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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:15 PM
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Dammm I stayed away for 6 months cause discussions were the same lol....
Guess I need to stay away again.. But ill say this
Ak74 beats Ar all day in every way except accuracy and it loses by about 1.5moa
So I'll take the 74's....
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
Any civilian isn't going to us either weapon in a manner that maintenance plays a role. You going to the range on the weekends is not the same as being on patrol. If you are discussing only civilian range time then almost every weapon is just as reliable as the next. Also, you clean both rifles. The difference is if you didn't clean either the AR would fail much faster than the AK (if it ever did). The AR can be just as reliable as the AK if you give it enormous amounts of maintenance. With an AK none of that is required. Not sure how you aren't understanding the reliability factors of these weapons.
Because like you said, no civilian is going to do zero cleaning/lube on their rifles. At least on a rifle they paid for.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddos View Post
Because like you said, no civilian is going to do zero cleaning/lube on their rifles. At least on a rifle they paid for.
So how does that make the two equal in reliability? That's like saying a Pinto and Viper are just as fast as each other because most people will obey traffic laws.

When it matters the AK is unmatched in reliability.
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:19 PM
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At Cabela's:

PMC .223 - $5.99
PMC 7.62x39 - 16.99

After 5000 rounds? You do the math. Around LA, you have to travel great distance to use a steel core ammo.
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:11 PM
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Got a link to the $5.99 PMC .223?
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:28 PM
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Chocolate... vanilla... vanilla... chocolate... Why not just have both?

I find it hard to decide between the ergonomics of both, as I like both. So I build and shoot both.
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  #47  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagedude88 View Post
High maintenance vs. low to no maintenance.

Have AKs but just got a new AR upper for my lower.

Break-in for my new AR:
1.Load one round.
2.Shoot one round.
3.Clean the barrel.
4.Repeat 1-3 25 times.

Break-in for an AK:
1.Load it.
2.Shoot it.
3.Repeat until you're out of ammo.
I never broke in my AR and it shoots great. Plus, it's been very low maintenance.

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  #48  
Old 11-12-2012, 2:34 AM
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I bought a russian made saiga in .223 for under $500 out the door at Turners with a chrome lined hammer forged barrel and of course its a piston gun.

How much would a similar AR in piston configuration cost? I don't know, but its more.

I figured for the money its a steal. I'd have liked an M&P sport but it wasn't on sale and I'm cheap :-)

Oh I bought a C&R sks for $250 a few weeks ago for 7.62.

Jeez I'm cheap.
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  #49  
Old 11-12-2012, 3:31 AM
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... HOW'D that RINO work out for ya'... AGAIN!
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  #50  
Old 11-12-2012, 6:01 AM
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Lol not this again. The funniest part is people still respond seriously.
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  #51  
Old 11-12-2012, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sass2924 View Post
If you want the " Beyonce " of rifles get the AR. It will look good on your shoulder and put out some of the time, maybe not when you want it but when I t feels like it.
I should just make a sticky thread with my camping story so I can stop typing it.

Supposedly "mediocre" quality DS Arms upper (not chrome lined! zomg!), home built Spikes lower with cheapo Stag LPK, pinned 10/20 pmags, 1,000 rd case of underpowered, steel cased Tula .223, BLM land out past Barstow in the middle of a rain storm, humid as hell, and the dirt wasn't dirt so much as fine dirt powder, so the mud wasn't so much mud as it was cowpie in consistency. Oh, and I hadn't cleaned or lubed the AR for a couple hundred rounds already.

So I also had a Spikes 16" midlength, but my Eotech magnifier screwed itself (the entire prism assembly inside came loose and cracked itself on the rear lens. If you want the story there, search for my thread on it last year ) only about 100rds in. So my cousin and I switched to the DSA. ~800 rounds later (mag dumping, in the rain, in the mud, dirty as hell, no cleaning or lubing, hell, he even dropped it into the mud on accident at one point :P), I finally get my first jam. Failure to feed. Keep shooting, starts getting a FTF once every ~15 rounds or so. Sad panda.

I thought I had finally found the limits of my AR's reliability (800rds of crap underpowered Tula in the middle of a rainstorm in the mud? Heck, not bad considering all you guys who think you have to clean them every 100 rounds or they'll die :P). About 2 months later those mags started jamming the exact same way in a different clean rifle....I figured out that whoever made them had done a crappy job and put this giant block in that was interfering with the spring and made it all bind up. So actually....it wasn't even my AR that jammed, it was my crappily-pinned mags.

I still wonder sometimes how long I could have gone in the rain with that AR and that ammo before getting a real jam.

But you're right, they only put out when they feel like it. Luckily, their last job was as a porn star due to their nympomania, so they always feel like it.

(And yes, my break-in method, even for my 0.6 MOA AR308, has been "take ammo, fire rifle, sight in rifle". Barrel break in arguably screws up your barrel)

I clean my rifles about once every x00 rds. And by "clean" I mean "clean my BCG and run a boresnake through the barrel". If I'm really feeling anal, I'll use Q-tips to wipe off the barrel extension/chamber just so it's shiny. ;P


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
Any civilian isn't going to us either weapon in a manner that maintenance plays a role. You going to the range on the weekends is not the same as being on patrol. If you are discussing only civilian range time then almost every weapon is just as reliable as the next. Also, you clean both rifles. The difference is if you didn't clean either the AR would fail much faster than the AK (if it ever did). The AR can be just as reliable as the AK if you give it enormous amounts of maintenance. With an AK none of that is required. Not sure how you aren't understanding the reliability factors of these weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddos View Post
I really don't understand the maitenance aspect that people keep bringing up. I own both rifles, and it's generally more work to clean the ak than my ar if I clean the piston and gas tube. I lube the bolt carrier for both guns because they are my personal rifles and I want both of them to wear as little as possible.
In theory the AK is more reliable if you are a dirtbag pirate or afghan, but any civilian that cleans his/her rifle shouldn't notice much of a difference. The only except I can think of is some of the old steel case ar ammo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagedude88 View Post
High maintenance vs. low to no maintenance.
Have AKs but just got a new AR upper for my lower.
Break-in for my new AR:
1.Load one round.
2.Shoot one round.
3.Clean the barrel.
4.Repeat 1-3 25 times.

Break-in for an AK:
1.Load it.
2.Shoot it.
3.Repeat until you're out of ammo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
When I really really want a reliable rifle...
I shoot my direct impingement "AR15".

Last edited by GettoPhilosopher; 11-12-2012 at 8:06 AM..
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  #52  
Old 11-12-2012, 8:04 AM
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the ak is faster to clean and take apart. In my opinion it is also easier to teach someone how to use an ak than an ar.
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  #53  
Old 11-12-2012, 8:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sass2924 View Post
If you want the " Beyonce " of rifles get the AR.
Comparing a rifle to Beyonce just because she is black means one thing and one thing only, you're racist
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  #54  
Old 11-12-2012, 8:34 AM
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The Achilles heel of the AR has been the quality and design of magazines fixed by Pmag and even the 5.56 cartridge design are less reliable to feed than X.XXx39.
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  #55  
Old 11-12-2012, 8:44 AM
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What's there to argue about? Granted, they're different weapons, but I prefer an M1 over an AR15... or are you guys talking about the baby 7.62? Those are cute.
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  #56  
Old 11-12-2012, 8:54 AM
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I choose.... Both!

And P.S. It is all about the shooter much more than the rifle or caliber. A lot of suburban "mall ninja" types with their coveted, expensive safe queen 'tactical' rifles and high end gear would be little more than slowly moving cannon fodder in a real fight.
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  #57  
Old 11-12-2012, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I choose.... Both!

And P.S. It is all about the shooter much more than the rifle or caliber. A lot of suburban "mall ninja" types with their coveted, expensive safe queen 'tactical' rifles and high end gear would be little more than slowly moving cannon fodder in a real fight.
not true

I bet a few of us could get the 5 to 6 person kill streak by using our perks, and be able to call in helo or harrier support.
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  #58  
Old 11-12-2012, 9:41 AM
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PS. This is a weekly topic :-)
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  #59  
Old 11-12-2012, 9:46 AM
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On account of we ain't COMMIES!
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  #60  
Old 11-12-2012, 9:50 AM
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We're 'Merican!
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  #61  
Old 11-12-2012, 2:07 PM
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  #62  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve33 View Post
Comparing apples to oranges. The AR is more accurate and customizable. The AK is more reliable and powerful. Get both, be happy.
Wise words.
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  #63  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:27 AM
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as you get older,and gain more patience,you will shoot 1 time ,1 kill with a M91-30 mosin nagant. even the us military gave up "spray and pray" technology.... i do believe a 7.62X54R cartridge is cheaper than a 7.62X39 ak cartridge and can be fired at P2K... an nice SKS would fit between M91-30 and AK nicely.
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  #64  
Old 11-13-2012, 7:36 AM
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Blah I have both.
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  #65  
Old 11-13-2012, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
A true enthusiast should own both. It is important to have as much familiarity with as many different weapon platforms as possible. Study them, learn them, understand them. It's a fun hobby.


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  #66  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:12 AM
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if finances will allow...i will soon hae an AK to go along with my AR
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