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  #121  
Old 01-04-2010, 7:26 PM
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Does anyone make a 10/30 yet that will work in a stock Saiga 7.62? I hear the Surefire mags are the best to use but can not find any already blocked to 10 rounds. I have found someone who will block them for me if I find them somewhere else, get them shipped to Ca, then send them into him, but I'd rather just buy finished ca legal 10/30 Surefires...
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  #122  
Old 01-06-2010, 7:52 PM
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What you gonna do when they break and need repairs? Best to know you gear and handle problems. May not be many to assist in difficult time.
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  #123  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:53 PM
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Thanks for the tutorial! Worked well for me =] Except I could barely squeeze in that 10th round... Oh well, better safe than sorry right?
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  #124  
Old 04-27-2010, 2:55 PM
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What if you have a 6.8, .223, 50 Beowolf etc.. etc.. uppers?

If your home is ever raided or your at the range with all your AR's. What can you do, say or show to assure LE's that some particular magazine(s) are dedicated for a different caliber, despite it fitting in the same lower? Because your 7 rounder Beowolf magazine can accommodate 10+ .223.

What measurements should I, (selfish me) I mean we Californians take? I've looked every where and haven't found any answer with any legal specs by the ATF/DOJ whatever whatever. Or perhaps my googling skills are that of a 5year old.
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  #125  
Old 04-27-2010, 3:28 PM
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Then have your mags engraved. I think it was Alexander Arms selling .50 Beowulf mags that were marked "10rd .50 Beowulf Magazine".
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  #126  
Old 04-27-2010, 3:57 PM
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really??? Is that all it takes just engraving? Just goes to show how foolish some laws really are.

OK.. Thanks time to pull out the dremel.
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  #127  
Old 04-27-2010, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildhawk66 View Post
Great tutorial!

For those who like the rivet idea but would like some additional permanence, you can always pick up a couple of extra followers (I recommend Magpul) and epoxy/pin on a limiter like this one (my thanks to aloharoller for coming up with the idea):


This is a very cheap mod and once the limiter length is identified you can create a bunch of these quickly.

Once the modified follower is installed in the mag and a rivet placed, I don't see how anyone can argue that the mag has not been permanently modified.

Not only would tools be required to remove the rivet, one of the magazine parts must also be replaced to restore the mag to a 20 rounder. Using both limiting methods also creates some insurance against that 11th round somehow being forced into the mag if an inspection ever occurred.
So is the general concensus that even though you put a "permanent" limiter on the follower, you still need to rivet the mag?
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  #128  
Old 04-27-2010, 7:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpach View Post
So is the general concensus that even though you put a "permanent" limiter on the follower, you still need to rivet the mag?
To my mind, the modified follower in that picture means you can't convert it back to 10+ rounds without disassembling the mag. Disassembly turns it from a magazine into a collection of parts, thus "destroying" the magazine. So in that sense it's as permanent as epoxying the floorplate.
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  #129  
Old 04-27-2010, 7:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega13device View Post
To my mind, the modified follower in that picture means you can't convert it back to 10+ rounds without disassembling the mag. Disassembly turns it from a magazine into a collection of parts, thus "destroying" the magazine. So in that sense it's as permanent as epoxying the floorplate.
Thanks brotha. That was my thinking too but you can never be too sure.
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I have to try that method of attaching the front of a sling to the gun via pubic hair.
Quote:
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Best part of buying that stock is it comes with its own complimentary jar of anal lube! There were several flavors to choose from, regular, hot cinnamon, or bacon. Im a man of danger so I chose Hot cinnamon to use with my bump fire buttstock.
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  #130  
Old 04-27-2010, 7:50 PM
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Thanks brotha. That was my thinking too but you can never be too sure.
No problem. And just so we're clear it's just my thinking too, I'm not giving legal advice!
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  #131  
Old 04-27-2010, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Omega13device View Post
No problem. And just so we're clear it's just my thinking too, I'm not giving legal advice!
Of course! Neither am I ! Looks like Ill be needing some new magpul followers to play with.
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I have to try that method of attaching the front of a sling to the gun via pubic hair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomb_on_bus View Post
Best part of buying that stock is it comes with its own complimentary jar of anal lube! There were several flavors to choose from, regular, hot cinnamon, or bacon. Im a man of danger so I chose Hot cinnamon to use with my bump fire buttstock.
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  #132  
Old 05-01-2010, 4:13 PM
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I have a question: Would Gorilla Glue be considered permanent on the same terms as epoxy?
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  #133  
Old 06-06-2010, 7:09 PM
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I don't have anything to add, just did not want this thread to die.
Good thread, great discussion.
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  #134  
Old 06-17-2010, 10:25 AM
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I have read this entire thread, and I have a question:

Has ANYONE from the DOJ looked and responded? Specifically the question is "What defines 'easily'?"

I can easily modify any change back, because I have tools and know how to use them.

Rivets should be enough to comply with the spirit of the law. If you need tools to change it back, then it 'seems' this cannot be defined as 'easily.'
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  #135  
Old 07-02-2010, 7:32 AM
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Hello,
Where can I buy the mag rebuild kit for AR 15? Any info is appreciated...
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  #136  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:55 AM
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Hello, where did you buy those mag rebuild kits? how much? Is it legal if I rivet the STOP or limiter to the floor plate? Any suggestion is appreciated... Thanks
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  #137  
Old 07-03-2010, 6:40 PM
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Where did you buy those rebuild kit mags? how much did it cost you? Please email me @enewo123@sbcglobal.net... Thanks
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  #138  
Old 07-07-2010, 6:59 PM
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Any reason why this won't work on pistol mags?
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  #139  
Old 09-11-2011, 1:07 PM
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For those using tapco 30's and need to rivet them. Line up the follower flush with the top rib, then mark the follower on the back. Drill and rivet. I used 3/16" x 1/8" rivet. Will save you some measuring.
Note the follower in the pic is not a tapco one, just there to show you how to line it up on the rib and the bottom for the rivet.
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  #140  
Old 04-14-2012, 4:48 PM
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nice !!!
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  #141  
Old 04-14-2012, 5:16 PM
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My problem with modifying the follower only would be that if you own a follower that could replace the modified one and subsequently return the magazine to a high capacity magazine without the use of any tools, you'd be in hot water. The same way that being in possession of full auto parts and the firearm they "could" work in can get you in trouble. With the follower mod, you could pop off the floor plate, install an unmodified follower and be in high cap hot water in under a minute with no tools. I personally would not go this route without a permanently attached floor plate.
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  #142  
Old 04-14-2012, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djleisure View Post
Nice tutorial - thanks for posting! ...and I see that you too, enjoy a glass of wine while working on your EBR stuff - cheers!
Oh no, winos with guns! Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I guess AK guys are chips and beer and AR guys are wine and cheese oriented.
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  #143  
Old 11-05-2012, 6:53 AM
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How would one do this with USGI 20rd mags and using Ranger plates?

I'm thinking either the rivet way or sacrificing a follower and expoxying a piece of wood. Tricky part is measuring for roughy 10.5 rounds so the mag can be inserted with a closed bolt.
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  #144  
Old 01-23-2013, 8:24 PM
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This might seem like a stupid question, and I could have missed something, but the rivet doesn't interfere at all with the spring?
It doesn't catch or anything? 'Cause if not, this is perfect.
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  #145  
Old 01-24-2013, 6:15 AM
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No it doesn't. Couple thousand rounds through each mag, not one problem.
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  #146  
Old 01-27-2013, 9:19 AM
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So concerning spring clearance...

Use nominal rivets??
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  #147  
Old 02-03-2013, 3:29 PM
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Why are the pics expired?
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  #148  
Old 03-25-2013, 5:59 PM
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Potentially dumb question here: is it illegal to posses a lard capacity mag in Ca. if it stays in my house and only goes with me out of state? Any knowledge here is appreciated.

Thanks,
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  #149  
Old 03-25-2013, 9:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida View Post
Potentially dumb question here: is it illegal to posses a lard capacity mag in Ca. if it stays in my house and only goes with me out of state? Any knowledge here is appreciated.

Thanks,
If you did not own it in CA before 2000, then yes, it is not a legal magazine in completed form, because you either assembled it (manufactured) from parts or you brought it into the state (imported).

Disassemble it into a pile of parts, however, and all you have is a pile of parts. Ain't nothing wrong with a pile of parts. Once you cross that state line, your options are no longer dictated by CA law... just be sure to convert it back to a pile of parts before returning.

All that said: I very well may not be stating things exactly correctly (although the overall point is definitely correct). Read here for as authoritative answer as it's possible to have:

Magazines: all the answers you need

See points 2 and 3 in particular.

Last edited by kkp; 03-25-2013 at 9:42 PM..
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  #150  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:07 PM
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woo great information..i have seen this first time in my whole life great thread thanks for sharing.......
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  #151  
Old 05-31-2013, 12:18 AM
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Thanks for the information. This is exactly what I was looking for
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  #152  
Old 07-05-2013, 9:26 AM
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great info
thanks
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  #153  
Old 07-08-2013, 8:46 PM
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Dont feel like reading everything so i dont know if it has been stated, but i was in Ammo Bro's today in ontario and seen some of their AR's had the 10/30 mags with a rivet in them, so as far as legal issues must not be too risky if a shop is doing it right?
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  #154  
Old 09-30-2013, 5:04 AM
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Excellent Bobby, great job!
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  #155  
Old 10-06-2013, 1:00 AM
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I gotta try this out. I have 30 rounders that just look better than the lil tens lol
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  #156  
Old 11-09-2013, 3:59 PM
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Out of curiosity, what size rivets are people using for PMags?

Would 3/16 x 1/4 work, or should it be larger (or longer)?
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  #157  
Old 12-26-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionMTMan View Post
As for you guys asking why a 10/30 instead of a 10 rounder. The biggest reason beside aesthetics is the ease of pulling a magazine out of your tac vest. I want you to insert your little 10 round magazines all the way into your tac vest and tell me how much slower it is to pull one out quickly and put it in your AR. I am not from California but I have done a lot of testing and research into 10/30 magazines. I exclusively sell magazines with the rivet method and epoxy over the rivet. If it is any conciliation, I supply these same magazines to many different gun shops in California. So if I am willing to put my butt on the line and all of these other gun shops are willing to do the same, you should be good. I am not telling you to be a sheep and follow everyone else though. I hope you guys keep researching this and finding out new information so you feel good with the way you are converting your magazines.
I was studying this thread for some info on magazine conversions and I noticed a lot of discussion about extra steps to take to ensue the rivet is enough to make a 10/30.

First, I always start with the Mag Block pieces, and I use a rivet. The thing is that you can cover the rivet with epoxy, but epoxy is easier to remove than the rivet so I don't see the point.

Second, I can use multiple ways of limiting the mag to 10, but in the end short of cutting the magazine body or the spring, anyone who has a Dremel and a few bits can defeat most of the blocks I saw in this thread.

So doesn't it become a matter of intent? Because it is possible to make a 20 round magazine from two 10s if someone with tools wanted to badly enough.

It just gets ridiculous. I could put in backup rivets, epoxy them in, glue something to the follower, or even tack weld the base plate in place. But someone with some tools could overcome almost anything.

So where does intent come it? Beside isn't it the bad guys who don't try to conform to the law? And would they care enough to go to the trouble of fixing their magazines to be legal?

I'll tell you why I have used 10/30 round conversions in the past and now use only 10 round magazines. In the past the 10 round magazines I was able to buy were terrible and malfunctioned frequently. So I converted a few 20s and 30s to 10 round, because they functioned better. In the last year I found that the new Magpul 10s are GTG, so I mostly use those. Still curious about 10/30s because they are easier to handle though.

So what about conversions relative to how much effort to try to make them permanent?
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  #158  
Old 12-26-2013, 10:21 AM
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My experience.

My wife bought a new XDm with 13 round magazines from a local gun shop. They magazines of course aren't legal in Ca. The gun shop used a rivet and limited them to 9 rounds just like the Ca legal variant of the this pistol. I asked them about the rivet and would we have any problems with it. They assured me that the rivet alone is all that is needed to limit the capacity for my wife's new pistol mags and is 100% legal. They've been doing this for quite a long time and they sell a lot to law enforcement as well.

I hope this helps although I'm sure it's still debatable to some.
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  #159  
Old 12-26-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigART71 View Post
My experience.

My wife bought a new XDm with 13 round magazines from a local gun shop. They magazines of course aren't legal in Ca. The gun shop used a rivet and limited them to 9 rounds just like the Ca legal variant of the this pistol. I asked them about the rivet and would we have any problems with it. They assured me that the rivet alone is all that is needed to limit the capacity for my wife's new pistol mags and is 100% legal. They've been doing this for quite a long time and they sell a lot to law enforcement as well.

I hope this helps although I'm sure it's still debatable to some.
Too bad they didn't allow you ten, which (I believe) is what the law allows.

You can also modify those mags using a glued in block and they work nicely that way as well.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigART71 View Post
My experience.

My wife bought a new XDm with 13 round magazines from a local gun shop. They magazines of course aren't legal in Ca. The gun shop used a rivet and limited them to 9 rounds just like the Ca legal variant of the this pistol. I asked them about the rivet and would we have any problems with it. They assured me that the rivet alone is all that is needed to limit the capacity for my wife's new pistol mags and is 100% legal. They've been doing this for quite a long time and they sell a lot to law enforcement as well.

I hope this helps although I'm sure it's still debatable to some.
Thanks, that is actually very helpful. I always worry about these things and I just get frustrated with the vagueness of the law and CAs inconsistent interpretation of it. At least it seems that way to me.
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