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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 10-11-2012, 3:21 AM
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Does anyone know where I can buy 10" x 12" armor "plates" (non-ballistic) for the purpose of training and to serve as a substitute when actual plates are not needed (storage/range) but you don't want your plate carrier to be "floppy" or "bunch up"?

I found these at Tactical Assault Gear...
http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore....tplateset.aspx

I'm looking for something exactly like those, but without the weight and without the cost!
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2012, 4:14 AM
badreligion badreligion is offline
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Have you looked at what the air soft stores have? Airsoft Extreme had them for $25 a plate but they are out of stock right now. Doesn't mean other stores don't have them.
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2012, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
Have you looked at what the air soft stores have? Airsoft Extreme had them for $25 a plate but they are out of stock right now. Doesn't mean other stores don't have them.
That's a damn good idea. My favorite local shop carries air soft gear. Now that I think of it, I may of indeed seen something there. I'll try and stop by today. If they don't have something, I'll try online, maybe Evike.

I ordered a Shellback/TAG banshee plate carrier from SKD, and I can't afford plates for awhile... plus I don't really want to wear them in the carrier for "casual" training/range use.

I've seen people make their own from cardboard but I think that's a bit too ghetto for me.
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  #44  
Old 10-14-2012, 8:41 PM
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Some plate carriers don't require plates to be inserted to work as a stand alone chest rig. You can probably adjust the rig to work without the plates and then readjust once you have plates in the carrier. I understand the desire to make the rig fit properly as if you had real plates but for the cost of fake plates you could probably buy one of the less expensive real plates on eBay.
I haven't worn plates for several years now even though I have several carriers that allow plates to be worn. I will be buying several sets of plates to fill out those rigs as I am getting into more non static training. In my expriance the more you wear a properly adjusted rig with plates in it you quickly forget that they are in it. The old motto of train like you fight is true for everything you do in a training cycle your equipment is no different.
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  #45  
Old 10-18-2012, 5:46 PM
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Just got a carrier. I don't know anything about plates but my idea is to take some courses. I don't honestly or ever hope I will have to wear these in a real fight, but you never know. I am battling between ceramic or steel. I think I want stand alone and want to pay somewhere between 3-400 dollars. Any ideas or help would be great. Thanks

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  #46  
Old 10-20-2012, 1:13 AM
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http://www.armordesigns.com/products-standalone.html

Anyone have experience with these plates?
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  #47  
Old 12-03-2012, 8:05 PM
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found some useful info on the NIJ standards

http://granitestatepolicesupply.com/NIJ-Standards/
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briguy64 View Post
http://www.armordesigns.com/products-standalone.html

Anyone have experience with these plates?

Wow! 3.2 pounds isn't bad for Level III. I would be curious to see how that proprietary curve would feel in a PC as well.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2012, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalPlinker View Post
Does anyone know where I can buy 10" x 12" armor "plates" (non-ballistic) for the purpose of training and to serve as a substitute when actual plates are not needed (storage/range) but you don't want your plate carrier to be "floppy" or "bunch up"?

I found these at Tactical Assault Gear...
http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore....tplateset.aspx

I'm looking for something exactly like those, but without the weight and without the cost!

You can always make your own plates by cutting out layers of cardboard and using polyester resin to make a replica of your real plates. You could even manipulate the overall weight and dimensions to be the same. I would recommend inlaying "Training" into the resin so people won't think they are real. I have not done this myself. Only issue I can see is how well the cardboard would soak up the resin. May take a couple times to get it right.
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  #50  
Old 12-09-2012, 6:54 PM
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anyone try these guys?

http://www.safeguardclothing.com/cov...ke-proof-vest/
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  #51  
Old 12-09-2012, 7:05 PM
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Make sure it is 100% WOVEN Kevlar. Does not stipulate in the ad.
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  #52  
Old 01-21-2013, 8:18 PM
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Can you suggest some manufacturers of vests/soft armor that can also be used as plate carriers so I can get some ideas of what to look for? I'd like to eventually have level III armor (maybe even level IV). I saw the link that was posted for what plates to get, but I'm not really sure where to look for the soft armor/carrier.
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  #53  
Old 01-21-2013, 9:31 PM
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My current top 4 recommendations for plate carriers, priced from high to low:

SKD Pig ~$320

TAG Banshee ~$135 (CAN NO LONGER RECOMMEND IF YOU NEED TO WEAR SIDE HARD ARMOR- CUMMERBUND DOES NOT ACCEPT 6" TALL PLATES)

Beez Combat Systems Slick ~ $70-$90

NEW BEST/LEAST EXPENSIVE- CONDOR Plate Carrier $69-100

Unless you are facing a certain threat of AP rounds, stick with level III hard armor. Level IV spec is *1 ROUND* of M2 AP, and no promise or guarantee that it will stop a moth fart after that.

The four recommended carriers come without soft or hard armor. The only carrier that I currently am aware of (and there may be others that I am not) is the Eagle CIRAS, with sewn-in level IIIA armor. The above carriers all utilize standard 10X12 or 11X14 soft armor backers, in what is called "shooters cut." This is a rectangle with the upper corners clipped to allow a rifles stock to be comfortably shouldered. They are all compatible with side armor, both hard and soft, through the use of cummerbunds and plate pockets.

Last edited by d-r; 03-04-2013 at 6:47 PM..
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  #54  
Old 01-21-2013, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
My current top 3 recommendations for plate carriers, priced from high to low:

SKD Pig ~$320

TAG Banshee ~$135

Beez Combat Systems Slick ~ $70-$90

Unless you are facing a certain threat of AP rounds, stick with level III hard armor. Level IV spec is *1 ROUND* of M2 AP, and no promise or guarantee that it will stop a moth fart after that.

The three recommended carriers come without soft or hard armor. The only carrier that I currently am aware of (and there may be others that I am not) is the Eagle CIRAS, with sewn-in level IIIA armor. The above carriers all utilize standard 10X12 or 11X14 soft armor backers, in what is called "shooters cut." This is a rectangle with the upper corners clipped to allow a rifles stock to be comfortably shouldered. They are all compatible with side armor, both hard and soft, through the use of cummerbunds and plate pockets.

Thanks, I'll take a look at those.

I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were able to get level IIIA armor that was also a carrier. So most armor you just buy a carrier and then you can use either soft armor inserts or plates? I thought/understood it as you use the ICW plates with soft armor. I'm fairly new to this but would like to look into it. Are the carriers you mentioned capable of stopping spalls? Please excuse my ignorance.

Edit: have you heard of Diamondback Tactical? https://www.diamondbacktactical.com/...ical-carriers/ Just curious as I came across it in my limited bit of searching.

Last edited by Topgun863; 01-21-2013 at 9:55 PM..
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  #55  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:53 AM
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You CAN get full-up soft armor that also will take plates, but it is more a function of the carrier than the armor. The armor package is generally removable, and the carrier is usually either covert (concealable) or overt (designed to carry gear, mags, etc.). You can often use the same soft armor package in both types. Most plate carriers (overt or covert) can be used without plates when you want less weight.

Regarding spall, the carriers on their own will stop about 40-50% of the spalling from plate strikes, but they will be ripped to shreds and so will your face/throat. For a video of what a carrier looks like from just two rounds worth of spalling, please send me an IM with your email address. I strongly encourage the use of spall guards, either using surplus kevlar panels in front of the plate, or my custom made guards.

DBT makes great gear. They also have excellent concealable carriers. Be aware that their armor packages do contain laminates.
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  #56  
Old 02-06-2013, 7:02 PM
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http://strikeindustries.com/shop/ind...i/aegis-2.html

anyone tried these or have any opinions on this setup? thanks!
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  #57  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:07 AM
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These are ok, biggest issue is the snag factor on the front wings of the cummerbund.
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  #58  
Old 02-07-2013, 6:48 PM
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Anyone have thoughts comments on Paraclete armor/plate rigs? Heard a lot of the ex-SF contractors were/are using them in Stan.... ??
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  #59  
Old 02-08-2013, 5:46 PM
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Their nylon is *really nice*. I recommend checking the armor packages they make before purchase, as only 1/3 of the ones they offer are 100% woven P-Aramid. Those are GTG.
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  #60  
Old 02-11-2013, 12:21 PM
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A NOTE ON SPALL: Spall is defined as fragments resulting from an impact. When discussing rifle plates, spall is a major concern in all except UHMWPE. When a round strikes a hard face plate, it usually will come apart. spraying lead and jacket fragments in a conoid trajectory (like a drop of water hitting the ground). This will spray fragments parallel to the surface of the plate, including up and into your face and throat. To mitigate spall, it is advised you run spall guards. Tests have shown that layering (BUT NOT GLUEING) 5-10 layers of woven Kevlar to the surface of the plate can be moderately effective. Special forms of Kevlar are even more effective, stopping the majority of spalling with a single layer. Applying coatings such as Line-X and Rhino Lining can also be effective, but require much thicker layers, and after about 5 rounds are rendered ineffective. The advantage of steel plates is their thin profile and multi-hit capacity, so coatings are a stopgap at best. Engineered spall guards are optimal, as they can be replaced easily, continue to be effective after multiple hits, and keep the plate profile thin, as it should be.

*NEW INFORMATION ADDED*Super Bainite Steel- This is a new twist on an old material. Bainite steel is a form of crystalline structure that steel forms when processed in a special way. It is EXTREMELY tough, consisting of iron particles in a carbon matrix. While being very hard, it is tough enough to resist shattering like glass, which is what happens when steel is hardened past a certain point. Currently, it is the only way to get level IV (AP) multi-hit protection out of a steel plate. The only source I know of right now is ebay (look up flashbainite). All the other advice about steel plates apply.
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  #61  
Old 02-14-2013, 8:47 PM
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Lots of good info here. Check out Amendment II and US Armor.
http://www.usarmor.com/
http://tinyurl.com/d5reaou
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  #62  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:26 PM
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what is the best placement for the plates? high low?
im 6' 1" 220lbs but have short legs 32", so my torso is long and big.
how high or low should it be worn?
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  #63  
Old 02-24-2013, 8:08 PM
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Good info about plates and protection levels.

Is there anyplace that will allow me to try on, or should I just have my measurements ready when ordering?
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  #64  
Old 02-24-2013, 9:37 PM
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1Snakedoc- The higher the better. You want the top of the plate to reach your sternal notch.

American Standard- For plates and carriers, they tend to run either one size fits all, or S, M, L. Usually if you supply your measurements that will be sufficient.
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  #65  
Old 02-25-2013, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
1Snakedoc- The higher the better. You want the top of the plate to reach your sternal notch.

American Standard- For plates and carriers, they tend to run either one size fits all, or S, M, L. Usually if you supply your measurements that will be sufficient.
i did not know it should be that high, that leaves a lot of me naked on the lower side. not sure what to do about that?
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  #66  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:35 AM
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Yeah, it does tend to leave a lot exposed- Rifle plates are designed to protect the absolutely *most* vitals (heart/lungs), with the thought being you can survive hits to other areas to make it to medical care. Designs like Dragon Skin remedied this situation, but the armor is both expensive ($7-$8K and up) and hard to find.
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  #67  
Old 02-25-2013, 9:07 AM
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Talking Some helpful pieces of advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topgun863 View Post
Can you suggest some manufacturers of vests/soft armor that can also be used as plate carriers so I can get some ideas of what to look for? I'd like to eventually have level III armor (maybe even level IV). I saw the link that was posted for what plates to get, but I'm not really sure where to look for the soft armor/carrier.
I highly recommend Beez Combat Systems. I have used their products a lot over the years becasue their customer service is awesome, they make an excellent line of products, and you get a very well-designed & well thought-out piece of gear for relatively little...when you compare their prices to the other Gucci-gear makers out there.

Here's a review I did for them: http://blog.beezcombatsystems.com/bo...ontractor.html

I highly recommend the NIJ-II vest or the OTV LBAV. For body armor that you'll be wearing for an extended period of time, you want it to be comfortable and form fitting. I have encountered many guys in the private security & security contracting world who do NOT wear their issued armor because they say it's uncomfortable or it does not fit well. That's their call. Me, I say in that case, invest in your own and wear it on duty (obviously with permission from the respective stakeholders).

If it's on your own dime, used on your time, then you still want something that will last, will be affordable, and can be tailored to fit your needs. This is why I use the Beez Combat Systems NIJ-II or the OTV LBAV. Both vests will take soft armor inserts. The NIJ-II will take NIJ "standard" vests (I.E. police issue body armor). On the front and back of the NIJ-II , there are pockets for you to insert hard (rifle) plates. So, if you need to, you can "armor up," and tailor your body armor to fit your needs. The cool thing about the NIJ-II is that it has 2 elastic straps on each side and they conform to your body. This is very important. What's the point of having body armor on if it doesn't cover the areas you need?

The OTV LBAV will take the armor inserts from any commonly encountered "Interceptor" vest...the standard GI "flak jacket" that you see soldiers and Marines wear in the news. The OTV LBAV turns the 3-piece "Interceptor" into a 2-piece vest with adjustable straps on the side, so it's easy to take on and off. Plus, it'll take hard (rifle) plates in the front and back as well, also allowing you to "armor up," if necessary.

The other cool thing about both of these vests is that you can throw on a Rhodesian chest rig, or a zip-up tactical vest, or a load bearing vest over these armor carriers. Used NIJ "standard" armor and military surplus "Interceptor" vests are easy to find. Check out www.GunBroker.com or www.AuctionArms.com or www.BulletProofMe.com.

These are just the observations and recommendations of a former Marine and current security contractor. Best bet is to go to some of the different tactical gear retailers around and try some stuff on. Hope this helps. Cheers!

--1911ShooterPhil
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Last edited by 1911ShooterPhil; 02-25-2013 at 9:12 AM.. Reason: Added better links...
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  #68  
Old 02-25-2013, 12:12 PM
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Huge thumbs up to what Phil said. If you need a carrier, go with a Beez, they can literally make it to fit anything you have. This means all you need to find is the armor panels themselves. Get those to fit you, and have Beez take care of the rest.
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  #69  
Old 02-25-2013, 2:51 PM
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i looking at the TAG Banshee.
i need one that hold side plates and the beez one is more than the banshee.
is it really that much better to spend for the beez?
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Old 02-25-2013, 4:20 PM
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In the case of dedicated plate carriers, the TAG Banshee is my all-around first choice. If you are not running side plates or side soft armor, the Beez is less expensive.

Again, to re-list the choices in terms of features and price, they are:

$$$ SKD PIG- Top of the heap in features, and priced accordingly.

$$ TAG Banshee- Excellent balance of features and price.

$ Beez Slick- Best value, durability, and comfort, especially if not running side plates/soft armor. Upgradeable to cummerbund if required.

Hope this is helpful. There are many, MANY choices as far as plate carriers out there, these have been the ones I have kept coming back to.
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  #71  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:32 PM
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which one is the easiest to put on, and how dose it work.
most i have seen you have to undo a lot just to get it on, i show a pic of one that had a way to undo the cummerbund with out having to undo 8'x8' of velcro, it had a buckle, do any of these have something like this?
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  #72  
Old 02-26-2013, 10:45 AM
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Most PC have a shoulder and waist buckle or hook and loop. In most cases, you can leave the shoulders and one side buckled, and just undo the cummerbund buckle or hook and loop to don or doff.
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  #73  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1snakedoc View Post
i looking at the TAG Banshee.
i need one that hold side plates and the beez one is more than the banshee.
is it really that much better to spend for the beez?
I have a 40 chest and I found the Banshee to be too wide for me with medium esapi plates & backers. I couldn't get a decent stock weld at all. The loop material on the upper portion of the carrier is super slippery so my stocks would all slide right off of the plate. The buckles on the shoulder straps prevented me from placing the stock above the cutout in the plates and there wasn't enough of me on the sides of the plates to place a stock. IMO the wrap under front flap closure is a pain as well. The wide shoulder straps also made it so I had to fight the plate carrier to bring my arms together to shoot pistols.

I moved to a Mayflower APC and with the same plates I have much better mobility. No issues with stock placement and no fighting the carrier when I shoot pistols. The extra cost was money well spent. The soft armor package for the Mayflower is also slightly cheaper than the Banshee's ($335 vs $370).

When you spec out the whole package the APC isn't really much more expensive with the Banshee running ~$520 (PC, Shoulder Pads, Soft Armor Package), and the APC running ~$550 for the same setup (APC comes with shoulder pads default). The only pros of the Banshee over the APC IMO are the NIJ .06 rated soft armor (APC Velocity Systems is only rated .04 - this only really matters for the cummerbund armor and only if you get shot at a contact shot distance), and 1000D construction vs 500D for the APC (may not be a "pro" depending on use case).

Last edited by FaRKle!; 02-26-2013 at 12:29 PM..
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  #74  
Old 02-26-2013, 2:52 PM
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Default Simple plate carriers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1snakedoc View Post
which one is the easiest to put on, and how dose it work.
most i have seen you have to undo a lot just to get it on, i show a pic of one that had a way to undo the cummerbund with out having to undo 8'x8' of velcro, it had a buckle, do any of these have something like this?
The absolute easiest to put on and use is the Blackhawk Lo-Vis Plate Carrier (http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Low...ier,711,83.htm) or the Blackhawk STRIKE Plate Carrier Harness (http://www.blackhawk.com/product/STR...ess,737,83.htm). Both are extremely spartan in nature and do NOT have a cumberbund. You throw them over your head and buckle them on the side. That easy. I have used both systems. Yes, they are not sexy looking, but they hold your plates and are quick to get into use. Cheers! --1911ShooterPhil
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  #75  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:25 PM
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i order a banshee it looks good and most think it is good quality.
i wear a 46 jacket so maybe it will fit right.
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  #76  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1snakedoc View Post
i order a banshee it looks good and most think it is good quality.
i wear a 46 jacket so maybe it will fit right.
Should fit you just fine. The official plate backers for this thing are sized closer to a large esapi plate than a medium one (they're 12.5"x11").
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  #77  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:39 PM
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chris chris is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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i have the Banshee and i like it. very well made. i'm 6'2" and fits well.
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  #78  
Old 03-03-2013, 5:47 PM
Opticalabyss Opticalabyss is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North OC
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Hi all I am not associated with this company but I have seen some youtube videos on their armor and it is really good stuff for a very low price.

They sell Steel plates as low as $65

http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php

Last edited by Opticalabyss; 03-03-2013 at 5:54 PM..
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  #79  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:05 AM
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d-r d-r is offline
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If you are going with steel, use the most up to date technology, which is flash Bainite:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Best-AR5...item3ccf1b95e5

Not associated with this company either.
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  #80  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:47 AM
Aufdrahtsein Aufdrahtsein is offline
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I was looking at AR500's plates for my plate-carrier ( FAPC made by Diamond Back Tactical ), but none of them are the right size; any suggestions about where to go to get plates made or what type of steel is best for the job so I can attempt to make them myself?
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