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  #281  
Old 05-14-2012, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pthfndr View Post
If you registered it under RR then you are ok. You did not need to register it a second time.
Thank you Pathfinder. I really appreciate you stopping by and delivering some expertise. The newer gun laws I'm finding about now are such a tangled mess of standards, it's tough to tell. Both I and a friend carefully reviewed the flowchart, yet were not confident in our opinion. Luckily, I've kept track of the '89 RR paperwork and now keep it in my range bag.

Last edited by Dinosaur Jr; 05-14-2012 at 8:11 PM..
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  #282  
Old 05-24-2012, 8:03 AM
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can anyone post some info on 80% lowers it seems to me that people with 80% lowers are like fish out of water or sitting ducks to the eyes of LEO
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  #283  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:31 AM
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You can't say enough about having a pleasant and non-challenging demeaner. This all happened in Southern California. About three years ago I was returning home from a hunting trip and was tired and eager to get home and so I ran a stop sign (it was at night). I didn't notice that the car behind me was a police car. Of course I got pulled over but I had two bloody pig carcases in the back of my truck and three hunting rifles , in cases, laying across the back seat. I simple cooperated with the LEO and didn't challenge him on anything. The ticket was given and I drove off, no mention of the bloody carcasses in the back of the truck nor the rifles was made.

The mind sees what it expects to see. I was not a threat nor a trouble maker and that is exactly what the LEO saw.
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  #284  
Old 06-27-2012, 3:49 AM
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I have been practicing criminal law for 24 years and have seen a wide variety of reactions by people who are being arrested. Some of these reactions are unwise but understandable. Others are self defeating to the point of being bizarre. No one plans to be arrested, but it might help to think just once about what you will do and not do if you ever hear the phrase “Put your hands behind you.” The simplest “to do” rule is to do what you are told. Simple, but somehow it often escapes someone who is either scared or intoxicated. More important to guarding your rights and interests are ten things you SHOULD NOT do:

1. Don’t try to convince the officer of your innocence. It’s useless. He or she only needs “probable cause” to believe you have committed a crime in order to arrest you. He does not decide your guilt and he actually doesn’t care if you are innocent or not. It is the job of the judge or jury to free you if he is wrong. If you feel that urge to convince him he’s made a mistake, remember the overwhelming probability that instead you will say at least one thing that will hurt your case, perhaps even fatally. It is smarter to save your defense for your lawyer!

2. Don’t run. It’s highly unlikely a suspect could outrun ten radio cars converging on a block in mere seconds. I saw a case where a passenger being driven home by a drunk friend bolted and ran. Why? It was the driver they wanted, and she needlessly risked injury in a forceful arrest. Even worse, the police might have suspected she ran because she had a gun, perhaps making them too quick to draw their own firearms. Most police will just arrest a runner, but there are some who will be mad they had to work so hard and injure the suspect unnecessarily.

3. Keep quiet. My hardest cases to defend are those where the suspect got very talkative. Incredibly, many will start babbling without the police having asked a single question. My most vivid memory of this problem was the armed robbery suspect who blurted to police: “How could the guy identify me? The robbers were wearing masks.” To which the police smiled and responded, “Oh? Were they?” Judges and juries will discount or ignore what a suspect says that helps him, but give great weight to anything that seems to hurt him. In 24 years of criminal practice, I could count on one hand the number of times a suspect was released because of what he told the police after they arrested him.

4. Don’t give permission to search anywhere. If they ask, it probably means they don’t believe they have the right to search and need your consent. If you are ordered to hand over your keys, state loudly “You do NOT have my permission to search.” If bystanders hear you, whatever the police find may be excluded from evidence later. This is also a good reason not to talk, even if it seems all is lost when they find something incriminating.
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  #285  
Old 06-27-2012, 8:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonparis638 View Post


I have been practicing criminal law for 24 years and have seen a wide variety of reactions by people who are being arrested. Some of these reactions are unwise but understandable. Others are self defeating to the point of being bizarre. No one plans to be arrested, but it might help to think just once about what you will do and not do if you ever hear the phrase “Put your hands behind you.” The simplest “to do” rule is to do what you are told. Simple, but somehow it often escapes someone who is either scared or intoxicated. More important to guarding your rights and interests are ten things you SHOULD NOT do:

1. Don’t try to convince the officer of your innocence. It’s useless. He or she only needs “probable cause” to believe you have committed a crime in order to arrest you. He does not decide your guilt and he actually doesn’t care if you are innocent or not. It is the job of the judge or jury to free you if he is wrong. If you feel that urge to convince him he’s made a mistake, remember the overwhelming probability that instead you will say at least one thing that will hurt your case, perhaps even fatally. It is smarter to save your defense for your lawyer!

2. Don’t run. It’s highly unlikely a suspect could outrun ten radio cars converging on a block in mere seconds. I saw a case where a passenger being driven home by a drunk friend bolted and ran. Why? It was the driver they wanted, and she needlessly risked injury in a forceful arrest. Even worse, the police might have suspected she ran because she had a gun, perhaps making them too quick to draw their own firearms. Most police will just arrest a runner, but there are some who will be mad they had to work so hard and injure the suspect unnecessarily.

3. Keep quiet. My hardest cases to defend are those where the suspect got very talkative. Incredibly, many will start babbling without the police having asked a single question. My most vivid memory of this problem was the armed robbery suspect who blurted to police: “How could the guy identify me? The robbers were wearing masks.” To which the police smiled and responded, “Oh? Were they?” Judges and juries will discount or ignore what a suspect says that helps him, but give great weight to anything that seems to hurt him. In 24 years of criminal practice, I could count on one hand the number of times a suspect was released because of what he told the police after they arrested him.

4. Don’t give permission to search anywhere. If they ask, it probably means they don’t believe they have the right to search and need your consent. If you are ordered to hand over your keys, state loudly “You do NOT have my permission to search.” If bystanders hear you, whatever the police find may be excluded from evidence later. This is also a good reason not to talk, even if it seems all is lost when they find something incriminating.
this is good stuff where are the other six?
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  #286  
Old 07-03-2012, 1:12 AM
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this is good stuff where are the other six?
+1
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  #287  
Old 10-23-2012, 5:40 PM
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Can someone post or give me a pdf file for that warning sign that some of you carry ini your rifle case...

IT goes something like this :

WARNING.... This rifle is Ca compliant, and is registered with DOJ, according to latest DOJ and XXXXXXXXXX rulings. etc. Please do not touch this, and let me load or render this rifle...XXXXXXXX

etc.

and then they carry a copy of Precedent lawsuit or ruling, and a copy of current laws.


I read it last week, but did not have time to print it. NOw I cannot find it.


Let me know please...thanks..

h
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  #288  
Old 11-07-2012, 6:55 PM
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Could someone please edit the first post and explain what an OLL is? I have no idea what anyone is talking about.
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  #289  
Old 11-07-2012, 6:58 PM
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off list lower. It means a lower receiver that is not listed on the banned gun list.
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  #290  
Old 11-07-2012, 7:46 PM
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Could someone please edit the first post and explain what an OLL is? I have no idea what anyone is talking about.
Please see Harrot v. King County. Google is your friend.

There's also the CGF Wiki at the top of this and every forum page. It's right next to the "Donate to the Calguns Foundation" button.
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  #291  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by baddos View Post
off list lower. It means a lower receiver that is not listed on the banned gun list.
Thank you. This should be listed on the first page for other newbies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
Please see Harrot v. King County. Google is your friend.

There's also the CGF Wiki at the top of this and every forum page. It's right next to the "Donate to the Calguns Foundation" button.
Again, not having any idea what an OLL is, this information doesn't help. A Google search for "OLL" turns up a lot of different meanings.

I did find the flowchart, however, so now that I know the acronym, I know what the "off list lower" means.
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  #292  
Old 11-15-2012, 9:58 PM
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So touching on the topic.. Just got pulled over tonite. Cop pulled the whole swing into a parking lot and swing back out to get behind you trick. Lit me up a block down the road...

I was not asked if any weapons were in the vehicle, was asked had I been drinking, are you on parole or probation.
Took the DL went back to his patrol car, came back and told me to make sure all my light bulbs work...
Have a 91 chevy PU truck that I just found out has two bulbs for the tail lights, one upper one lower .. upper passenger side was burnt out..

If traveling with firearms, Do a good vehicle inspection, lights blinkers yadda yadda.. Your light bulbs burn out. talk about bad luck..
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  #293  
Old 11-24-2012, 5:32 PM
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I recently converted from a MM grip to a bullet button set up on my OLL (just to try it out). My question is in regards to mag swap outs. When swapping out your 10 round mag (utilizing a tool to do so), there is a period of time when there is no mag in the weapon (That has all those "evil features"). Is there a caveat in the interpretation of the law that allows this? Or should I be opening the rifle up and loading the mag by hand with it secured in the mag well?

I have been searching the site, but missed anything that covered this scenario. Thanks.
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  #294  
Old 11-24-2012, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bbc1969 View Post
I recently converted from a MM grip to a bullet button set up on my OLL (just to try it out). My question is in regards to mag swap outs. When swapping out your 10 round mag (utilizing a tool to do so), there is a period of time when there is no mag in the weapon (That has all those "evil features"). Is there a caveat in the interpretation of the law that allows this? Or should I be opening the rifle up and loading the mag by hand with it secured in the mag well?

I have been searching the site, but missed anything that covered this scenario. Thanks.
Good question. I have wondered the same thing myself.
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  #295  
Old 12-31-2012, 8:23 PM
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Drop the magazines and load them as they were intended to be loaded.
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  #296  
Old 12-31-2012, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bbc1969 View Post
I recently converted from a MM grip to a bullet button set up on my OLL (just to try it out). My question is in regards to mag swap outs. When swapping out your 10 round mag (utilizing a tool to do so), there is a period of time when there is no mag in the weapon (That has all those "evil features"). Is there a caveat in the interpretation of the law that allows this? Or should I be opening the rifle up and loading the mag by hand with it secured in the mag well?

I have been searching the site, but missed anything that covered this scenario. Thanks.
See the second page of the PDF (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) in the original post where PC 12276.1(a) and CCR 11 § 5469 (a) are quoted. The bullet button on your rifle means that it is a "fixed magazine" rifle per CCR 11 § 5469 (a). As a fixed magazine rifle, as long as an attached magazine can hold only 10 rounds or less, it is good to go. When there is no magazine attached, it still is not an assault weapon because, in its current state, it cannot hold more than 1 bullet at a time in the chamber so is a fixed magazine rifle still.
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  #297  
Old 12-31-2012, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbc1969 View Post
I recently converted from a MM grip to a bullet button set up on my OLL (just to try it out). My question is in regards to mag swap outs. When swapping out your 10 round mag (utilizing a tool to do so), there is a period of time when there is no mag in the weapon (That has all those "evil features"). Is there a caveat in the interpretation of the law that allows this? Or should I be opening the rifle up and loading the mag by hand with it secured in the mag well?

I have been searching the site, but missed anything that covered this scenario. Thanks.
See the second page of the PDF (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) in the original post where PC 12276.1(a) and CCR 11 § 5469 (a) are quoted. The bullet button on your rifle means that it is a "fixed magazine" rifle per CCR 11 § 5469 (a). As a fixed magazine rifle, as long as an attached magazine can hold only 10 rounds or less, it is good to go. When there is no magazine attached, it still is not an assault weapon because, in its current state, it cannot hold more than 1 bullet at a time in the chamber so is a fixed magazine rifle still.
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  #298  
Old 01-13-2013, 7:07 PM
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"Do not talk to the Police" ??? Forgive me but that is the stupidest advice I have ever heard. If you are being questioned about your OLL then answer the questions in a clear and concise manner with the knowledge you have. An OLL is not illegal to have, you have nothing to fear. Sounds like someone is trying to get away with something shady. Know the laws that allow you to own and transport an OLL so you don't piss all over yourself if asked.
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  #299  
Old 01-13-2013, 7:34 PM
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...

Last edited by Kodemonkey; 01-13-2013 at 8:04 PM..
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  #300  
Old 01-13-2013, 7:58 PM
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GOOD THREAD. I'll tell you a true story. Guy gets a lower and wants it to look cool. That means collapsible stock. Oh and it had to have a shiny chrome bolt. Now for the upper. Hmm the standard 20" barrel is too plain. The 16" is nice... ooh look, a 10.5"! Awesome!! I guess I better get the 6" flash hider to stay legal I suppose... let me call the gun shop in AZ..."Hello? I wanna order a 10.5" barrel, do I need to buy the 6" flash hider? Oh you will sell me the standard birdcage flash hider? Yay! Ship it to me in CA." Wow I can't wait to have a cool gun!

And he gets the parts.

And his newly home built SBR is indeed way cool looking.

And the cops see it at a shooting range.

And he loses it.

And all his other guns.

Forever.

THE END.

Don't trust what gun stores will sell you, they do not care about the law and are not responsible for keeping you within the law. They sell stuff is all. If you do not know the law, do not guess. And since this is CA, if it is cool you better double check its legality.
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  #301  
Old 01-19-2013, 5:49 AM
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? WOW
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  #302  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:40 AM
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So it says in the chart that active duty military can get a permit for their rifles. As a Marine this kinda interests me. I have two AR's (a .223 and a soon to be .257Roberts). I have several bolt guns with either a detatchable mag (Savage Axis), or thumbhole stocks (Mausers and an H&R Ultra). Then you get into a 10/22, a Savage .22 and a couple other little odds and ends.

There is a good possibility that I will be stationed there at some point and will NOT leave my weapons behind or sell them off. So how to keep them legal? How long will the process take? Can I start it before I get there with my orders? Any ideas here?

I feel sorry for all you guys. At the same time, I am happy to see citizens enjoying their 2A right despite the restrictions they face.

I have a memory of being a young Marine in CA (29 Palms) for school for over a year. An LEO caught me out after a successful coyote hunt with my old NEF Survivor. It was a break action single shot, but had a pistol grip. He told me my ID was all that kept him from hauling me in. I was later told he could have regardless, and another time that no he couldn't have period. I never could figure CA out and went to my .243 Mauser to avoid the problem.
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  #303  
Old 02-03-2013, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gdcpony View Post
So it says in the chart that active duty military can get a permit for their rifles. As a Marine this kinda interests me. I have two AR's (a .223 and a soon to be .257Roberts). I have several bolt guns with either a detatchable mag (Savage Axis), or thumbhole stocks (Mausers and an H&R Ultra). Then you get into a 10/22, a Savage .22 and a couple other little odds and ends.

There is a good possibility that I will be stationed there at some point and will NOT leave my weapons behind or sell them off. So how to keep them legal? How long will the process take? Can I start it before I get there with my orders? Any ideas here?

I feel sorry for all you guys. At the same time, I am happy to see citizens enjoying their 2A right despite the restrictions they face.

I have a memory of being a young Marine in CA (29 Palms) for school for over a year. An LEO caught me out after a successful coyote hunt with my old NEF Survivor. It was a break action single shot, but had a pistol grip. He told me my ID was all that kept him from hauling me in. I was later told he could have regardless, and another time that no he couldn't have period. I never could figure CA out and went to my .243 Mauser to avoid the problem.
Non-semi-auto guns can have pistol grips and all kinds of other "evil" features. The LEO who talked to you about "hauling you in" was either full of poop, or, had you on some other violation. An NEF Survivor is not an "assault weapon" in California.

Regarding a military permit for an "Assault Weapon" in California, IIRC, you'll need permission from your Base Commander. Start a thread on it and you'll get a pretty quick answer.
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  #304  
Old 02-12-2013, 9:43 PM
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I recently purchased a LMT - CQB 16... I've been trying to read all of the post, I didn't see Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) on the list or the OLL book that has been updated to '09 it seems.

If the LMT doesn't appear on the list, nor those it appear on the list on the DOJ website, does that mean... I have nothing to worry when I take it out on a date to the rage? The last thing I want is to get in trouble or have it taken away.

The one thing I haven't seen anyone ask is... What if I was gifted a high capacity mag that was grandfathered in? Would that be a big NO NO?!
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  #305  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:43 AM
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Excellent advice and to your point of DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, I suggest if you (people reading this thread) haven't watched this video on YouTube (Don't Talk to Police), take 45 minutes out of your life and watch it. NOW!
Sorry for late replay/question. Just found this thread.

With police it is understood, it was very valuable link which brought me to see more of this kind. However, question is, should i do same with rangers/DFG wardens?

I ask this question since last yer we were stopped on public road in Red Bluff area. He was very nice, he asked if he could see ID, if he could inspect the car. So we ended up loosing 2 hours and a pair of pants (he took them to make "Investigation" because he thought there was a blood stain), and all our belongings were trashed. Nothing was documented, no citation was issued and when i called the DFG no records were left.
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  #306  
Old 03-16-2013, 9:01 PM
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Very helpful thread. Question- the OP spoke of not unlocking your case for LE. Would it require a hard case to prevent them from opening the case. I have a soft tactical style case with no real way to lock it. I'm thinking of adding some type of cable that I could lock. Any thoughts?
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  #307  
Old 03-24-2013, 6:20 PM
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Default OLL

New guy here. New shooter as well. Can you briefly explain what OLL is?

Thanks!

florida
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  #308  
Old 03-24-2013, 6:30 PM
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Nevermind...got it. I'm assuming my DDMV4 is legal in all respects then...
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  #309  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:59 AM
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I second the request for some info on staying out of trouble with an 80%er. Thanks!
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  #310  
Old 04-25-2013, 9:54 PM
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  #311  
Old 05-11-2013, 2:34 PM
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I just purchased a OLL assembly, and I have a concern with how it relates to the flowchart. It does NOT have a bullet button preinstalled, but it does have a collapsible stock and pistol grip. I'm assuming before I take possession, the shop will 1) install a bullet button for me, or 2) remove the stock and pistol grip. Or does the flowchart not apply until I attach an upper receiver?

edit: after some more more reading, it's not a centerfire rifle at this point, so it's fine.

Last edited by fresnoguy; 05-11-2013 at 2:59 PM..
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  #312  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30rdMag View Post
Here is my 2 cents.
I live in Arizona and visit California alot. I was taking my firearms with me back and forth.
I made sure I have a OLL, I also make sure my car is up to date, bone stock looking in every way. I do need to get a BB installed, But I think its just better to leave it in AZ.

Yes Dont speed, Dont stand out in a crowd. Drive a stock and not a flashy looking car. They dont even look at mine, Its not all about speeding, In california if the car looks non-oem in anyway, they will stop you, Missing front lic plate? window tint? fart can exhaust? Stickers? Dont carry anything, You will get pulled over when you drive past that police officer when he is trolling, I feel that even a NRA sticker in the back window of your car or truck in california is asking for it.

I also would and learned this in law class was to keep your windows up if they ask you to get out of the car. This keeps them one more step away. Window down? They can stick their heads in and look around. Windows up? You can look thru the windows, But you cant open the door to look around.

If they ask to look, decline based on safety for you and the officer being stopped on the side of the roadway. You feel that your concerned that you may get hit or rearended by a drunk driver, Even more so if the officer has you stopped at night and has all his deck lights on. Its a proven fishing lure for drunks.

DO NOT BE A RUDE AHOLE, be nice and polite when stopped, keep your hands on the wheel till he asks you to get your papers then tell him where they are at, once he or she nods, get them for them. he will feel safer around you. Keep your papers in an area thats easy to quick to get to.
Dont open your glove box ad have a box of rounds in there.

Also, Everyone has a cell phone. Get a visor clip for it. When you are stopped, call your phone number. This will record the whole stop onto your cell phones messaging system. That can be used in court, or be a lawyer to get you out of jail.

I have used a officers own duty belt voice recorder against him in court, for a bad traffic stop years ago. No days just use your phones. Make sure to use your name and his name "officer - Jones" when speaking to them.
You will be amazed, Keep it in the car if your asked to get out. You will recorcd everything that happens inside your car. If they find it and shut it off, you will still have it recorded on your voice mail. They cant delete it.


Also if you are ever arrested, NEVER speak in the back of a patrol car, They are listening and recording.

What works for everything and you? Out of sight is out of mind in california.
Everything is about money and your state needs it bad..... Its only going to get worse. I dont know any reason why anyone would want to live there anymore. Its a great state land wise, But the government is just out of control.
How can I dial my own cell number and leave voice mail? I don't think it's possible.
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  #313  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mikkyc View Post
How can I dial my own cell number and leave voice mail? I don't think it's possible.
Dial your own number on your cell phone and see if it works.

Here let's try mine...

It just goes to my voice mail box to check it, darn, and I don't have an option to leave a new voice mail message. Oh well.
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Last edited by POLICESTATE; 05-21-2013 at 11:33 AM..
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  #314  
Old 05-22-2013, 8:36 PM
crosseyedshooter crosseyedshooter is offline
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Can somebody help explain the gist of Harott vs. County of Kings in terms of EXACTLY what constitutes being on the banned list? I looked over the flowchart and everything is pretty clear EXCEPT the "list of series" part that allows OLLs.

For example, if the list has "Ordnance, Inc.: AR-15", but the receiver is stamped "Ordnance, Inc.: AR-15A2" is it considered off-list?

Or, going the other way, if the list has "Eagle Arms: EA-15 A2 H-BAR", but the receiver is stamped "Eagle Arms: EA-15" is it considered off-list?
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Old 05-27-2013, 8:04 AM
ntigner ntigner is offline
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great post. the best point is to never make yourself a target for law enforcement by being an idiot and givin them probable cause to investigate your vehicle or your person or your property.

Last edited by ntigner; 05-27-2013 at 8:07 AM.. Reason: wrong pic
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  #316  
Old 05-28-2013, 6:46 AM
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DUKE NUKEM DUKE NUKEM is offline
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What's OLL. I did a goggle search and came up with nothing.

Last edited by DUKE NUKEM; 05-29-2013 at 12:07 AM..
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  #317  
Old 05-28-2013, 6:58 AM
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Try www.google.com instead.

Search for "off list lower"
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  #318  
Old 06-15-2013, 11:12 AM
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So I just made my first firearms purchase yesterday! woo. I got the Core15 m4 from Turners and it's CA compliant. Bullet button, 10 round mag.

My question is, If I were to have it locked in the case in my trunk and I was pulled over and the officer asked if I had any firearms in the vehicle I would obviously have to say yes, correct?

And if that were the case, how would I respond to his next question asking to see it and inspect it to make sure it was being transported legally...mainly unloaded?

I don't see how you could legally not consent to a search in that case? I'm unclear as to whether they have the right to inspect the firearm without consent. I assume so, and I don't know so my assumption could be completely wrong.

Also on another note, I drive a 92 Camaro so the trunk is not like a traditional trunk. It's more like a hatchback. You could see in through the back window that there is a rifle case back there. It wouldn't be impossible if there was a back passenger to be able to reach the case, but what if I have no passengers? No way I could reach back there as the driver. What's the legality in this type of situation...and what if I had back passengers(don't plan to, but good to know). Just want to know what to do and what I should be doing to best avoid any trouble.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antiseen View Post

Also on another note, I drive a 92 Camaro so the trunk is not like a traditional trunk. It's more like a hatchback. You could see in through the back window that there is a rifle case back there. It wouldn't be impossible if there was a back passenger to be able to reach the case, but what if I have no passengers? No way I could reach back there as the driver. What's the legality in this type of situation...and what if I had back passengers(don't plan to, but good to know). Just want to know what to do and what I should be doing to best avoid any trouble.
Technically your Camaro doesn't have a trunk. In that case your weapons need to be carried in a locked case. Throw a jacket or something over the case so it cannot been seen through the window. Helps deter theft and prying eyes.
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting

Other than that, drive respectably and make sure your car is fit to be legally driven on the highways.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOGLEG View Post
Technically your Camaro doesn't have a trunk. In that case your weapons need to be carried in a locked case. Throw a jacket or something over the case so it cannot been seen through the window. Helps deter theft and prying eyes.
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting

Other than that, drive respectably and make sure your car is fit to be legally driven on the highways.
Good to know. I figured it was something like that and I plan to keep it locked up. Thanks for the info!
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