Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-24-2012, 11:24 PM
Cactuscooler Cactuscooler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 176
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Citizen arrest 847 (A) question.

Me and my friend were debating the legalities and liability of penal code 847 (A).

Which states " (a)A private person who has arrested another for the commission of a public offense must, without unnecessary delay, take the person arrested before a magistrate, or deliver him or her to a peace officer."

He is a security company owner and typically when he would arrest somebody he would have to call law enforcement and await their arrival. Typically, it could take awhile before a Officer shows up to transfer custody; so we were wondering would be acceptable for him to drive to the station and do the exchange there? Hypothetically speaking here. I know bail enforcement does this usually, so it's not uncommon.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-25-2012, 12:51 AM
Big D's Avatar
Big D Big D is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: so cal
Posts: 870
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Legally I guess it's ok, but liability wise I wouldn't take the risk of transporting a person who had been arrested under private person's arrest in a company vehicle.
Other concerns I would have are
1. You never know what kind of evidence the police might want to look for at the crime scene.
2. You better be damn sure it's a good arrest because detaining/arresting the person is one thing, but once you as a private person remove them against their will I think you are approaching the elements of kidnapping.

Lastly, why take the risk? Security is a risky enough business, just let the cops with the backing of the city or county handle the transport. If they are taking an unreasonable amount of time, then just call again, but the delay is articulable as long as you have called them in a timely manner.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-25-2012, 12:55 AM
Petro6golf's Avatar
Petro6golf Petro6golf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Wastelands
Posts: 1,238
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Your asking for trouble on that one. Just stay in your lane and you'll be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-25-2012, 1:26 AM
Cactuscooler Cactuscooler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 176
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post
Legally I guess it's ok, but liability wise I wouldn't take the risk of transporting a person who had been arrested under private person's arrest in a company vehicle.
Other concerns I would have are
1. You never know what kind of evidence the police might want to look for at the crime scene.
2. You better be damn sure it's a good arrest because detaining/arresting the person is one thing, but once you as a private person remove them against their will I think you are approaching the elements of kidnapping.

Lastly, why take the risk? Security is a risky enough business, just let the cops with the backing of the city or county handle the transport. If they are taking an unreasonable amount of time, then just call again, but the delay is articulable as long as you have called them in a timely manner
.
You brought up some valid points. My friend isn't in the business of playing "cop" we both understand and respect LE. The reason I bring up the issue is because sometimes certain crimes are committed in our presence. His policy is to only arrest for for felonies, anything else just report or call it in. The whole " unlawful imprisonment" factor did cross our minds, but we figured as long as the arrest is valid and meets the elements of the crimes it should be good.

On occasion there's been instances where we waited 30 mins at 3:00 in the morning or so, we had one arrestee in our custody and we waited with him the whole time. I felt that we could have just drove him to the station and transferred custody. But on the liability part I agree with what your saying 100%.

Last edited by Cactuscooler; 09-25-2012 at 1:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-25-2012, 3:55 AM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 10,434
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactuscooler View Post
You brought up some valid points. My friend isn't in the business of playing "cop" we both understand and respect LE. The reason I bring up the issue is because sometimes certain crimes are committed in our presence. His policy is to only arrest for for felonies, anything else just report or call it in. The whole " unlawful imprisonment" factor did cross our minds, but we figured as long as the arrest is valid and meets the elements of the crimes it should be good.

On occasion there's been instances where we waited 30 mins at 3:00 in the morning or so, we had one arrestee in our custody and we waited with him the whole time. I felt that we could have just drove him to the station and transferred custody. But on the liability part I agree with what your saying 100%.
Your also assuming that there will be someone at the station availible to turn the suspect over to. In many cities, that is not an option.
__________________


Ignorance can be educated.
Crazy can be medicated.
But there is no cure for stupid.


Police Brutality? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114

NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-25-2012, 7:26 AM
mixicus mixicus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 540
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Good points above. Additionally:

A likely reason you had to wait is there was no officer available. The 3 officers on duty maybe working a DUI/TC, sorting out a DV or searching for the attempt burg suspect. Taking a prisoner to the station won't change the basic fact no one was available. It does mean you'll be waiting in your car not the office with a computer, magazines, coffee pot,...etc. Plus the liability issues raised above.

Unless you are in a large department's jurisdiction where they have a desk officer, most of night shift is out looking for bad guys. There maybe somebody in the house writing a report but nothing says that will be the beat officer for your area. So now the beat officer has to leave the beat and drive to the station probably adding time to the response.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-25-2012, 7:31 AM
billmaykafer's Avatar
billmaykafer billmaykafer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: san diego,ca
Posts: 1,266
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

have you or your friend read the 4th amendment to the us constitution?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-25-2012, 7:54 AM
NuGunner NuGunner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SGV/LA
Posts: 956
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

Depending on the city your in, wether its patrolled by sheriffs or PD, you're still going to have to wait for an officer to come in off the street to take custody of the suspect. That will just keep you waiting at the station.

Now if you could get them to sign a transport waiver, you might be ok.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-25-2012, 9:18 AM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 2,462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I think your too focused on the unnecessary delay phrase and worried about any liability that could befall you because of that phrase. If you have called the local pd to turn over the arrest that portion has been fulfilled on your part.
You run a much greater risk of liability transporting someone yourself than you do waiting for someone to respond.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2012, 6:56 AM
HB Surfer HB Surfer is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: California
Posts: 17
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You also have no idea who you’re dealing with after you've made an arrest. The person in your custody could be a wanted felon or a third sticker. Transporting the person could be Your last ride. Wait for an officer, that's what they're paid for.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-03-2012, 1:37 PM
Armed24-7's Avatar
Armed24-7 Armed24-7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 268
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Legally, yes he could but it would be foolish for him to try that. He would be opening himself up for all kinds of liability issues. He would need a way properly secure his "prisoner" in the vehicle, particularly if he is transporting by himself. SO many things can go wrong and they will sooner or later. I have seen just about everything.

It is much better to just await the arrival of law enforcement.
__________________

"If you expect logic associated with California law, it will only make your head hurt.." - Ron-Solo, 2013
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:15 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.