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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-20-2012, 9:50 PM
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Default Noob here! Interested in an AR

*edit*

My buddy showed me this..

http://www.hk22rimfire.com/index.php?page=mp5-sd

What do you think?

It is legal, right?

My friend has an AR-15 .223 that he put together for around $700; he said it would have cost him $1200 if he bought it separate. My question is, what are the legal limitations in California as far as caliber and other tricky laws we have?

What would you recommend if it's something I'd like to take to the range. Where would I even start?

Last edited by TheCorporation; 12-06-2012 at 6:34 AM..
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2012, 9:56 PM
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If you're a noob I wouldn't suggest trying to build one. Like custom crafted cars, they can be cantankerous and need a lot of tuning, fiddling until they're where you want it to be. I'd start out with the S&W M&P 15 Sport just to get familiar with the AR platform; the sweet part about that gun is that it's about $700, more or less. I'm pretty sure it's chambered for 5.56 so you can also use 2.23 if you like. The bullet button is already installed, you get a CA-capacity 'mag, so legality wise you're good to go. Now if you believe in buying the best that you can for the little money you've got I recommend going with the Colt 6920. It's about $1200 but you're getting Colt performance and reliability for a little over a grand. If you decide you want a fancier 'AR or a gas piston one in the future you can always sell your Colt for almost what you paid for it. Buy once, cry once, as some here would say, and either of those guns will serve you well. Look around the intrawebz for reviews/opinions about either gun and you'd be hard pressed to find anything negative about them...
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:01 PM
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You can get a stripped lower from the LGS, and either get a rifle kit, or search for the best deals to piece your rifle together. You can spend $600 or easily go over $1000 depending on what you want
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
If you're a noob I wouldn't suggest trying to build one. Like custom crafted cars, they can be cantankerous and need a lot of tuning, fiddling until they're where you want it to be. I'd start out with the S&W M&P 15 Sport just to get familiar with the AR platform; the sweet part about that gun is that it's about $700, more or less. I'm pretty sure it's chambered for 5.56 so you can also use 2.23 if you like. The bullet button is already installed, you get a CA-capacity 'mag, so legality wise you're good to go. Now if you believe in buying the best that you can for the little money you've got I recommend going with the Colt 6920. It's about $1200 but you're getting Colt performance and reliability for a little over a grand. If you decide you want a fancier 'AR or a gas piston one in the future you can always sell your Colt for almost what you paid for it. Buy once, cry once, as some here would say, and either of those guns will serve you well. Look around the intrawebz for reviews/opinions about either gun and you'd be hard pressed to find anything negative about them...
I considered the S&W M&P 15 Sport for my first AR but it just didn't smell right to me. At the end of the day I decided to go with a Colt LE6920. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I didn't shop around enough and it took too long for my LGS to find a LE6920 so I picked up a CR6720 they had on the shelf. Super impressed with it but it's more of a DMR than a CQB so lo and behold I just put a LE6920 in jail today. From what I've seen with my CR6720 it will be worth every penny
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Roland Deschain View Post
I considered the S&W M&P 15 Sport for my first AR but it just didn't smell right to me. At the end of the day I decided to go with a Colt LE6920. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I didn't shop around enough and it took too long for my LGS to find a LE6920 so I picked up a CR6720 they had on the shelf. Super impressed with it but it's more of a DMR than a CQB so lo and behold I just put a LE6920 in jail today. From what I've seen with my CR6720 it will be worth every penny
Looks like we traveled the same path, pretty much. I passed on the S&W not because I didn't think it was good enough but I just wanted more for the money. I remember your thread on the 6720-how's that going for you? I also searched high and low and long but I got lucky on my 6920-a guy had jailed it, didn't pass the DROS and they literally pushed it over the counter to me, lol. I think everyone must've restocked though, 'cause they seem to be everywhere, now...
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:03 PM
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There's nothing wrong with assembling your own gun as a first timer if you're somewhat mechanically inclined and don't mind fiddling a little. There's no better way to learn the weapon and gain a good understanding of just what the heck is going on in there when you pull the trigger.

I would, however stick to assembling the lower only as there are no special tools(depending on the type of stock you use) to do it. Once you get into assembling an upper, you might find that you do need a barrel wrench, a vise, and a receiver block at the very least if you're starting with a completed barrel assembly.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:09 PM
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With Youtube and the Brownell's building guides it's pretty simply to assemble an AR. Especially if you buy a complete upper and are only putting together the lower. Here are some links to help you get started:

Uppers:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...te-uppers.html

Lower build kit's:
(great deals since it includes almost everything you need to complete your stripped lower... you still need a bullet button)

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...uild-kits.html

Brownells assembly videos:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1.../#.UKyMG4Yrffc

Your local gun store should carry stripped lowers.... just pick the rollmark you like.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2012, 7:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TheCorporation View Post
My friend has an AR-15 .223 that he put together for around $700; he said it would have cost him $1200 if he bought it separate. My question is, what are the legal limitations in California as far as caliber and other tricky laws we have?

What would you recommend if it's something I'd like to take to the range. Where would I even start?
Generally speaking, I don't think your friend built the same quality AR15 for $700 that he would have with $1200. There isn't that much mark up in parts nor complete rifles for that much savings. If he did, he just found awesome deals and that is going to be rare.

In the AR15 world you get what you pay for. Buying substandard guns like the M&P15 Sport vs even a regular M&P15 might matter later when parts start giving out. Buying a Stag, RRA, LMT, or Colt is always a better idea than going bottom feeder.

I would go to a quality AR15 shop and see what they show you. I have many complete rifles and parts for sale so if you came into my shop, I would go over all of your options with you. We could get you out the door for less than $805 for some junk like a DPMS Oracle, we could build you about a $1025 quality rifle with a Stag 2H upper, or we could sell you an LMT CQB for $1800.

I would just urge you to be cautious about buying cheap. You get what you pay for in the AR15 world.

If you are no where near the Bakersfield area, there are good gun shops all over this state that can help you. Here is my FAQ page to help you with the legalities.

https://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/i...main_page=ar15
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2012, 7:17 AM
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Don't get the one thats for .223, get the one thats for 5.56. When you get the one for 5.56, you can shoot .223. You can shoot 5.56 through the .223, but its not really recommended.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2012, 8:11 AM
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Myk's first post is spot on, s&w mp15, it has no dust cover and no forward assist. I have never used my forward assist on any rifle, anyone who is trained in high speed. High pressure situations will not press a forward assist, worthless in real world. The dust cover isn't needed either unless you plan on going somewhere that has sandstorms. Get some rounds thru the barrel and use frog lube. It will keep your bolt carrier group nice and juicy and repel dirt, debris and carbon. Good luck
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  #11  
Old 11-21-2012, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorporation View Post
What would you recommend if it's something I'd like to take to the range. Where would I even start?
Start with buying a stripped lower and then everything else you need to know is right here...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+build+an+ar-15
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2012, 9:59 AM
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If you're wondering why some people are responding the way they are... it's probably because you used the childish term "noob". When we see or hear "noob", we automatically think, "child that needs to be supervised".

Well that's certainly how I see it anyhow.

Just go buy a fully built one and PLEASE follow the FLOWCHART and the law so you don't mess it up for the rest of us, you noob.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by myk View Post
If you're a noob I wouldn't suggest trying to build one. Like custom crafted cars, they can be cantankerous and need a lot of tuning, fiddling until they're where you want it to be. I'd start out with the S&W M&P 15 Sport just to get familiar with the AR platform; the sweet part about that gun is that it's about $700, more or less. I'm pretty sure it's chambered for 5.56 so you can also use 2.23 if you like. The bullet button is already installed, you get a CA-capacity 'mag, so legality wise you're good to go. Now if you believe in buying the best that you can for the little money you've got I recommend going with the Colt 6920. It's about $1200 but you're getting Colt performance and reliability for a little over a grand. If you decide you want a fancier 'AR or a gas piston one in the future you can always sell your Colt for almost what you paid for it. Buy once, cry once, as some here would say, and either of those guns will serve you well. Look around the intrawebz for reviews/opinions about either gun and you'd be hard pressed to find anything negative about them...
I think if you buy a complete upper, that should cover any newbiness. That's what I did. Bought a lower, bought a parts kit and stock. Watched youtube to put it all together and now I have a completed lower, which does NOT require much skill. Then I bought a complete upper from Midway, which attached with the two take-down pins and it's all together.
About $700-$800-ish, depending on the upper you pick
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:15 AM
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Shoot, I might have to try doing that one of these days. I guess it's just preference though; I liked the idea of pulling a rifle off of the rack and making it mine...
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorporation View Post
My friend has an AR-15 .223 that he put together for around $700; he said it would have cost him $1200 if he bought it separate. My question is, what are the legal limitations in California as far as caliber and other tricky laws we have?

What would you recommend if it's something I'd like to take to the range. Where would I even start?
Most folks here know more than I do, but...

Recommendation: get a stripped lower now, before you have to register it after the end of December.

Now... that being said, I was where you are now. A buddy send me a free lower parts kit (a $50 value, I think). I built my lower myself with the aid of a friend, but I think everything I needed to know could have come from youtube. The major problem is that front takedown pin (specifically the detent and spring).

You won't save any by building the upper. I went and priced everything out as well as I could for a long time. I don't really think it's worth it. I'd find a decent, complete upper. They're rare at the moment, so maybe find a good, reputable brand and order ahead of time. Some of these places are two months or more behind. I was lucky to find the one I did.

Then buy a stock.

Once you've got the basic build done, you'll want to upgrade it here and there... better trigger, optics, etc. etc.
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Old 11-21-2012, 1:50 PM
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If you buy a good complete upper (from PSA, Aim Surplus, Spikes, BCM, etc) and dont skimp on the lower parts kit and buffer tube kit, you should have a high quality reliable rifle. Everything else like optics, buttstock, and pistol grip all come second.
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Old 11-21-2012, 2:37 PM
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Build? Hell no.

Buy a complete California compliant Colt 6920 for $1149.

The resale value will be better should you ever choose to sell; it has proved itself in theatre, versus some kit or hobby gun with no real QC procedures other than you trying to duplicate what's on YouTube. Trust me.
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Old 11-21-2012, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
If you're wondering why some people are responding the way they are... it's probably because you used the childish term "noob". When we see or hear "noob", we automatically think, "child that needs to be supervised".

Well that's certainly how I see it anyhow.

Just go buy a fully built one and PLEASE follow the FLOWCHART and the law so you don't mess it up for the rest of us, you noob.
I'm glad you speak for everyone when you say "we." I actually didn't feel like anyone was 'responding the way they are," either. (Whatever that means) But to everyone else, thanks for the replies, I have a lot more reading to do.
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Old 11-21-2012, 2:59 PM
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Sure thing noob.
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Old 11-21-2012, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Generally speaking, I don't think your friend built the same quality AR15 for $700 that he would have with $1200. There isn't that much mark up in parts nor complete rifles for that much savings. If he did, he just found awesome deals and that is going to be rare.

In the AR15 world you get what you pay for. Buying substandard guns like the M&P15 Sport vs even a regular M&P15 might matter later when parts start giving out. Buying a Stag, RRA, LMT, or Colt is always a better idea than going bottom feeder.

I would go to a quality AR15 shop and see what they show you. I have many complete rifles and parts for sale so if you came into my shop, I would go over all of your options with you. We could get you out the door for less than $805 for some junk like a DPMS Oracle, we could build you about a $1025 quality rifle with a Stag 2H upper, or we could sell you an LMT CQB for $1800.

I would just urge you to be cautious about buying cheap. You get what you pay for in the AR15 world.

If you are no where near the Bakersfield area, there are good gun shops all over this state that can help you. Here is my FAQ page to help you with the legalities.

https://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/i...main_page=ar15
Wasn't aware S&W were bottom feeders.

This guy is dead on.vvv
If you buy a good complete upper (from PSA, Aim Surplus, Spikes, BCM, etc) and dont skimp on the lower parts kit and buffer tube kit, you should have a high quality reliable rifle. Everything else like optics, buttstock, and pistol grip all come second.

And the best advice I can give is not take the colt talk too serious. It's just a rifle and not the best one out .
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I would wipe it off for the simple fact of not wanting to get sprayed in the face with it during the first few rounds.
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It does not matter.An AR is the very best and safest weapon to use for home defence.

Last edited by SocomM4; 11-21-2012 at 3:07 PM..
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  #21  
Old 11-21-2012, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SocomM4 View Post
Wasn't aware S&W were bottom feeders.

This guy is dead on.vvv
If you buy a good complete upper (from PSA, Aim Surplus, Spikes, BCM, etc) and dont skimp on the lower parts kit and buffer tube kit, you should have a high quality reliable rifle. Everything else like optics, buttstock, and pistol grip all come second.

And the best advice I can give is not take the colt talk too serious. It's just a rifle and not the best one out .
What he said.

There's nothing wrong with S&W.

If you can find a fully built Daniel Defense, LMT, Spikes for the same price though, go for one of those.

I know lots of folks talk about how great Colt is... but in all honesty, any of the names i listed above can go head to head with Colt.....

NOOB... sorry couldn't resist.
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Old 11-21-2012, 4:22 PM
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I definitely recommend the colt 6920...
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Old 11-21-2012, 4:25 PM
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@HK Dave, Weren't you the one calling me childish, yet have said 'noob' as a negative term 3 times already in this very thread? Clearly, you are the childish one. Don't you have to be 21 to purchase a hand gun anyway?

@Everyone else, I'm thinking that S&W might be the way to go...
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Old 11-21-2012, 5:40 PM
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Ah, you're getting it now... that the term noob is childish and best left to kids?

I was making a point when i called you "noob" 3 times.

Don't take it too seriously brother, this is an internet forum. You're the new gu.... err NOOB so just a little friendly hazing.

And anyhow I honestly tried to help. You're welcome to pm me if you want specifics on anything.

You NOOB.
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Last edited by HK Dave; 11-21-2012 at 5:43 PM..
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Old 11-21-2012, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by myk View Post
Looks like we traveled the same path, pretty much. I passed on the S&W not because I didn't think it was good enough but I just wanted more for the money. I remember your thread on the 6720-how's that going for you? I also searched high and low and long but I got lucky on my 6920-a guy had jailed it, didn't pass the DROS and they literally pushed it over the counter to me, lol. I think everyone must've restocked though, 'cause they seem to be everywhere, now...
The CR6720 has been working out great. My only complaint has been how heavy it is compared to the LE6920 (or any other 16" collapsible) but that's to be expected with the 20" heavy stainless barrel. It's extremely accurate (when someone other than me is behind the trigger ) and I still need to get a proper scope for it and better sling (the red dot and MS3 were meant for my 6920).
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:07 PM
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Just keep in mind that the Colt CR6720 CA lower is not mil-spec in that Colt uses a integral web of aluminum as a sear block, rather than the old pinned sear block. This means that some aftermarket modular triggers will not fit the lower, such as the AR-Gold Trigger by American Trigger Corp. The JP Enterprises EZ trigger will fit however. I don't plan on removing the web as some yahoo may see that as an attempt to convert it for the auto sear down the road, a complexity I don't need.


Last edited by Wrangler John; 11-21-2012 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 11-22-2012, 8:10 AM
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Registration doesn't start until 2014.

$650 S&W MP15 Sports are bottom feeders. $1100 MP15s are not bottom feeders. Know there is a difference before buying one of the cheaper ones and thinking you got a great deal when you bought a whole different level firearm.
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2012, 9:26 PM
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I know you guys are going to hate me for this, but I shot the Mossberg AR-15 .22 Tactical and it wasn't bad at all. In fact, I actually liked it. It's only $250 or so, too, so that's appealing.

Has anyone had any experiences with these?
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Old 12-03-2012, 6:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddicken1953 View Post
Myk's first post is spot on, s&w mp15, it has no dust cover and no forward assist. I have never used my forward assist on any rifle, anyone who is trained in high speed. High pressure situations will not press a forward assist, worthless in real world. The dust cover isn't needed either unless you plan on going somewhere that has sandstorms. Get some rounds thru the barrel and use frog lube. It will keep your bolt carrier group nice and juicy and repel dirt, debris and carbon. Good luck
The forward assist and dust cover are there for a reason. We used both in the USMC. They are good to have if needed. The Sports don't have them because they are cheaper to manufactuer and an entry level AR.
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Old 12-03-2012, 6:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TheCorporation View Post
My friend has an AR-15 .223 that he put together for around $700; he said it would have cost him $1200 if he bought it separate. My question is, what are the legal limitations in California as far as caliber and other tricky laws we have?

What would you recommend if it's something I'd like to take to the range. Where would I even start?
First of all the $700. gun is not a $1200.00 gun. Here is a post that lists what is needed for a top of the line AR. the S@W is not a top of the line gun due to the quality of its parts . there are AR15s built with bolt action steel and AR15s built with machine gun steel.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...8&postcount=79
Also this is a nice info link on the basics of care and feeding the AR. There is some opinion but it is still good info .
http://www.frfrogspad.com/ar.htm
Only you can chose what level or AR quality you want to buy. So far S@W has a good customer service warranty reputation,I have used it 2 years ago. Not on an AR though.
Daniel Defense and Bravo Company are the best rifles on the market for the best price. Machine gun steel at a bolt action steel price!! Has a ring to it eh!!!

Last edited by Sunday; 12-03-2012 at 7:12 AM..
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Old 12-03-2012, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by myk View Post
If you're a noob I wouldn't suggest trying to build one. Like custom crafted cars, they can be cantankerous and need a lot of tuning, fiddling until they're where you want it to be. I'd start out with the S&W M&P 15 Sport just to get familiar with the AR platform; the sweet part about that gun is that it's about $700, more or less. I'm pretty sure it's chambered for 5.56 so you can also use 2.23 if you like. The bullet button is already installed, you get a CA-capacity 'mag, so legality wise you're good to go. Now if you believe in buying the best that you can for the little money you've got I recommend going with the Colt 6920. It's about $1200 but you're getting Colt performance and reliability for a little over a grand. If you decide you want a fancier 'AR or a gas piston one in the future you can always sell your Colt for almost what you paid for it. Buy once, cry once, as some here would say, and either of those guns will serve you well. Look around the intrawebz for reviews/opinions about either gun and you'd be hard pressed to find anything negative about them...
This^^ go with quality OP, it will last you much longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddicken1953 View Post
Myk's first post is spot on, s&w mp15, it has no dust cover and no forward assist. I have never used my forward assist on any rifle, anyone who is trained in high speed. High pressure situations will not press a forward assist, worthless in real world. The dust cover isn't needed either unless you plan on going somewhere that has sandstorms. Get some rounds thru the barrel and use frog lube. It will keep your bolt carrier group nice and juicy and repel dirt, debris and carbon. Good luck
Sorry but no. There are plenty of situations where a dust cover and forward assist come in handy, that's why they were designed to be there in the first place. Everyone know that if your AR isn't kept clean, it won't function properly. Look at what happen in Vietnam before the troops were issued cleaning kits. A dust cover is essential in my opinion because it keeps crap like sand, dust, dirt, and grit out of you breech and off your bolt. AR-15's were not designed to be pretty little bench rest rifles, but rather down and dirty tools of war, and anyone who seriously trains with their weapon will get it dusty and covered in grime. Hell, if you just want to go shoot out in the desert you're gunna get it covered in dust. I say you go with something better than an M&P 15 sport. It's a cheap for a reason
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Old 12-03-2012, 2:11 PM
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A review on the M&P Sport:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...on-mp15-sport/
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Old 12-03-2012, 2:47 PM
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Merry Xmas!

Wrote this just for you!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=555451

let me know what you think.
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Old 12-03-2012, 2:53 PM
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Just make sure

1)the barrel is at least 16" overall length
2)there is a magazine lock on it.
3)you use only 10 round magazines

you can explore making your rifle featureless later. Enjoi.
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Old 12-05-2012, 8:07 PM
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My buddy showed me this..

http://www.hk22rimfire.com/index.php?page=mp5-sd

What do you think?

It is legal, right?
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Old 12-05-2012, 8:25 PM
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Don't buy a colt
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Old 12-06-2012, 6:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpbprox View Post
Don't buy a colt
Why is that? I always here good things about Colt and their assault riffles. And, what about the link I posted above? I'm interested in getting something like that.
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Old 12-06-2012, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorporation View Post
Why is that? I always here good things about Colt and their assault riffles. And, what about the link I posted above? I'm interested in getting something like that.
Great rifle but why buy that when you can get a reputable AR for less. Spikes is a great brand.
Save your money and buy ammo. That's what I would do if I was you or reach out to someone on here and have them help you build your own AR.
Where are you located?
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Old 12-06-2012, 7:06 AM
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Fresno County
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Old 12-06-2012, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddicken1953 View Post
Myk's first post is spot on, s&w mp15, it has no dust cover and no forward assist. I have never used my forward assist on any rifle, anyone who is trained in high speed. High pressure situations will not press a forward assist, worthless in real world. The dust cover isn't needed either unless you plan on going somewhere that has sandstorms. Get some rounds thru the barrel and use frog lube. It will keep your bolt carrier group nice and juicy and repel dirt, debris and carbon. Good luck
Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHP1127 View Post
The forward assist and dust cover are there for a reason. We used both in the USMC. They are good to have if needed. The Sports don't have them because they are cheaper to manufactuer and an entry level AR.
Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfred1222 View Post
Sorry but no. There are plenty of situations where a dust cover and forward assist come in handy, that's why they were designed to be there in the first place. Everyone know that if your AR isn't kept clean, it won't function properly. Look at what happen in Vietnam before the troops were issued cleaning kits. A dust cover is essential in my opinion because it keeps crap like sand, dust, dirt, and grit out of you breech and off your bolt. AR-15's were not designed to be pretty little bench rest rifles, but rather down and dirty tools of war, and anyone who seriously trains with their weapon will get it dusty and covered in grime. Hell, if you just want to go shoot out in the desert you're gunna get it covered in dust.
Also Correct

I was trained in the Corps to keep the dust cover closed and to use the forward assist if needed in certain situations. I only had to use the FA once.

Somolia Africa.

Personally, I won't buy an AR15 without a FA and a Dust Cover.
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