in enlisting the help of the media.

1) It will intimidate the former LEO and bring "off the record" pressure from his LEO peers, prompting him to back down.

2) It will enrage him, make him antagonize her more, and it may possibly make him snap and finish her off, with the perp throwing all caution to the wind, regardless of potential circumstances.

#2 seems a bit unlikely.

Before moving your mom out of the state, I myself would probably try to get the media involved.

Try KNBC. This station seems to be the most sympathetic to the kind of story you have to tell.

And remember, to them it is just a story.

So substantiate every claim the best you can with witnesses and evidence.

Good luck to OP and the alleged victim.

I don't envy your predicament.

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Last edited by Tarn_Helm; 11-21-2012 at 8:41 PM.. Reason: comment about #2
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  #72  
Old 11-22-2012, 7:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Update: kind of off topic but this is what we are dealing with and why I advocate for this so much.

So my mom got a new domestic violence restraining order...

He then tried to say our order isn't a domestic violence order, even though it says it at the top. He then said it's not an emergency protective order even though the judge issued it as an emergency because of threats towards my mom. He then tried to say it's because the misdemeanor wasn't committed in his presence even though my dad admitted to not turning them in. He also said he talked to his watch commander about what to do.

I told him my dad has threatened to kill my mom and has threatened to shoot me on multiple occasions. I said "what does he have to f*cking kill my mom and have me sue you before you'll do anything?" He was offended more by me saying f*ck over anything else. (I know I have no legal ground to sue them, they have no obligation to protect us. I just banked on the fact he didn't know that lol)

West Covina PD is useless.
Quote:
PC 836(c) (1) When a peace officer is responding to a call alleging a
violation of a domestic violence protective or restraining order
issued under Section 527.6 of the Code of Civil Procedure, the Family
Code, Section 136.2, 646.91, or paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of
Section 1203.097 of this code, Section 213.5 or 15657.03 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, or of a domestic violence protective
or restraining order issued by the court of another state, tribe, or
territory and the peace officer has probable cause to believe that
the person against whom the order is issued has notice of the order
and has committed an act in violation of the order, the officer
shall, consistent with subdivision (b) of Section 13701, make a
lawful arrest of the person without a warrant and take that person
into custody whether or not the violation occurred in the presence of
the arresting officer.
The officer shall, as soon as possible after
the arrest, confirm with the appropriate authorities or the Domestic
Violence Protection Order Registry maintained pursuant to Section
6380 of the Family Code that a true copy of the protective order has
been registered, unless the victim provides the officer with a copy
of the protective order.
Print out the above, go back and demand a crime report, pc 836/273.6 arrest authorization, and a warrant request from the watch commander. Absent satisfaction, demand two complaint forms. One for the previous officer and one for the watch commander. Tell them Ca. law and their dept policy require them to act. E-Mail the chief, city manager, city attorney, and council members if you still get no satisfaction.
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Last edited by Liberty1; 11-22-2012 at 8:04 AM..
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  #73  
Old 11-22-2012, 8:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty1 View Post
Print out the above, go back and demand a crime report, pc 836/273.6 arrest authorization, and a warrant request from the watch commander. Absent satisfaction, demand two complaint forms. One for the previous officer and one for the watch commander. Tell them Ca. law and their dept policy require them to act. E-Mail the chief, city manager, city attorney, and council members if you still get no satisfaction.
Interesting, thanks for the info. I knew he was full of sh*t I just was talking in circles with him so I gave up. He had no intention of doing anything and I had no way to force him to. I'll give this a try and see where it gets us.
Thanks again.
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  #74  
Old 11-22-2012, 8:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Interesting, thanks for the info. I knew he was full of sh*t I just was talking in circles with him so I gave up. He had no intention of doing anything and I had no way to force him to. I'll give this a try and see where it gets us.
Thanks again.
Are you a protected person listed on the RO? If not have the "victim" make the report. The previous officer's actions of calling the suspect and the guns then being turned in late completes the elements of the crime of possession in violation of the order. The DA may not file the case but the police do not have the option of not making and or seeking an arrest if probable cause exists.
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/
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  #75  
Old 11-22-2012, 8:27 AM
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And RO's are not worth the paper they are printed on. And the suspect will not do time if convicted. So really you and your mother should be focusing on real world solutions like being where he cannot locate her or her place of work in addition to real self defense training and options.
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/
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  #76  
Old 11-22-2012, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Update: kind of off topic but this is what we are dealing with and why I advocate for this so much.

So my mom got a new domestic violence restraining order out against my dad. He had 24 hours to turn in his guns or sell them to an FFL, this was 3 days ago. We went to glendora PD and told them west Covina PD won't help us at all. Glendora told us they need proof he was served in person before anything can be done.

We spent 2 hours tracking down a copy of the proof of service to show he was served in person, we ended up at the pamona court house by west Covina PD. Once we got that we went to WCPD and asked to see an officer, we waited for 4 hours. We told the officer what was going on, that he is in violation of the court order. He took down my dad's phone number and called him.

After about another 15 minutes of waiting he came back out and talked to us. He said my dad is coming down to turn in his guns and he is going to give us a report number. I told him we want my dad charged, this is now his 6th violation of a court order and nothing has yet to happen to him.

The officer told us they were not going to charge him because "a violation of a court order is nothing." however his next sentence he said we can have him arrested if he comes to our house. I showed him the part in the restraining order that says if violated its a 1k fine and/or one year in jail. The officer just shrugged.

He then tried to say our order isn't a domestic violence order, even though it says it at the top. He then said it's not an emergency protective order even though the judge issued it as an emergency because of threats towards my mom. He then tried to say it's because the misdemeanor wasn't committed in his presence even though my dad admitted to not turning them in. He also said he talked to his watch commander about what to do.

I told him my dad has threatened to kill my mom and has threatened to shoot me on multiple occasions. I said "what does he have to f*cking kill my mom and have me sue you before you'll do anything?" He was offended more by me saying f*ck over anything else. (I know I have no legal ground to sue them, they have no obligation to protect us. I just banked on the fact he didn't know that lol)

After twenty minutes of arguing with him I told him to just give me the police report and we'll leave, he then said there will not be a police report, it will just be considered a field interview.... I asked why he wasn't writing a report, he responded with "because the violation is nothing!" I then reminded him that this is what we were told the 5 other times. I said "had officers taken a report the five other times you could look at that and think to yourself hmmm maybe I should do something."

He didn't like that. Best part, that moron told my dad to come down, with his guns, and he walked up while we were trying to get him arrested.

West Covina PD is useless.
talk about a lawsuit and criminal investigation of that department...you need to contact the media ASAP..post it on facebook, twitter...call every news outlet you can.

If this is true, many officers need to be fired.
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  #77  
Old 11-22-2012, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
talk about a lawsuit and criminal investigation of that department...you need to contact the media ASAP..post it on facebook, twitter...call every news outlet you can.

If this is true, many officers need to be fired.
Nothing but retraining and a letter in a file will happen.
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/
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  #78  
Old 11-22-2012, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Not much of one; an affirmative defense.

-Brandon
And the other side of that coin;

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=25600-25655

Quote:
25600. (a) A violation of Section 25400 (concealed pistol) is justifiable when...
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/
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  #79  
Old 11-22-2012, 9:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
talk about a lawsuit and criminal investigation of that department...you need to contact the media ASAP..post it on facebook, twitter...call every news outlet you can.

If this is true, many officers need to be fired.
This is just one of many stories like this. Like I said, this is his 6th violation.
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  #80  
Old 11-22-2012, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Liberty1 View Post
And RO's are not worth the paper they are printed on. And the suspect will not do time if convicted. So really you and your mother should be focusing on real world solutions like being where he cannot locate her or her place of work in addition to real self defense training and options.
Yup, we have and are. A DV conviction will at the very least make him a prohibited person in California and remove his CCW.
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