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  #201  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49erlife View Post
No. The situation was not reported till almost 2 weeks after being asked to leave the range. Right after this post was seen.
I originally thought they were just a indoor shooting range with fishing equipment. Didn't know they were an FFL dealer too. My apologies.

I see it as his way of retaliating? Wouldn't that be some sort of violation by him sending your personal info to DOJ without your consent or knowledge?

Last edited by NiMiK; 10-16-2012 at 11:36 AM..
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  #202  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazzB7 View Post
You are not a regulatory agency, you are not a law enforcement agency. You are a vendor. You're a couple steps above a 7/11. You have one responsibility regarding firearms regulations. Make sure YOU are obeying the laws as they are written. This would be like my plumber telling me I couldn't have beige paint in my living room.
This! It is not you or the ROs responsibility to uphold the law with shooters and be sending information to the DOJ you are not a LEO... Your job is to ensure a safe legal place to shoot and uphold your range rules.. The fact of high caps or firearms being used unless creating a threat is not your job.. Your worse than the old fu**s at the range who constantly cry about my "illegal" mags and count every shot I shoot at my local range... There are legal ways of obtaining these things and mind your own FU**ng business because you are not effected!

I nightly suggest you and all of your workers take several training courses on how to run a shop from burro and I quote from their site...

Quote:
Do you allow the use of military-style firearms (AR-15s, MAK-90s, SKSs)?
Yes. However, keep in mind that it is your responsibility to know ALL of the laws pertaining to you and the firearms you own.

Can I use my hi-capacity magazines?
Yes. However, keep in mind that it is your responsibility to know ALL of the laws as they pertain to the use and ownership of hi-capacity magazines.


Again your job is not to enforce and uphold the law... It is your job to ensure safety at the range... So stop being so controlled by the gov and as stated above perfectly describes being scared of your own shadow... If your going to be in this business it is your job to know the laws in and out for your sales... But obviously you guys don't know jack about that either...


Wow I missed a lot skip in over this thread.. Glad I was refered back.. You are the reason the gun community is as fu**ed up as it is...
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  #203  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsfishing View Post
To the person whom stated there were the range master whom kicked Abraham off of the range, we have no idea whom you are.
It hurt my head to read this sentence. Using words you don't understand in an effort to make yourself sound smart will almost always backfire. You used "whom" three times and used it correctly zero times. Nice work. Maybe the CA gun laws, judging from your obvious complete lack of knowledge on them, isn't the only area where some reading and some research would be of benefit. To whom? To you, that's who.
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  #204  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gesundheit View Post
What was the need for sending Abraham's personal information to DOJ?
Because he posted and made a big deal about this on CG

Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
I posted earlier, the shop owner was coming off rude. He needed to watch it. By the looks of the Yelp. He business will fail soon. 84 reviews, all look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 49erlife View Post
No. The situation was not reported till almost 2 weeks after being asked to leave the range. Right after this post was seen.
My point. He attacked you for posting.
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Last edited by Smoke&Rattler; 10-16-2012 at 11:52 AM..
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  #205  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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LOL he is not even a high school graduate. I'd hire someone with a sign board that says the FUD Store
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  #206  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:53 AM
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Dang,

After reading all the posts to this thread, I will not patronize Guns and Fishing again.

Center Mass is just a few more miles away. I hope I win the lottery so I can afford to open up a gunstore and a shooting range. With all modesty, I know I can do a better job.
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  #207  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwhite View Post
LOL he is not even a high school graduate. I'd hire someone with a sign board that says the FUD Store
Internet is funny like that. All the shop owners background will come to light. If his yard is "dirty" I am sure and someone will find the dirt and post it.
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Brown 3 million. His opponent 2.1 million. Gun owners 8 million. Shouldn't his opponent have received 8 million and we have a pro gun governor??

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  #208  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:56 AM
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Don't even sweat about it. He'll get arrested for false information.
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  #209  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:01 PM
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Holy Chit!......Someone at Yelp is going to get rich scrubbing those reviews from that page!
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  #210  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Beelzy View Post
Holy Chit!......Someone at Yelp is going to get rich scrubbing those reviews from that page!
Can that really happen? If so, I will never trust yelp.
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  #211  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:11 PM
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3 stars, 85 reviews. Days young.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/guns-fishing...tuff-vacaville

Center Mass is liking this I bet! lol
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Brown 3 million. His opponent 2.1 million. Gun owners 8 million. Shouldn't his opponent have received 8 million and we have a pro gun governor??

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  #212  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:37 PM
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I've popped in there before to have a look. I'm a Vacaville native and my parents still live there, but we're Centermass customers (we shoot in VV for the free grandparent babysitting). After reading this, I'm glad we've never spent a dime at GFOS. I'll make sure I let other Vacavillians know as well.
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  #213  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:39 PM
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What the hell is this? Dude is now turning me in for something? I don't know what I did wrong, is it illegal to share info?

Kevin

12:35 PM (0 minutes ago)

to me
told you man...let me know whom you work for....and I will gladly consider listening to you....if not...stop hiding behind emails.

OH...spoke again to DOJ.....and forwarded your email as well as posts made on the forum....MANY MANY THINGS WRONG....and DOJ backs the position that was stated....even got an understandable explanation as to the NO COMMENT from attorney generals office....makes perfect sense....but if you wanna talk,,,,my number is 707-451-1199.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
.223, .25acp, 25-20win, 9mm, 38spl/.357, 10mm .308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 45acp, .475 Wildey mag
On 2 Hornady LnL AP & Dillon Super 1050
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  #214  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:39 PM
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What the hell is this? Dude is now turning me in for something? I don't know what I did wrong, is it illegal to share info? He sent me the following below.

Kevin
12:35 PM (0 minutes ago)
to me
told you man...let me know whom you work for....and I will gladly consider listening to you....if not...stop hiding behind emails.

OH...spoke again to DOJ.....and forwarded your email as well as posts made on the forum....MANY MANY THINGS WRONG....and DOJ backs the position that was stated....even got an understandable explanation as to the NO COMMENT from attorney generals office....makes perfect sense....but if you wanna talk,,,,my number is 707-451-1199.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
.223, .25acp, 25-20win, 9mm, 38spl/.357, 10mm .308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 45acp, .475 Wildey mag
On 2 Hornady LnL AP & Dillon Super 1050

Last edited by EL_NinO619; 10-16-2012 at 12:49 PM..
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  #215  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:42 PM
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Are you posting private texts? Because your formatting makes the posts confusing.
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  #216  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:42 PM
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^class act there^

He uses the DOJ like a weapon.

I doubt anything you said in any email I read or any post on here is anything you have to worry about.

You should refer the guy here to this thread and to his Yelp page.
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  #217  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by winnre View Post
Are you posting private texts? Because your formatting makes the posts confusing.
transcript
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
.223, .25acp, 25-20win, 9mm, 38spl/.357, 10mm .308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 45acp, .475 Wildey mag
On 2 Hornady LnL AP & Dillon Super 1050

Last edited by EL_NinO619; 10-16-2012 at 12:56 PM..
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  #218  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:45 PM
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TeeHee, this is classic crash and burn style, just unfortunate it's at the expense of someone innocent to the douche bag store owners personal issues. Hall monitor calling 2 weeks after the fact and reporting ... What?

JeremyS, I was thinking the same thing... Whom, whom, whom, lol.


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  #219  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:45 PM
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Well, it looks like they are digging in their heels. Called them and asked if I could shoot my Walther PPQ there. He asked if it is CA legal. I said yes, it was purchased legally as a SSE. He asked if it had a 10 round clip...yes, he said clip...and I indicated it did. He asked how it was configured when I purchased it...I said in a single shot form. He said then I would have to shoot it as a single shot pistol and that it's illegal for me to convert a firearm after I've taken possession.

While he was pleasant to speak to, he was fully aware of this post and kept asking if I was "referring to the post". Anyways, it's a shame really.

Hope he gets his answer from the DOJ soon. But that will probably be a non-answer as well.

Sad to see him lose business but oh well.
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  #220  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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Not to be rude, but if you actually believe that he contacted the DOJ to report your posts on a public forum, I have a bridge to sell you. He's trying to coax you into calling to do some damage control. Never call someone that you're having a dispute with.

Really, someone should contact the DOJ and report him, then contact the Federal Trade Commision and complain there as well for misuse or threatening to misuse your personal information.

http://ftc.gov/bcp/bcppip.shtm

Last edited by Press Check; 10-16-2012 at 1:19 PM..
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  #221  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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What does he mean CA legal? Does he mean it is on the roster? So no off-roster guns are allowed unless you are LEO? Please clarify.
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  #222  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:50 PM
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they are going to loose alot of business
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  #223  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:52 PM
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I didn't have a problem with the policies the business chose to have in place, that is their right.

However, based on those policies, and to a much larger extent, based on the behavior the staff/management of that business has exhibited here, I will never consider visiting their facility for any reason, be it firearms purchases, range time, or ever bring a class of students there for any sort of instruction.
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  #224  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc_load_letter View Post
Well, it looks like they are digging in their heels. Called them and asked if I could shoot my Walther PPQ there.
Of course, if you PPT that PPQ to me, I could go there and spend money at the range.

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  #225  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:57 PM
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TeeHee, this is classic crash and burn style, just unfortunate it's at the expense of someone innocent to the douche bag store owners personal issues. Hall monitor calling 2 weeks after the fact and reporting ... What?

JeremyS, I was thinking the same thing... Whom, whom, whom, lol.


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  #226  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:58 PM
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I'm embarrassed I even live in driving distance to this place. Idiots who have no clue of the actual law and then threaten their own customers out of ignorance and stupidity.

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  #227  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc_load_letter View Post
Called them and asked if I could shoot my Walther PPQ there. He asked if it is CA legal. I said yes, it was purchased legally as a SSE. He asked if it had a 10 round clip...yes, he said clip...and I indicated it did. He asked how it was configured when I purchased it...I said in a single shot form. He said then I would have to shoot it as a single shot pistol and that it's illegal for me to convert a firearm after I've taken possession.
The roster restricts what dealers can sell, not what the buyer does with the firearm after the sale. The people running this establishment are seriously confused about how the roster scheme works.

Do they check every handgun which enters their range for roster compliance?
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  #228  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsfishing View Post
First, I will be the first to admit, YES..WE TEND TO BE VERY CONSERVATIVE ON GUN REGS AND LAWS. We understand this is not popular with a few people, but when it comes to our FFL, we tend to be a little protective.


YES, I will agree and as I stated before, it is our policy to tend to be conservative at times when interpretting the constantly changing gun laws. There could very well be times when in FACT OUR POLICY MIGHT EXCEED ATCUAL GUN LAWS ...but when it comes to safety and the fact it is our licensing at risk...WE WILL ALWAYS BE CONSERVATIVE when setting range policies!

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Actually, that makes you very LIBERAL.
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  #229  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:18 PM
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I don't know just whom this Guns and Fishing guy thinks he is, but even a noob like me knows it's a magazine and not a clip. And whom was this fartknocker's English teacher?
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  #230  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsfishing View Post
However, to make sure we are not in error, we have forwarded this post with your information & firearm information to DOJ, and am awaiting their response. Once I get their written response, I will gladly post it here as well.
You, sir, are a world-class douche-nozzle. Please, report me to the DOJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 49erlife View Post
YA, THIS WHOLE POST JUST TURNED SERIOUSLY NOT FUNNY ANYMORE WHEN MY INFO & DOJ WERE MENTIONED IN THE SAME SENTENCE. BUT I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SPOKE WITH THE DOJ ON A SEPARATE OCCASION & WHEN I ASKED ABOUT CONVERTING A SINGLE SHOT MAGAZINE TO A 10 SHOT MAGAZINE THEY SAID, QUOTE, "THE DOJ REFUSES TO COMMENT ON THE MODIFICATION OF A SINGLE SHOT PISTOL. WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS IS LOCATED IN PENAL CODE 32110 & PENAL CODE 32100."

SO IN OTHER WORDS...... WE CANNOT SAY YOU CANNOT COVERT A SINGLE SHOT TO A 10 SHOT BECAUSE THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST IT. I AM A COMPLETE LAW ABIDING CITIZEN SO I MAKE 100% SURE THAT EVERYTHING I DO IS LINED UP WITH BEING LEGAL. I AM A SINGLE DAD OF 3 KIDS THAT NEED ME SO I WOULD NEVER DO SOMETHING TO JEOPARDIZE MY FREEDOM.
For future reference, a word of advice.

When you're involved in a dispute with someone, telephonic communicaton needs to stop immediately. To maintain records of what transpires during the dispute, all communition needs to be done via written correspondence. I.E., via email.

I would seriously urge you to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commision for misuse or threatening to misuse your personal information. His actions are clearly threatening and retaliatory of your public complaint.

http://ftc.gov/bcp/bcppip.shtm
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  #231  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:21 PM
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So does this shop take #1 spot for being the all time worse FFL to do business with in CA or Is there one that still holds #1?
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  #232  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:24 PM
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I won't even go into what I think of the "shop's" policies and the actions of their owner. It's already been said enough and I think pretty much everyone at CGN agrees with what has been said.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the following information, which appears to be completely wrong. If we are going to try and educate people we have to be sure we are providing the correct information. Two FUDs don't make a right..

I'm in the process of obtaining my FFL and have done much research, spoke with attorneys, etc. From my understanding the following needs to be corrected about the SSE process to be accurate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
to Kevin
(Me)The SSE requires some very specific rule-following to make it legal. When you look up an LCP, it's clearly NOT a single-shot firearm. California cares what the condition of the gun is at the time of sale. Therefore, that LCP must be legally made into something OTHER than a Ruger LCP. It takes an 07 FFL to legally do that.
Incorrect. 01 FFLs can do SSEs because they are using drop in replacement parts. This is NOT considered manufacturing. Only if the gun itself would require gun smithing would a manufacturing 07 FFL be needed.

Quote:
That FFL takes certain parts off, puts certain parts on, renders it into a single-shot pistol that is dimensionally compliant
Correct.

Quote:
and re-brands the Ruger into his/her own make, model, and serial number. When that is done, it's called "manufacturing" because a new gun has been created. An 01 FFL licensee is not authorized to manufacture new guns. An 07 FFL licensee is. Unless your favorite gun shop is also an 07 FFL, they may not convert guns into a new gun and sell it as an SSE gun.
Totally incorrect. At no point is anyone re-branding the firearms with their own make model and serial number..

I am looking at a completed DROS right now for a SSE off-roster handgun. Make, model and serial number are all original. The only things on the DROS different from a standard DROS are:

Transaction Type: Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/Exempt
Type: Single Shot
Barrel Length: 10.5 IN

Everything else is the same. There is no rebranding done.

Quote:
That new gun can't be played around with and have lots of parts swapped out until after customer has signed the 4473 and the 07 FFL has logged it out of his/her bound book and therefore no longer has it in inventory.
Correct, except it does not have to be an 07 FFL.

As many here don't know me, I would not expect you to take my word on this. As such here are some links that should provide the information needed to verify the above information:

EXCELLENT post regarding SSE by Bill Wiese (bwiese), whom I'm sure most here would regard as one to provide valid information:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=441766

A link directly to the ATF ruling regarding "drop in parts" and whether you need to be licensed as a manufacturer or not:

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2009-2.pdf

From the PDF:

Quote:
Any person who installs “drop in” replacement parts in or on existing, fully assembled firearms does not manufacture a firearm, and does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act. A “drop in” replacement part is one that can be installed in or on an existing, fully assembled firearm without drilling, cutting, or machining.
I'm certainly not infallible. If anyone sees anything incorrect in what I have posted please bring it to my attention ASAP.

Nothing I have posted above should be taken as legal advise or held to be 100% accurate. This is just what seems to be the clearly correct information to myself in doing my own research. Before jumping out into your own SSE endeavors it would be wise to contact your own attorney for verification of any information.

Steve
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  #233  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:25 PM
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I called Guns,Fishing &OS, to find out why the hell my name is going to DOJ, He said because he can and he wants to get answers to questions. I said, you should keep people out of your questions. He was not a rude man at all after I got talking to him, but I will say he is VERY ignorant on the issues. He brought up something about being illegal from county to county that if the SSE is legal here when you go to San Fran its illegal. Or something in that matter, also that there has been people prosecuted for these SSE firearms, When? I politely told him make whatever rules you want at your range but don't spread FUD and say stuff is illegal when in fact its not. Really we got no where, he will wait until he receive a firm answer from DOJ (after they knock on OP & my door And I told him to post it and that I will "look" into the legalities from county to county???
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  #234  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gunsfishing View Post
However, to make sure we are not in error, we have forwarded this post with your information & firearm information to DOJ, and am awaiting their response.
Repugnant.
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  #235  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
I called Guns,Fishing &OS, to find out why the hell my name is going to DOJ, He said because he can and he wants to get answers to questions.
Threatening consumers is a good way to lose your business license. If he keeps this up, he will not be in business for too long. What a class act.
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  #236  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Press Check View Post
You, sir, are a world-class douche-nozzle. Please, report me to the DOJ.



For future reference, a word of advice.

When you're involved in a dispute with someone, telephonic communicaton needs to stop immediately. To maintain records of what transpires during the dispute, all communition needs to be done via written correspondence. I.E., via email.

I would seriously urge you to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commision for misuse or threatening to misuse your personal information. His actions are clearly threatening and retaliatory of your public complaint.

http://ftc.gov/bcp/bcppip.shtm
THIS +10
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Originally Posted by keenkeen View Post
"What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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  #237  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
I called Guns,Fishing &OS, to find out why the hell my name is going to DOJ, He said because he can and he wants to get answers to questions. I said, you should keep people out of your questions. He was not a rude man at all after I got talking to him, but I will say he is VERY ignorant on the issues. He brought up something about being illegal from county to county that if the SSE is legal here when you go to San Fran its illegal. Or something in that matter, also that there has been people prosecuted for these SSE firearms, When? I politely told him make whatever rules you want at your range but don't spread FUD and say stuff is illegal when in fact its not. Really we got no where, he will wait until he receive a firm answer from DOJ (after they knock on OP & my door And I told him to post it and that I will "look" into the legalities from county to county???
Really, I can't believe you called and entertained ANY of his unfounded nonsense. His scare tactics are dubious at best.
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  #238  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz Arms View Post
I won't even go into what I think of the "shop's" policies and the actions of their owner. It's already been said enough and I think pretty much everyone at CGN agrees with what has been said.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the following information, which appears to be completely wrong. If we are going to try and educate people we have to be sure we are providing the correct information. Two FUDs don't make a right..

I'm in the process of obtaining my FFL and have done much research, spoke with attorneys, etc. From my understanding the following needs to be corrected about the SSE process to be accurate:



Incorrect. 01 FFLs can do SSEs because they are using drop in replacement parts. This is NOT considered manufacturing. Only if the gun itself would require gun smithing would a manufacturing 07 FFL be needed.



Correct.



Totally incorrect. At no point is anyone re-branding the firearms with their own make model and serial number..

I am looking at a completed DROS right now for a SSE off-roster handgun. Make, model and serial number are all original. The only things on the DROS different from a standard DROS are:

Transaction Type: Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/Exempt
Type: Single Shot
Barrel Length: 10.5 IN

Everything else is the same. There is no rebranding done.



Correct, except it does not have to be an 07 FFL.

As many here don't know me, I would not expect you to take my word on this. As such here are some links that should provide the information needed to verify the above information:

EXCELLENT post regarding SSE by Bill Wiese (bwiese), whom I'm sure most here would regard as one to provide valid information:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=441766

A link directly to the ATF ruling regarding "drop in parts" and whether you need to be licensed as a manufacturer or not:

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2009-2.pdf

From the PDF:



I'm certainly not infallible. If anyone sees anything incorrect in what I have posted please bring it to my attention ASAP.

Nothing I have posted above should be taken as legal advise or held to be 100% accurate. This is just what seems to be the clearly correct information to myself in doing my own research. Before jumping out into your own SSE endeavors it would be wise to contact your own attorney for verification of any information.

Steve
in the torrent of stupid coming out of that poster(i'm assuming that the poster quoted was quoting the same guy as the gunfishing posts), some things were bound to get missed.
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Last edited by robcoe; 10-16-2012 at 1:59 PM..
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  #239  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:41 PM
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EL_NinO619 EL_NinO619 is offline
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Originally Posted by Press Check View Post
Really, I can't believe you called and entertained ANY of his unfounded nonsense. His scare tactics are dubious at best.
I only called to inform him to STOP using my personal information in his DOJ inquiry. And to tell him he is still in the wrong.
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On 2 Hornady LnL AP & Dillon Super 1050
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  #240  
Old 10-16-2012, 1:43 PM
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A demand to discontinue abuse of your private and personal information would have been better suited via email.
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