Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,094
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default security camera system

I've been having issue with a so called " friend" where he's too comfortable around my house and apparently he came into my garage without my knowledge. Among other things, I felt the need to install a security camera system just for unsavory characters in general.

My question is how useful is a camera system used for evidence in court? I know it seems like a silly question, but let's say the person in question face isn't clearly visible but a vehicle registered to him is. Would that be sufficient enough to give to law enforcement on a CD?
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 11-09-2012 at 12:57 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-09-2012, 1:18 PM
Claybone's Avatar
Claybone Claybone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 127
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

It depends on what was the reason you are in court. If you are looking to get a restrainig order or was some of your prperty missing. Articulation is the name of the game in court. Sorry your friend is pushing your boundries. As for the video clarity does the video capture the suspect exiting the vehicle your friend owns? Is the License plate is visable on that vehicle? if so then it is reasonable to think it is him. Also if it wasnt him then who did he let use his vehicle. Or why didnt he report his vehicle stolen???
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-09-2012, 1:42 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,094
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claybone View Post
It depends on what was the reason you are in court. If you are looking to get a restrainig order or was some of your prperty missing. Articulation is the name of the game in court. Sorry your friend is pushing your boundries. As for the video clarity does the video capture the suspect exiting the vehicle your friend owns? Is the License plate is visable on that vehicle? if so then it is reasonable to think it is him. Also if it wasnt him then who did he let use his vehicle. Or why didnt he report his vehicle stolen???
I set the system up after the incident. I've had several instances besides this where a camera would have been nice. For example a drunk driver hit my car and total'd it in the street and I came out one morning to see the car sideways in the street . I've been meaning to do it in general for awhile anyways. It's hard to capture the license plate as the camera's resolution from more than 20-40+ ft. becomes somewhat distorted.

The next question is should I use the camera as a deterrent? Or should I conceal them in the hopes of catching somebody " in the act" kinda deal.
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 11-09-2012 at 1:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-09-2012, 1:57 PM
Claybone's Avatar
Claybone Claybone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 127
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Yup the deterrent is your best bet and or flood lights you would supprised how well they work. Proactive is always better than reactive. As for catching the person on video is good aslong as the person is identifiable by some means (scar,limp, finger print left in a spot that the suspect was seen touching, and of course the OH ***** im on camera look, special type of jacket maybe. Remember you would have to make a police report and be ready to take time form work to testify in court for the arrest when it is made.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-09-2012, 3:07 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 3,078
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacit Blue View Post

My question is how useful is a camera system used for evidence in court? I know it seems like a silly question, but let's say the person in question face isn't clearly visible but a vehicle registered to him is. Would that be sufficient enough to give to law enforcement on a CD?
Evidence in court is hard to comment on as each court will have a slightly different interpretation of significant case law. Without a clear image of the actual person who is the suspect, and just a vehicle picture, I'd be inclined to treat it like a hit and run with just a plate#. The car did not commit the crime a person did and if no one can ID the driver, there isn't much to go on. Yeah some people will fess up when confronted, but that seems to be the exception more than the rule any longer. I can say that I would take the video, and see what happens when I contact the other party.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-10-2012, 1:01 AM
Heiko's Avatar
Heiko Heiko is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,027
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

I would put it where it is visible as a deterrent. The location should ideally also be out of reach for vandals or subjects who would want to disable it.

As far as the video being useful for court, I'm going to go with a criminal case scenario instead of a neighbor dispute or something like that. It could be helpful even if it does not clearly identify the subject or license plate. Obviously if neither of those things are discernible a suspect may never be caught but if one is, the video could corroborate or be corroborated by other evidence. It will place a person at the location at a particular time and date and a with a particular vehicle.

Say for example your garage is burg'd. Your camera records a white male about 6' tall, long brown hair, goatee, wearing a white tank top and black pants arrive and leave in a blue Ford F150. You cannot make out the details of the face nor the license plate. At some later time, the suspect is contacted by LE in a blue F150 and he matches the general physical features and he is in possession of your property, or is trying to use a credit card stolen out of your house or passing a bad check he stole from you. He claims he found whatever the property is or denies any knowledge. Your video could be used to circumstantially put him at your house and make him the suspect in the burg. Just because the video does not show everything clearly does not mean it loses its probative value in court. It could be used as circumstantial evidence to link the suspect who is arrested later is the guy who burg'd your house. That also means that a case of possession of stolen property can turn into a first degree burglary which is a strike offense (for now, seeing as how CA is going these days with the likes of Prop 36!).

Also, even if your video does not get his face clearly or the license plate, often times the cops in your area could recognize who it is just based on the overall physical stature and movement of the subject and the vehicle. They know the bad guys and their vehicles so could develop a suspect lead based on just that. I'd bet many of the guys here have had that experience even just hearing a physical description and vehicle description, and possibly type of crime, and immediately know who the dirtbag is by name and last booking number.

If you get a system with multiple cameras and the right kind of DVR you can monitor your house live and by Internet and iPhone. One of the things I love most about having my system is being able to look at my monitor and see who's at the door or where my dog is on the property.

Last edited by Heiko; 11-10-2012 at 1:03 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 2:55 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,094
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiko View Post
I would put it where it is visible as a deterrent. The location should ideally also be out of reach for vandals or subjects who would want to disable it.

As far as the video being useful for court, I'm going to go with a criminal case scenario instead of a neighbor dispute or something like that. It could be helpful even if it does not clearly identify the subject or license plate. Obviously if neither of those things are discernible a suspect may never be caught but if one is, the video could corroborate or be corroborated by other evidence. It will place a person at the location at a particular time and date and a with a particular vehicle.

Say for example your garage is burg'd. Your camera records a white male about 6' tall, long brown hair, goatee, wearing a white tank top and black pants arrive and leave in a blue Ford F150. You cannot make out the details of the face nor the license plate. At some later time, the suspect is contacted by LE in a blue F150 and he matches the general physical features and he is in possession of your property, or is trying to use a credit card stolen out of your house or passing a bad check he stole from you. He claims he found whatever the property is or denies any knowledge. Your video could be used to circumstantially put him at your house and make him the suspect in the burg. Just because the video does not show everything clearly does not mean it loses its probative value in court. It could be used as circumstantial evidence to link the suspect who is arrested later is the guy who burg'd your house. That also means that a case of possession of stolen property can turn into a first degree burglary which is a strike offense (for now, seeing as how CA is going these days with the likes of Prop 36!).

Also, even if your video does not get his face clearly or the license plate, often times the cops in your area could recognize who it is just based on the overall physical stature and movement of the subject and the vehicle. They know the bad guys and their vehicles so could develop a suspect lead based on just that. I'd bet many of the guys here have had that experience even just hearing a physical description and vehicle description, and possibly type of crime, and immediately know who the dirtbag is by name and last booking number.

If you get a system with multiple cameras and the right kind of DVR you can monitor your house live and by Internet and iPhone. One of the things I love most about having my system is being able to look at my monitor and see who's at the door or where my dog is on the property.
Thank you all the for the advice! very useful input.

I'm using a Lorex 4 Channel with a computer capture card. I got the the driveway covered the side street leading to a "cul de sac". That's a total of two for now. I think it does have a remote access feature and movement sensor alert, but that could be triggerd by anything.

The item in question my " friend " took was gym equipment ( dumb bells) and I had him return it and we had a big fall out after I confronted him this week. But he also knows I have firearms in the house , so getting the camera is now even a better reassurance and peace of mind for me. I think anybody who owns guns should at least consider getting a camera system, it's really a cheap investment compared to everything in the long run. And it would even help law enforcement identify them.
__________________
"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov *...

Last edited by Tacit Blue; 11-10-2012 at 2:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:48 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.