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  #41  
Old 08-19-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalinejunkie View Post
You don't need to with this trimmer the inside and outside of the case mouth are smooth after the cut. I've loaded up and shot about 200 rounds from CTS trimmed cases so far with no problems
I load match ammo, I don't want risk the brass scratching the jacket on my bullets nor do I want it scratching my nice match chambers. I like these trimmers that index off the case shoulder because its quick, but once you factor in the chamfer/deburr the whole process slows down. I can pretty quickly process cases through my forster trimmer and with the 3-in-1 cutter it does the trimming, chamfer and deburr all in one step
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  #42  
Old 08-22-2012, 10:43 PM
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I ordered one in 223 and a 308 today!
Thanks!
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  #43  
Old 08-22-2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Finish it View Post
I ordered one in 223 and a 308 today!
Thanks!
Nice, I got em for .223 and .308 as well... don’t hesitate to contact the seller by e-mail if you have any questions. I have been talking to him on and off with questions and its some of the best service I have received in a long time.

He is also an experienced reloader and has helped me out over and above standard pre-sales and post-sale questions.
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2012, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 707electrician View Post
I load match ammo, I don't want risk the brass scratching the jacket on my bullets nor do I want it scratching my nice match chambers. I like these trimmers that index off the case shoulder because its quick, but once you factor in the chamfer/deburr the whole process slows down. I can pretty quickly process cases through my forster trimmer and with the 3-in-1 cutter it does the trimming, chamfer and deburr all in one step
Ah got it yeah if that works for you man stick with it.

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Originally Posted by Finish it View Post
I ordered one in 223 and a 308 today!
Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Nice, I got em for .223 and .308 as well... donít hesitate to contact the seller by e-mail if you have any questions. I have been talking to him on and off with questions and its some of the best service I have received in a long time.

He is also an experienced reloader and has helped me out over and above standard pre-sales and post-sale questions.
Awesome! Yeah he's a stand-up guy who actually cares about his customers
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  #45  
Old 08-25-2012, 2:32 PM
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Just got my .223 trimmer today. Love this thing, trimmed 300 cases within +/- .003 all with mixed headstamps. This thing trims like butter, leaves a clean cut.

Like others said you can probably get away without chamfering with boat-tail bullets, but I like to do it regardless.

Been trimming on a Lee zip trim up until now, night and freaking day difference.

Great, simple design. I will be getting one in 300 Blackout soon.
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  #46  
Old 08-25-2012, 7:43 PM
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I just bought one of these drills to avoid having to use my cordless drill. I picked it up at harbor freight. The advantage is that it has a variable speed and a trigger lock so it will run consistently at a specified RPM. And it's cheap. I just need some time to build some kind of jig to hold the drill in place.

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-t...rill-3670.html

Looks like it will go good with this trimmer.

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  #47  
Old 08-25-2012, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sideline Shooter View Post
I just bought one of these drills to avoid having to use my cordless drill. I picked it up at harbor freight. The advantage is that it has a variable speed and a trigger lock so it will run consistently at a specified RPM. And it's cheap. I just need some time to build some kind of jig to hold the drill in place.

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-t...rill-3670.html

Looks like it will go good with this trimmer.

sideline shooter
I like the price and the idea... keep in mind, if that drill has a lot of runout (wobbly chuck), you wonít enjoy trimming cases. Not saying it does, but something to consider before you start pointing blame at the CTS.

I say this because I ended up buying a new hand drill because my Hitachi was beat to hell from use over the years that when I started trimming cases I got a lot of chatter from the cutting head. Ended up buying a new drill and the difference was huge.
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  #48  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:44 PM
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My CTS trimmer arrived in the mail this morning (took more than a week to ship out afater ordering). WOW what an awesome tool! I breezed through 100s of cases with no problems, smooth as butter and really consistant results.

I found a much easier way to setup the trimmer than the instructions. Take a case and measure it to make sure it is at least a little longer than your target trimmed length. Trim it by hand with the tool a little and measure it again. Keep trimming a little more until it is the right length. Then loosen the screws, insert the case and tighten them up again. All following cases will come out the same length as your test case.

The CTS tool is well worth buying. Great review, great product :-)
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  #49  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sideline Shooter View Post
...I just need some time to build some kind of jig to hold the drill in place...
This is what I use. Will clamp to anything up to about 2.5" thick, drill can be mounted at any angle, and either horiz or vert. Keeps the drill nice and stable with a wide backing plate and the clamp and plate are rubber coated for grip and tool protection.
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  #50  
Old 09-22-2012, 6:31 PM
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I wrote the seller Jim about trimming 260Rem cases. He said I'd need another trimmer. The cutter for each caliber is specially made. OP, you mentioned he said it's better to lube inside the neck.

Why lube the neck if there is no pilot going in?
Does the cutter 'chamfer' the case mouth at all? It's hard to imagine the cutter not leave any burrs or sharp edges.

WFT 308win trimmer also works on 7mm-08, 260 and 243. I have 308 & 260 so it'd mean I'd buy one ($70) instead of 2 CTS trimmers ($86).
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  #51  
Old 09-22-2012, 6:40 PM
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The cutter doesn’t chamfer / deburr the case like those 3-way cutter heads you see on the market, but the cut from the CTS is a clean cut with little to no burrs or sharp edges.

I can get away without chamfer/deburring my cases if I use boat tail bullets, but I chamfer anyways. I don’t deburr the outside of the case neck. The cut is clean enough to skip that step.

There is no need to lube the inside of the case neck. There is lube on the outside of my cases from FL resizing, I then trim, and tumble… I find the trimmer runs a little smoother with the residual lube on the outside.

I understand the trimmers are caliber specific and index off the case shoulder. You should write Jim for additional details…
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  #52  
Old 09-22-2012, 7:04 PM
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I don't see why you would need another trimmer for .260 if you have one that is for .308 since it indexes off the shoulder and the .308 and .260 cases are exactly the same with the exception of the neck
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  #53  
Old 09-23-2012, 1:48 PM
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Just an update, i finally got to try out one of my CTS trimmers yesterday. I trimmed about 700 rounds of 223 with my cordless Dewalt and I'm very pleased. The constancy was great, the time saving is huge and the chamfer and deburr is minimal.
Thanks for the review this is exactly what I was looking for!
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  #54  
Old 09-25-2012, 6:40 PM
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The lubing the inside of the case neck was for the resizing step he said it makes the cases more consistent. I don't personally do it but I trust what he says. And Finish It it's good to hear you're happy with it! I still have no complaints with mine
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  #55  
Old 09-26-2012, 7:01 PM
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I was under the impression that the cases should be lube free before trimming in the CTS. Am I wrong? I have one in .223 & another in 300BLK. Great consistency with the .223 but seem to not be as consistent with the 300BLK. My 300BLK trim to length is 1.363. I'm getting measurements of +/- .003 but mostly on the + side. If I'm not loading for match type ammo, is this ok? I'm thinking it is so long as I don't go over max SAAMI.
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  #56  
Old 09-26-2012, 9:03 PM
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Never heard of lubing cases before trimming. CTS doesn't even use a pilot. I cannot see how lubing the inside of the neck would help trimming.
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  #57  
Old 09-26-2012, 11:25 PM
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My question about lube still being on the case was in reference to ExtremeX's post above. I thought I read somewhere that they should be free of lube. Can't recall where I read it.
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  #58  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Roaries7 View Post
My question about lube still being on the case was in reference to ExtremeX's post above. I thought I read somewhere that they should be free of lube. Can't recall where I read it.
You donít need lube... but it doesnít hurt either... I confirmed this with Jim.

My cases are already lubed from resizing... it goes straight to trimming after that. The operation FEELs smoother, since the trimmer isnít riding on a dry case wall... it also scuffs the case less.
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  #59  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
Never heard of lubing cases before trimming. CTS doesn't even use a pilot. I cannot see how lubing the inside of the neck would help trimming.
The lube isn’t for a pilot or inside the neck, it’s for the case walls / carrier insert...

I’ve trimmed over 1500 .223 cases so far with the CTS, having a little lube on the outside just feels better and smoother for me. Every 100 or so cases, I keep it spinning and hit the inside of the carrier insert with a q-tip to clean it up.

Note: I am not saying to lube the case, but the residual amount on the cases after re-sizing is perfect…
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  #60  
Old 09-27-2012, 5:30 PM
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That makes sense. It would at least cut down on the extra step of tumbling between resizing & trimming.
I mentioned in one of my posts that I'm getting some variations in my 300 BLK trimmed cases. Most are +.001 to +.003 on my trim length of 1.360. I assume this is ok as I'm not over SAAMI spec, but I was wondering what type of variations others are experiencing. I only get this with the 300BLK & not the .223REM cutter.
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  #61  
Old 09-27-2012, 6:30 PM
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I get those variations too… within a couple thou…

I think most of it has to do with how the shoulders were bumped back or if the shoulders were stretched during neck sizing. It’s a guess, but I think that’s what it might be. The trimmer is pretty consistent, but also keep it mind, you can see a little variation like that if you push on some cases harder than other.

For .223 I understand the cases can be anywhere from 1.740 to 1.760… I set mine at 1.750 and don’t really care about few thou of variation across the cases…
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  #62  
Old 09-27-2012, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
The lube isnít for a pilot or inside the neck, itís for the case walls / carrier insert...

Iíve trimmed over 1500 .223 cases so far with the CTS, having a little lube on the outside just feels better and smoother for me. Every 100 or so cases, I keep it spinning and hit the inside of the carrier insert with a q-tip to clean it up.

Note: I am not saying to lube the case, but the residual amount on the cases after re-sizing is perfectÖ
Gotcha, that makes sense. thanks
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  #63  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:56 PM
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Bringing back an old thread - just ordered, received and used a CTS trimmer for .223 this week. I spent a couple hours setting up and test trimming a couple cases.

Question for the guys who use this successfully: do you get a lot of play between the case and the delrin insert? I can wiggle my cases pretty significantly.

How hard are you pressing the case into the trimmer? If i go lightly, it seems like the bit just chatters off the neck. If i press with more force, the cutter bites, and i see nice chips or ribbons of brass being spit out.

Either method, i often get a neck with significant "flashing" - brass that I need to debur. From the experiences described in this thread, I presume I'm doing something incorrectly.

My drill is brand new - very little runout. The trimmer will spin with little to no wobble, and the case slips in without any vibration/chatter (until the bit engages). I do trim after i run the batch through a full-length resizing die.

Do any of you have suggestions?
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  #64  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:18 AM
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Yes... FL resize then trim the cases. As I mentioned above, I like to have a little residual lube from resizing, less friction against the delrin insert...

First step is make sure the trimmer is setup correct… trim a case and measure it to make sure the CTS is adjusted correctly… if not, manually trim a case by hand until you get your desired trim length, I use about 1.750… Loosen the set screws, push the case in all the way, firm, then lower the cutter onto the case and lock the setscrews… trim another case to verify.

I don’t have much wiggle with a fully trimmed case in the trimmer… maybe few thou of play…

Since you have a variable PRM drill, play with a few speeds until you find a sweet spot, finding a speed it likes helps a lot with the cut. I allow the cutter to get a good bite into the case, and rotate the case when I feel the cutting action ease up before pulling it out… I see the chips/ribbons as the trimmer doing its job correctly…

I still chamfer the inside of the case neck with a separate power tool… I don’t deburr the outside, rotating the case mentioned above gives a little deburring action, and it’s been good enough.

It sounds like the trimmer is fine, try a few more and just get a feel for it… wear gloves, its easier on your hands too.

Last edited by ExtremeX; 10-11-2012 at 12:25 AM..
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  #65  
Old 11-11-2012, 5:57 AM
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Thanks OP for posting this. I went ahead and got a 223/556 trimmer based on your review and all I can say is WOW!. Trimming is so much easier and the edge is clean. I just posted a short video review of this trimmer on my Youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vrM...&feature=g-upl

I didn't experience much "scratching" of my cases and the fine marks the trimmer left were an OK compromise to me since the edge the trimmer leaves is so clean.

Last edited by AndrewTannerCA; 11-11-2012 at 5:57 AM.. Reason: YT embed didn't work.
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  #66  
Old 11-11-2012, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewTannerCA View Post
Thanks OP for posting this. I went ahead and got a 223/556 trimmer based on your review and all I can say is WOW!. Trimming is so much easier and the edge is clean. I just posted a short video review of this trimmer on my Youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vrM...&feature=g-upl

I didn't experience much "scratching" of my cases and the fine marks the trimmer left were an OK compromise to me since the edge the trimmer leaves is so clean.
Good to hear! Also really nice video man glad people are liking these trimmers.
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  #67  
Old 11-12-2012, 8:40 PM
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That video has me sold on the CTS trimmer. I have an electric lyman, but it is slow, leaves a decent amount of bur, and takes a toll on my hands after a while. My brother and I could use this to prep 223/5.56 brass for our rifles. One person sizing and one trimming, would go quick. Then, maybe one to swage primer pockets and the other to prime. Then when we are ready to load, we just run the brass into the dillon 550 from the powder station. The 550 has a case feeder and won't run rifle brass, otherwise I would prime on the 550 also.
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  #68  
Old 11-14-2012, 3:21 AM
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Certainly was an in-depth and informative review, good job.

That being said, trimming is the single case preparation step with the least need for precision and is almost irrelevant to precision accuracy. There are only two instances where case length is a factor in handloading: First, when case length exceeds chamber neck length and causes difficult chambering or raises bullet pull and pressures. The second is in handloading rimless handgun cases where headspace is set on the case mouth. Too short and the primer may not ignite properly or at all, too long and the barrel may not go into battery. Taper crimping rimless handgun cases also is dependent on a uniform trim length, and to a lesser extent roll crimping rimmed revolver cases. In the latter instance trim length isn't as important as uniformity because the crimp die is adjusted to the trim length without regard to headspace concerns.

In bottle necked cases, especially those than do not require bullet crimping, case length is arbitrary, it can be set over a wide range without undue effects on accuracy. Generally, if we remain within the tolerance as listed in the manuals, we are okay. If a load is being assembled for big game hunting, where crimping is desirable, then once again uniformity of case length is more important than the actual length itself. Indeed, in the case of loading the "improved" type rifle cartridges, case necks actually shorten considerably upon form firing, negating the need to trim at all, except for the obsessive handloader as a means of uniforming case length.

After many years of using many different trimmers, from trim and form dies to the lathe tools, I have come to the conclusion that these new generations of "precision" trimmers are unnecessary. There is no actual benefit in using these tools, other than production speed, and even that is dubious. Of the trimmers on the market today, I find the Hornady Cam Lock trimmer to be as accurate as any. This trimmer uses the same Hornady shell holder as the press for case retention, and is adjusted without tools. The only tool needed is an Allen wrench to change the pilot. Other tools include the Forster and RCBS trimmers, and the Lyman which also offers a universal chuck that accommodates all commercial case heads and a tungsten carbide cutter.

All in all, I see no real (practical) advantage to these new trimmers. Of course there is the attraction of a new gadget to try, and even I am suckered into plunking my coin down once in a while, which is why I have a little used sonic case cleaner sitting on the bench.
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  #69  
Old 11-14-2012, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrangler John View Post
Certainly was an in-depth and informative review, good job.

That being said, trimming is the single case preparation step with the least need for precision and is almost irrelevant to precision accuracy. There are only two instances where case length is a factor in handloading: First, when case length exceeds chamber neck length and causes difficult chambering or raises bullet pull and pressures. The second is in handloading rimless handgun cases where headspace is set on the case mouth. Too short and the primer may not ignite properly or at all, too long and the barrel may not go into battery. Taper crimping rimless handgun cases also is dependent on a uniform trim length, and to a lesser extent roll crimping rimmed revolver cases. In the latter instance trim length isn't as important as uniformity because the crimp die is adjusted to the trim length without regard to headspace concerns.

In bottle necked cases, especially those than do not require bullet crimping, case length is arbitrary, it can be set over a wide range without undue effects on accuracy. Generally, if we remain within the tolerance as listed in the manuals, we are okay. If a load is being assembled for big game hunting, where crimping is desirable, then once again uniformity of case length is more important than the actual length itself. Indeed, in the case of loading the "improved" type rifle cartridges, case necks actually shorten considerably upon form firing, negating the need to trim at all, except for the obsessive handloader as a means of uniforming case length.

After many years of using many different trimmers, from trim and form dies to the lathe tools, I have come to the conclusion that these new generations of "precision" trimmers are unnecessary. There is no actual benefit in using these tools, other than production speed, and even that is dubious. Of the trimmers on the market today, I find the Hornady Cam Lock trimmer to be as accurate as any. This trimmer uses the same Hornady shell holder as the press for case retention, and is adjusted without tools. The only tool needed is an Allen wrench to change the pilot. Other tools include the Forster and RCBS trimmers, and the Lyman which also offers a universal chuck that accommodates all commercial case heads and a tungsten carbide cutter.

All in all, I see no real (practical) advantage to these new trimmers. Of course there is the attraction of a new gadget to try, and even I am suckered into plunking my coin down once in a while, which is why I have a little used sonic case cleaner sitting on the bench.
I respect that, everyone has their own preferred way of trimming. Case uniformity for me means even chamber pressure, round velocity, and seat length. I just like uniformity in my rounds.

I haven't tried the Cam Lock trimmer or any trimmer like that, but for blasting ammo where i'll be trimming hundreds of rounds in one sitting, just being able to push a round into an already moving trimmer without locking it in drastically cuts the time for less money than one like the Cam Lock.

That's not to say that the Cam Lock and those like it aren't of great quality, I just like something that will give me case uniformity while allowing me to trim hundreds of rounds per hour.
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  #70  
Old 11-14-2012, 7:45 PM
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Anyone use this trimmer with it chucked up in a lathe?

Just curious as to use, horizontal/vertical.

Will be ordering one for sure.
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  #71  
Old 11-14-2012, 8:05 PM
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Anyone use this trimmer with it chucked up in a lathe?

Just curious as to use, horizontal/vertical.

Will be ordering one for sure.
I havenít tried it chucked up to a lathe but it works fine in the horizontal positionÖ

I did try using it with my router table but I forgot how fast those damn things spinÖ unless you have a good speed controller to really dial it down I would recommend against it. It does seem like an ideal setup for this trimmer if you can control the speed.

Operation in a drill press works, but I really donít like shavings falling into the case and around the insert where it indexes, itís more worry free with the brass opening on top.

I would love to get a dedicated desk mounted motor for the thing, but the hand drill is working just fine for now until I save up pennies to get a Dillon 1200 trimmer.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:46 AM
Wrangler John Wrangler John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalinejunkie View Post
I respect that, everyone has their own preferred way of trimming. Case uniformity for me means even chamber pressure, round velocity, and seat length. I just like uniformity in my rounds.

I haven't tried the Cam Lock trimmer or any trimmer like that, but for blasting ammo where i'll be trimming hundreds of rounds in one sitting, just being able to push a round into an already moving trimmer without locking it in drastically cuts the time for less money than one like the Cam Lock.

That's not to say that the Cam Lock and those like it aren't of great quality, I just like something that will give me case uniformity while allowing me to trim hundreds of rounds per hour.
Okay, letís discuss some of those topics:

ďCase uniformity means even chamber pressure, round velocity and seat length.Ē

Trim length has a negligible effect on chamber pressure, unless allowed to stretch well beyond the Maximum Overall Length, where the case mouth exceeds lengthwise chamber neck clearance. As mentioned before, this can crimp the case mouth into the chamber lead and cause a pressure spike. Maintaining the Trim to Length as published will negate this condition. However, some loaders prefer to trim cases shorter to reduce the need to trim as frequently, say .010Ē under the trim-to-length, which will negligibly effect pressure or velocities. Uniformity involves trimming all cases in a batch to the same length, something that can be done with any of the commercial trimmers.

Velocity differences between cases trimmed with a few thousands of each other will be undetectable. The variables in velocities are mostly due to variations in the chemical reaction of the primer and powder burn going to exactly the same point every time. Other factors are too numerous to conclude that trim length is the culprit. Just the variation in chronograph accuracy is sufficient to cloud the cause. When these variables are stacked for any given shot, we are left with uncertainty.

Seating length is not established by neck length or trim-to-length, rather it is the relationship between the case head and the point where the bullet ogive contacts the rifling. This is regulated by the chamber throat dimension and can be adjusted by using a custom reamer designed for a particular cartridge/bullet combination or by use of a throating reamer to allow seating a given bullet out further. Using the published trim-to-length allows crimping cannelured bullets to standard COAL which is the main consideration.

Pushing cases into a rotating case trimmer barehanded is asking for trouble in my opinion. I have an aversion to placing any object onto or within any rotating tool, such as a bench grinder, without safety equipment. Anyone who has had a ĹĒ drill grab and stall, spinning the handle out of onesí grasp will know of what I speak. This opinion also applies to any of the powered case preparation centers that recommend freehand use. I would be more prone to use this product for power trimming, http://www.forsterproducts.com/catal...?prodid=700292 My preference for this tool rather than a dedicated power trimmer such as this one, http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/...ith_Motor.html is based on the fact that it can be powered by an inexpensive bench drill press, leaving the drill press function intact. The Lyman product http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod38634.aspx also allows for captured trimming without exposing fingers to harm and brass splinters.

Here is a 10 shot group at 100 yards with untrimmed Winchester brass right out of the bag, measured .206". Sometimes I just get too carried away with all the minutia of loading when it isn't necessary.



Happy trimming!
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:20 AM
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I love this CTS trimmer, it works perfect every time.
I'm ordering another one!
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-15-2012, 9:14 PM
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Just ordered. Thanks for the write-up. I'm excited. It takes me forever to load, it seems. Most of that time is spent trimming cases. It can literally take me an hour to process 100 cases... if the battery on my drill doesn't die. I've been using Lee equipment. Hopefully this will work out for me.

I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vrMAaLWmk

At about 1:30, he says that the manufacturer recommends not using small base dies, even for an AR. Anyone know why?
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Old 11-16-2012, 2:11 AM
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I bought this based on your vid/this post. Looking forward to it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewTannerCA View Post
Thanks OP for posting this. I went ahead and got a 223/556 trimmer based on your review and all I can say is WOW!. Trimming is so much easier and the edge is clean. I just posted a short video review of this trimmer on my Youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vrM...&feature=g-upl

I didn't experience much "scratching" of my cases and the fine marks the trimmer left were an OK compromise to me since the edge the trimmer leaves is so clean.
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Old 11-16-2012, 5:34 PM
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Does the manufacturer have a website? I haven't been able to find it.
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Old 11-26-2012, 2:50 PM
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I ordered a CTS trimmer, but then got an email from the guy that sells them, stating that he was refunding my money and would not be using paypal since they hold his money for 21 days. He offered to let me send him a check instead.............I am out of checks and never use them anymore.
He did say that he is going to put up a web site.

I need to contact him to see if he canceled the order yet. I'll post the outcome.
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Old 11-26-2012, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
I ordered a CTS trimmer, but then got an email from the guy that sells them, stating that he was refunding my money and would not be using paypal since they hold his money for 21 days. He offered to let me send him a check instead.............I am out of checks and never use them anymore.
He did say that he is going to put up a web site.

I need to contact him to see if he canceled the order yet. I'll post the outcome.
Yes let us know how you come out on this. I purchased from him on the 15th, no trimmer yet-but no email either. My money was transferred to his acct. so maybe it's just taking an inordinate amount of time to get to me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 9:00 PM
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I ordered mine on the 16th or so and got it within the last week I guess. He must be selling a bunch to have paypal hassle like that, but who the heck has checks?
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Old 11-26-2012, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kappy View Post
Does the manufacturer have a website? I haven't been able to find it.
I couldn't find one. only the email.

ctstrimmer@yahoo.com
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