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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #41  
Old 10-12-2012, 9:43 AM
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TrailerparkTrash TrailerparkTrash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtJim View Post
30+ yrs L.A. Co. Recently Retired LEO here. I'll keep it quite simple. Enforcing firearms laws for me and my subordinates were very simple. While we have "discretion" when enforcing the law, (which I seemed to use about 80% of the time on Vehicle Code viol's), when dealing with gun violations, those are taken very seriously! No "kumbahya", no oops, no I' m sorry. To me it was a decision that the individual made himself. As far as I was concerned, any excuse he had to offer, would just make me want to mimic "Bill Engvall - Here's your sign!". To violate gun laws nowadays one has to not care or be carrying one of Bill's signs.

Guess I was just old school on the streets and with my men. Good to be retired and not dealing with whiney spoon fed, momma's kids, with 3rd cousins who are lawyers and want my badge # so they can sue me for enforcing the law and arresting them!
Regardless of what one's "superior" or city Mayor thinks, California law gives much discretion to the individual officer on the decision to arrest or not, especially with most of the convoluted Cali gun laws on the books. Sadly, there are too many "anti gun" cops out there nowa days than in years past.

I've stopped people a few times that were "honest citizens" and they were not transporting a handgun exactly as the law describes. I used "spirit of the law" and educated the good peeps, then sent them on their way. I gave them a 5 minute "education" on the proper transporting requirement with the firearm, versus taking them to jail.

For me, it's all about the person that I contacted. If they had no criminal record/past, came up with a good story/reason as to why they were in possession of the firearm in the manner found by me, I'd let them go on their way. On the other hand, if they were on probation/parole, had warrants, were tweakers, gangsters, told me some bogus bull$*1t story or whatever.....10-15 every time.

The law allows a cop to use common sense regarding making an arrest or citing a person that probably doesn't need to be arrested or cited. Sadly, there are many cops out there that don't use common sense when it comes to good people in possession of a firearm. The "good people" probably just don't know the law and likewise, many cops today are equally confused by Cali's gun laws as well. Also, many cops out there just have this absurd "zero tolerance" policy within themselves and want to bring a gun to jail, just because it's a "gun."

Unfortunately, the old adage of "....that cop would cite his own mother," still reigns true to this day. Those types of "common sense" lacking cops are among us all.
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  #42  
Old 10-12-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalCop View Post
This is an absolute and unequivocal statement that you cannot possibly believe to be true; I hope you are exaggerating.

I have many years as a LEO, and a LEO firearms trainer in particular. Therefore I have the knowledge you refer to, and still consider some instances of "illegal carry" (tongue in cheek) to indeed be a small infraction. Carrying a firearm in many states in the USA is perfectly legal in almost every way imaginable. Only in gun-hating states like California, do we, even LEOs, become brainwashed by the mentality that guns are "bad."
And, therefore, CA's asinine and unconstitutional gun laws become our "new normal." Somehow many CA cops have decided they cannot use discretion when confronted with an otherwise law abiding citizen who happened to exercise his second amendment rights in a way Nanny CA decided it didn't like.

What do I think is illegal?.....some of CA's gun laws, you know, the unconstitutional ones.

I took my oath to uphold the constitution very seriously. If you feel a law is unconstitutional, you must weigh your oath to uphold the constitution against what you think a supervisor or politician might want you to do. No one can tell you how to reconcile these two sometimes conflicting interests. I cannot tell you when to err either way; and likewise, you can't tell me when to. The OP cannot tell the cop who arrested his friend how to make his decision either. Each of us must find our own peace when deciding to follow our oath to the constitution when it conflicts with "laws."
This is the best response I have ever seen from a LEO.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2012, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by undercow16969 View Post
Update.

My friend had the case dropped and an apology letter was given to him for his command because the officer and his partner exaggerated what actually happened on their paperwork. Nothing "career impacting" happened to him. Thank you for all the responses and your time.
Bravo! Glad to see cooler heads and the spirit of the law prevailed.
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2012, 6:54 PM
RileyBean RileyBean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtJim View Post
30+ yrs L.A. Co. Recently Retired LEO here. I'll keep it quite simple. Enforcing firearms laws for me and my subordinates were very simple. While we have "discretion" when enforcing the law, (which I seemed to use about 80% of the time on Vehicle Code viol's), when dealing with gun violations, those are taken very seriously! No "kumbahya", no oops, no I' m sorry. To me it was a decision that the individual made himself. As far as I was concerned, any excuse he had to offer, would just make me want to mimic "Bill Engvall - Here's your sign!". To violate gun laws nowadays one has to not care or be carrying one of Bill's signs.

Guess I was just old school on the streets and with my men. Good to be retired and not dealing with whiney spoon fed, momma's kids, with 3rd cousins who are lawyers and want my badge # so they can sue me for enforcing the law and arresting them!
This .....
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2012, 7:59 PM
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Why break it down into parts when you can get a small case and lock it? I think soft or hard case is fine as long as it locks. Someone will verify.

As for OP, glad it worked out for your friend.
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  #46  
Old 10-12-2012, 8:58 PM
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Default Spirit of the law must prevail

Those of you advocating strict enforcement of the letter of all gun laws......you don't know the law at all.

Refer to CA Penal Code Section 4:
Quote:
"The rule of the common law, that penal statutes are to be strictly construed, has no appplication to this Code. All its provisions are to be construed according to the fair import of their terms, with a view to effect its objects and to promote justice."
There it is! The Penal Code itself says that strict enforcement of the letter of the law has NO place in the CA Penal Code!

CA Penal Code Section 4 explains how we are to interpret all the rest of the code. It says...use the Penal code to promote justice...not the letter of the law.
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2012, 9:47 AM
Samuelx Samuelx is offline
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No one knows the details of the incident/arrest - the officer could have been ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED to make that arrest.

With respect to military folks, well, some of my best partners have been and are still currently military personnel. That being said, an alarming number of military personnel I've stopped or encountered on duty have been legitimate gang members (not just associates) too and that is a growing trend.
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  #48  
Old 10-13-2012, 11:27 AM
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I think the fact the charges were dropped gives credence to the OP's version of events. And, if it went down as the OP indicated...the spirit of the law and justice demand that the OP's friend should never have been arrested.
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  #49  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:41 AM
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Sometimes it is simply a matter of how busy a jurisdiction is..or is not,as the case may be. Sounds like the matter occurred where officers have a lot of discretionary time on their hands. I personally think that the letter of the law can violate the spirit of the law which is even more important...and I am not the originator of that concept. Some people will never get that idea...ever.
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  #50  
Old 01-01-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 5thgen4runner View Post
You sir are awesome!!!!! I vote for calcop as most down to earth, for the people leo on this forum.

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Ditto!..... Except for the sent from my Desire part.....
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  #51  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:27 PM
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This thread is going MUCH better than I expected

Seriously though, everything, and I mean everything that CalCop has said has been spot on. Bravo Sir!
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