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  #1  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:41 AM
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Default training accident... Any info?

Just heard that there has been a tragic accident at a rifle class. Anyone have any info on this? My buddy won't disclose all the details.., ;(
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:46 AM
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:18 AM
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oh wow... muzzle sweep???
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:21 AM
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Sounds bad. Hope it's just hearsay.
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIEFone View Post
oh wow... muzzle sweep???


That's what I'm thinking...
Hope not!
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:31 AM
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All I know that it was negligence and completely preventable and involved a shoot house...
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:35 AM
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ADE? lol
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:36 AM
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Wow...a Firearms instructor of mine opined that a ND hit with a long gun usually is fatal...so don't ND! Sad story...hoping to hear more about the circs.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:37 AM
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If this is local, there aren't too many shoothouses that I know of, except Burro.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:41 AM
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Couldn't be related to this could it?

http://www.cbs8.com/story/19948069/h...t-in-san-diego

That would suck.
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:01 PM
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It's frustrating because he my friend will not outright say what occurred... I know it was bad and it's not FUD or hearsay... I don't think it was locally here in So Cal...
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:13 PM
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Some friend. "Hey something bad happened to somebody. You might know them. But I'm not telling you any more." WTH?
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Maybe wait until you actually have information before posting?
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  #14  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:32 PM
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http://soldiersystems.net/2012/11/08...ful-out-there/

This?
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2012, 2:45 PM
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Wow, that link ^^^ makes the OT look like a British tea party
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Old 11-08-2012, 2:45 PM
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I thought it was non-fatal?
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2012, 2:48 PM
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This one? But it was not fatal though serious:

In light of what happened this past Sunday night.
Due to assumptions and not taking all steps I could have taken that may have prevented the tragedy, my good friend and amazing human being Gene Smithson was severely injured during a live fire training.
Gene is in the hospital in Dallas recovering from his injuries. All I ask for is for your prayers and support for Gene during this trying time and then during lenghty recovery process.
All responsibility for what happened lies with me and nobody else. I will do my best to support Gene and his loved ones, his school for as long as needed.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2012, 5:44 PM
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@sarcoblaster and billorights.. It's called a NDA so my friend could not telle the specifics ... I posted because I was concerned and curious as to what happened and hoped the trainer shot was ok.
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2012, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post
Wow...a Firearms instructor of mine opined that a ND hit with a long gun usually is fatal...so don't ND! Sad story...hoping to hear more about the circs.
True DAT! You can take a cap in the ash from a pistol, and live, but from a rifle? Bad mojo.
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:02 PM
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It happened during a shoot house portion, Gene and a student was doing an AAR after a run in the house. Sonny Puzikas enters first room engages targets (no lights). Gene and student did not positively ID their presence in the second room, Sonny goes into room two, engages target with failure drill with Gene standing in front of that target and the student nearby. Two to abdomen, one to the arm. Sonny shooting under no light at a target he previously set up. But the problem compounded when Sonny did not account for all people in the class, the people in the shoot house upon hearing the shots, did not ID their presence, and shooting in low light with out a light to ID target.......sigh

It's not fatal but is serious......

Sonny owe up to the mistake and I am glad at least it wasn't a 5.45 it 7.62...

Never met Gene, but hope he have a speedy recovery....
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  #21  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:19 PM
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Thanks for the info Chen...
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  #22  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badicedog View Post
Thanks for the info Chen...
This is only information I have heard over the course of today. Actual facts could vary.

The important thing is the AI will recover.
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:43 PM
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@SMGLee.. This just reinforces the need for protective equipment such as plates/armor for these advanced type classes. I'm glad it was not a fatal accident!
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  #24  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:52 PM
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http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthrea...t=70875&page=2
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  #25  
Old 11-09-2012, 6:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badicedog View Post
@SMGLee.. This just reinforces the need for protective equipment such as plates/armor for these advanced type classes. I'm glad it was not a fatal accident!
+1

I wear armor in all classes I attend, both pistol and/or rifle.
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  #26  
Old 11-09-2012, 7:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badicedog View Post
@SMGLee.. This just reinforces the need for protective equipment such as plates/armor for these advanced type classes. I'm glad it was not a fatal accident!
While obviously armor should be worn in a class like this (Every reputable CQB course that I know of require it anyways...), this incident has NOTHING to do with armor. This is plain and simple negligence. Everyone who has run a live fire shoot-house should know to get accountability before running it and to also physically clear it to make sure there are no stragglers inside. On top of that, he broke fundamental firearms safety rules by not positively identifying his target and/or ensuring the foreground and background was clear...

If anything the big lesson here is to not train with instructors who are not qualified to teach such a high level course.
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  #27  
Old 11-09-2012, 7:18 AM
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This is a good reminder to be observant of others actions and educate them on safety when needed. Of course when it comes to advanced shooters, it's more complacency than it is lack of education.
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  #28  
Old 11-09-2012, 7:50 AM
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thanks for the info SMGLee, glad the person hit will be alright.
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  #29  
Old 11-09-2012, 8:32 AM
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Good thing he wasn't better at that failure drill and didn't make a head shot, hope he gets better. I've done courses with a shoot house, it was done with simunitions though. I've also done a live fire shoot house with folks who probably shouldn't have been doing a shoot house.
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  #30  
Old 11-09-2012, 9:29 AM
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SMGLee Rocks! Thanks for the info.
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  #31  
Old 11-09-2012, 5:36 PM
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edited title to remove the word fatal.
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  #32  
Old 11-09-2012, 8:02 PM
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Roger...
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2012, 5:10 AM
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@badicedog

Although I do not agree that students should wear armor this seems like a good idea after the fact.

A better idea would be to follow the four basic firearm safety rules (#4 comes to mind) and to account for all your students before running a COF.
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Old 11-10-2012, 8:19 AM
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You don't think wearing armor for cqb shoot house classes should be required?
Please explain
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  #35  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:25 PM
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@ CorbinDallas... All reputable instructors would not accept students that do not have advanced firearms training under their belts for an advanced class like this(CQB/room clearing). Further, they will also require that students not only have Armor vests/carriers, also blow out kits(clotting agents/tourniquet). The idiot at hand failed to follow the safety measures/guidelines set forth as to minimize these type of accidents from occurring in the first place...
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  #36  
Old 11-10-2012, 9:20 PM
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this is clearly a case of people being too comfortable at the range and getting lazy about clearing and counting everyone before each run.

two rifle rounds to the stomache is a serious injury. hopefully the rounds missed his liver and kidneys and he has enough intestines left that hes gonna be able to digest his food properly after he heals up.
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  #37  
Old 11-11-2012, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Hated View Post
this is clearly a case of people being too comfortable at the range and getting lazy about clearing and counting everyone before each run.

two rifle rounds to the stomache is a serious injury. hopefully the rounds missed his liver and kidneys and he has enough intestines left that hes gonna be able to digest his food properly after he heals up.
I agree thus why most CQB training courses that I have seen requires full armor with ballistic helmet. Anyways I also read that the rounds were actually 9mm not rifle rounds.
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Old 11-11-2012, 7:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Hated View Post
this is clearly a case of people being too comfortable at the range and getting lazy about clearing and counting everyone before each run.
Not to mention the bonehead fired all 3 shots without identifying the target.

More here... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/138...oothouse_.html
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  #39  
Old 11-12-2012, 7:09 AM
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The good news is, he won't be doing this active shooter class next year. Or if he is, he won't have many students.
https://www.facebook.com/events/509236312439004/
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:02 PM
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Not going to cast judgement on Sonny P but from what I understand he has no experience nor should be teaching any CQB techniques. Also I've heard he only took a CQB course from another trainer and after the course completion decided to incorporate to his course. It is like taking a martial arts seminar then after the course decide to charge people and train them as an expert. Bad JuJu right there.
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