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View Poll Results: Would you prefer the KTo frames in steel, aluminum, or either one
Steel 85 45.95%
Aluminum 59 31.89%
Either one is fine 41 22.16%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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  #201  
Old 07-23-2012, 4:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trident View Post
I'm in, but will there be any instructions if I'm unable to attend a build party? The jig is a definite necessity as are the slide rails cutting bits, what else would be needed, a mill? Or can this be done with a drill press??
For the slide rail I definitely would not go at it with a drill press but for all the other holes a drill press would be a viable option.
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  #202  
Old 07-30-2012, 12:43 PM
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I just heard back from KTO; he is ready to for the order, so this GB can get started by whoever is going to run it. Pictures will soon be available.

Price is $250 each with a minimum of 100 frames.

I said I was out, but i'm really tempted to get back in lol.
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  #203  
Old 07-30-2012, 3:18 PM
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Is that the price for the aluminum or the steel frame?
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  #204  
Old 07-30-2012, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot_man View Post
Is that the price for the aluminum or the steel frame?
I believe it was decided that it would be a 2 piece, welded aluminum design.

I could be wrong. but definitely in!
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  #205  
Old 07-30-2012, 4:10 PM
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I didn't think to ask about material, but at $250 I'm willing bet it's steel.
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  #206  
Old 07-30-2012, 4:35 PM
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Hopefully we can get some aluminum frames in the group buy. That's what I'm interested in.
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  #207  
Old 07-30-2012, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 762shooter View Post
I didn't think to ask about material, but at $250 I'm willing bet it's steel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot_man View Post
Hopefully we can get some aluminum frames in the group buy. That's what I'm interested in.
well we are only going to get one so...... unless we can meet qty 100 for each material. I'm ok with either or.
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  #208  
Old 08-05-2012, 6:11 AM
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id be interested in either or. but id more prefer the aluminum.
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  #209  
Old 08-05-2012, 7:37 AM
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Post #1 indicates $250 was the aluminum frame price.
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  #210  
Old 08-05-2012, 3:03 PM
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Any idea if there will be a Jig available for this. Also, what are you guys doing for the rest of the parts (Slide, parts kit)?

I just got done building my first AR15 lower on a HF Mini Mill with a Tactical Machining jig. I could do it now without the Jig, but I definately wouldn't want to destroy a $250 pistol lower since they probably have to be in way better spec than an AR lower.
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  #211  
Old 08-05-2012, 11:07 PM
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I might be in for one also
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  #212  
Old 08-08-2012, 2:32 PM
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so what's the word on these? final price yet?
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  #213  
Old 08-08-2012, 4:05 PM
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was just going to update this today, you beat me to it.

final price is $250 if we can come up with an order for 100.
frames will be 6061 Aluminum. No option for 7075 or steel.
an accessory rail will be included.

In the next several days, I will try to go through this thread and make a list of folks that said they were interested, and post it. Not sure how soon I will get that done, if anyone else is fired up then feel free to do so and PM me the list.
Once we get a confirmed count of folks interested so far, we can see how many more we need to drum up in order to make this happen.
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  #214  
Old 08-08-2012, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
was just going to update this today, you beat me to it.

final price is $250 if we can come up with an order for 100.
frames will be 6061 Aluminum. No option for 7075 or steel.
an accessory rail will be included.

In the next several days, I will try to go through this thread and make a list of folks that said they were interested, and post it. Not sure how soon I will get that done, if anyone else is fired up then feel free to do so and PM me the list.
Once we get a confirmed count of folks interested so far, we can see how many more we need to drum up in order to make this happen.
perhaps we can start a new thread to keep things clean. And do one of those "quote, then edit in your name" type of head count.
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  #215  
Old 08-08-2012, 4:37 PM
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Does accessory rail included mean that the rails will be machined into the slide or a separate part like the Dawson precision 1911 rails that need to be installed onto the dust cover.
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  #216  
Old 08-08-2012, 7:03 PM
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Put me down for one, will make payment by whatever you decide is close date for the group buy.
Funds permitting by close date, I may up the order to two paperweights.

Any word on the combo 1911/Sig. jig? I am still wanting a couple of the KTO 1911s eventually, just no way to get it all with money tight ATM.

Thanks
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  #217  
Old 08-11-2012, 4:47 AM
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I'm still in for 2(maybe more if needed) and a Jig if we can get them.
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  #218  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:17 PM
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If there is a new thread for this gb please post


Doc
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  #219  
Old 08-15-2012, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCrazyJ View Post
If there is a new thread for this gb please post


Doc
I've been wondering the same thing. Please update.
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  #220  
Old 08-15-2012, 10:39 PM
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will update soon. have been busy with SB249 stuff. sorry for delay.
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  #221  
Old 08-21-2012, 9:41 AM
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let's keep this one on the first page. up you go.
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  #222  
Old 08-21-2012, 8:46 PM
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thanks, and sorry again for the delay. will get a count ASAP. the invitation is still open to anyone that wishes to wade thru this thread and PM me their results.
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  #223  
Old 08-22-2012, 2:37 AM
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A couple suggestions:
1. Maybe start a new "the group buy is a go" thread with the final details in the op so the buy thread is cluttered.
2. Is there some info or detail somewhere on what is needed to complete these?
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  #224  
Old 08-22-2012, 8:33 PM
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Count me in for 1 please :-)
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  #225  
Old 08-23-2012, 3:19 PM
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Exclamation POLL CLOSED, See NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD FOR GROUP BUY IS HERE
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  #226  
Old 08-23-2012, 9:49 PM
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Default Caution is in order here.

Hiya! I won't comment on the relative cost-effectiveness of such a project, but I'd caution your members regarding the feasibility of finishing one of these aluminum "80%" frame into a properly-made, durable pistol. The original P228 and all other alloy P-series pistol frames are very dependent upon alloy grade for structural integrity, and Type III anodizing for their surface hardness and wear resistance. They were literally designed around these considerations. Assuming these frames will be machined from correct material, a home builder still needs to contend with anodizing, without benefit of knowing precisely how to size the various bores and fitted surfaces to account for the dimensional effect of that process.

Steel would make a bit more sense therefore, if a truly durable and correctly-dimensioned final product is important.

The P228 frame family, which includes the P229, is not directly compatible with the P226.

I hope this input is helpful.

-Bruce

Grayguns Inc.
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  #227  
Old 08-24-2012, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for chiming in, Bruce!
Your input is welcome and concerns are valid, and your expertise is certainly respected and appreciated.
Steel would definitely be of less concern regarding strength and durability (but heavy!). The original KTO Sig 228 80% frames were steel. However, KTO subsequently produced the same product in aluminum for several years, and many successful builds were done using the aluminum version.
I will pass your comments along to Richard at KTO as well as some of the other folks that have built working pistols from this product. Safety is always of the utmost importance and words of caution coming from someone with your level of experience should always be heeded.
In any event I agree, anodizing is certainly recommended.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayguns View Post
Hiya! I won't comment on the relative cost-effectiveness of such a project, but I'd caution your members regarding the feasibility of finishing one of these aluminum "80%" frame into a properly-made, durable pistol. The original P228 and all other alloy P-series pistol frames are very dependent upon alloy grade for structural integrity, and Type III anodizing for their surface hardness and wear resistance. They were literally designed around these considerations. Assuming these frames will be machined from correct material, a home builder still needs to contend with anodizing, without benefit of knowing precisely how to size the various bores and fitted surfaces to account for the dimensional effect of that process.

Steel would make a bit more sense therefore, if a truly durable and correctly-dimensioned final product is important.

The P228 frame family, which includes the P229, is not directly compatible with the P226.

I hope this input is helpful.

-Bruce

Grayguns Inc.
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  #228  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:37 AM
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OK, with my limited understanding i'm going to throw this out....

I believe it is not too complicated for the garage machinist to do a type II anodize(seen it done on the interwebz), but a type III anodize needs to be done professionally as it's a more industrialized process.

I've read up a little about the ins and outs/details of the type III process, could anybody with the knowledge, here, point those of use wanting to have this done to a database/site etc.?
Something that would tell me the extra thickness that would occur from a type III anodize so I could account for that after machining and fitting slide, just as a example of one question that pops into my mind. Not even knowing there are many other questions I don't even know to ask about yet.

Hope this question makes sense, and I'm not asking for a hand holding, just if peoples have handy references and info that they could disseminate to the rest of those/us to help us handle it on our own....to a point.

Thanks.
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  #229  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon-Arms View Post
OK, with my limited understanding i'm going to throw this out....

I believe it is not too complicated for the garage machinist to do a type II anodize(seen it done on the interwebz), but a type III anodize needs to be done professionally as it's a more industrialized process.

I've read up a little about the ins and outs/details of the type III process, could anybody with the knowledge, here, point those of use wanting to have this done to a database/site etc.?
Something that would tell me the extra thickness that would occur from a type III anodize so I could account for that after machining and fitting slide, just as a example of one question that pops into my mind. Not even knowing there are many other questions I don't even know to ask about yet.

Hope this question makes sense, and I'm not asking for a hand holding, just if peoples have handy references and info that they could disseminate to the rest of those/us to help us handle it on our own....to a point.

Thanks.
Type III ano is beyond the reach of most home anodizers. So commercial outfits are going to be the only real option for Type III. Type III will indeed dimensionally change the workpiece, as the coating has some thickness (see below).

I spoke to Richard at KTO regarding the strength and durability of 6061-T6 Sig P22x frames and he had this to say:

Quote:
I have put thousands of rounds down range in an Alum with NO anodizing.
I sold close to 4000 in alum, and no one has ever said anything.
If everyone would like steel (same as 1911's), add $50.
If you really wanted a top notch coating, Hard Anodize with Teflon would be the better choice, hard and self lubricating. It does add .001 per surface, that means a hole will be .002 smaller. Slide rail width would be increased by .002, and depth by .001
When he says thousands of rounds he is talking about 9mm however, and did say that for safety he might go with steel for a .40 cal build rather than unanodized 6061.
And yes, back in the day he did sell that many of these frames.

So we're back to the Steel vs Aluminum quandary. The rub is that we must all agree, we can not mix n' match, unless we want at least 100 of each material.
So its 6061 for $250, or steel for $300. I'm not looking forward to hashing that out, I suppose we may need a fresh poll. Perhaps in the other official GB thread, I dunno.
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Last edited by goober; 08-28-2012 at 11:06 AM..
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  #230  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:56 AM
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well this kinda suck, I was planning on a P226 .40 build. Originally the Sig was gonna be 9mm but I'm looking into a CZ 75 SP-01 in 9mm, so I don't want a third handgun in 9mm.
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  #231  
Old 09-22-2012, 8:38 AM
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I have a small sherline mill and lathe and have been looking for a good project!
just PMed Goober for my request of 1
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  #232  
Old 11-18-2012, 2:46 PM
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I'm definitely interested in 1, possibly 2. Thanks.
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  #233  
Old 11-18-2012, 5:20 PM
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(also posted in other KTO Sig GB thread)
Hey folks-
Just a heads up and an apology... I have been on travel a whole lot lately and haven't been keeping this thread updated. But this GB is not dead!!!
I hope to get current counts, update the thread, and revive it fully following the Thx holiday.
Those of you that are interested, thank you for your patience. I've been in contact w/ Rick @ KTO and he is still on board. We just need to get our side figured out and we can make this GB a reality before EOY.
More soon.
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  #234  
Old 11-18-2012, 6:02 PM
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Thanks for the update. I am still interested.
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  #235  
Old 05-31-2014, 2:36 PM
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Did this ever transpire?
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  #236  
Old 05-31-2014, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40SS View Post
Did this ever transpire?
It sure did, and what a saga it was.
Thread title should be edited to reflect past tense.
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  #237  
Old 01-25-2015, 1:49 PM
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Can we start a new group buy? There are p228 parts kits on ebay now for $145... COMPLETE. I think we could come up with 100 buyers again. I'll take 4!
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  #238  
Old 01-25-2015, 2:18 PM
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Why would you want to go through this? You are better off carving a frame from a block of wood with a swiss army knife.
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  #239  
Old 01-29-2015, 9:39 AM
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hahahahahahaha
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  #240  
Old 02-01-2015, 6:46 PM
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I'm extremely happy with mine. Nicer than my store bought one. It was quite a saga.
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