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  #1  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:12 PM
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Question ? about shoplifting

So my buddy is 24 and a few years ago when he was 22 he got caught shop lifting at wal mart . He said the value of the item was $25 (food and shoes) and it was returned to the store . The cops were not called he just signed some paper and had to pay $300 to some law firm .so he asked me if thats why he is not able to find a job I said I dont think it is on his record( since he was not arrested ).

But im not a leo or lawyer so it got me wondering could it be on his record and be preventing him from finding work? is there any way to get it expunged or sealed if it is on his record ? if it could be expunged can he do it himself or will it require a lawyer?

He is a good guy he was just homeless at the time and made a very very stupid choice. I would hate to see one bad choice mess up the rest of his life . Well any info would be appreciated .
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:21 PM
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Sounds like Walmart handled it internally.
He can go through the process of requesting his own criminal record to check for accuracy:
http://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/security

Also, sounds like your friend has a number of issues.
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  #3  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:38 PM
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Sounds like Walmart handled it internally.
He can go through the process of requesting his own criminal record to check for accuracy:
http://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/security

Also, sounds like your friend has a number of issues.
thanks for the link I forwarded it to him I hope for his sake its not on his record and was handled internally . Yes he does have issues he lost his mother and when she passed he had no where else to live and started drinking very heavily which didnt help him one bit but now hes trying to get his life back on track .
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:21 AM
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Default have him try to buy auto insurance, even w/out a car.

the agent will TRY to instantly 'pull DMV' record to make sure his driving record is what he says......

but....

and I just found this out.....


SOMETIMES your DL will come back a 'no hit' because DMV is 'protecting it' and I'm guessing any employer doing "routine background check" will assume you gave a phony DL # because you are a cockroach hoping they wont run nuthin.


I believe you can charm a Auto Ins. agent into pulling your record just to "make sure" you can buy Ins.....TO SEE IF YOUR TYPICAL "background" check(private company with your permission) will be ABLE to get your record......

or will they give the impression you gave them phony DL #.




Yes, CA State "business environment" just got worse. What if you got a small company and some client says "great, but we need to run check on your employees who will be installing/building our products".

Now you don't know if CA DMV will feel like complying with the law and releasing your record.
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Old 09-24-2012, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Squid View Post
the agent will TRY to instantly 'pull DMV' record to make sure his driving record is what he says......

but....

and I just found this out.....


SOMETIMES your DL will come back a 'no hit' because DMV is 'protecting it' and I'm guessing any employer doing "routine background check" will assume you gave a phony DL # because you are a cockroach hoping they wont run nuthin.


I believe you can charm a Auto Ins. agent into pulling your record just to "make sure" you can buy Ins.....TO SEE IF YOUR TYPICAL "background" check(private company with your permission) will be ABLE to get your record......

or will they give the impression you gave them phony DL #.




Yes, CA State "business environment" just got worse. What if you got a small company and some client says "great, but we need to run check on your employees who will be installing/building our products".

Now you don't know if CA DMV will feel like complying with the law and releasing your record.
I may be missing something here but what does a shoplifting contact at Walmart have to do with a persons DMV Driving Record?
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2012, 5:30 AM
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You lost me there too, bud.
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Old 09-24-2012, 8:36 AM
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Not an LEO

He signed a promissory note. The worst this could do is screw up his credit record. My guess is he didn't steal enough to get the DA to push charges. I've never worked for wal mart though.
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Old 09-24-2012, 8:58 AM
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I may be missing something here but what does a shoplifting contact at Walmart have to do with a persons DMV Driving Record?
Glad I'm not the only one thinking, WTF?
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:10 AM
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Default GREAT QUESTION, glad you asked....I've heard of DL being suspended for

failure to pay restitution, but I think you would at some point be in court, but today I'm not sure, with "robo-signing" etc.

Anyways, his main question was "getting a job" and since I just discovered this weirdness about CA refusing to release some DL to Ins. (or other private background check) I figured maybe it isn't the shoplifting, since we hear he is "troubled" but no info on DMV.

I haven't had a ticket in 7 years but the DMV wont release my DL to my Ins because "my record is too big and it will bug out our system"(their actual terms). To this day (working on it) I have no clue what "too big" could be.

I've had one address change and back to same address, and I've had about 5 diff cars all smogged and legal in my name.

If I hadn't switched Ins. companies I'd have no idea the DMV would be telling any background checker "we don't have any info on that DL".

Thats right, they don't say "we ain't gonna give info" they tell folks my DL # don't exist, like it is a phony.

Maybe Meg Whitman's maid "Niki" got a new DL and is using my DL #.


PS-Is such a "promissory note" signed under such duress legal? Lets remember he was only accused, by some Walmart rent-a-cop with no real training.

Isn't "pay me or I'll call the cops" still Blackmail, even if they are breaking the law, because it tends to be not about the Govt side but the "personal embarrassment" side of the equation?

Last edited by Squid; 09-24-2012 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:04 AM
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OO now I see what you mean about the DMV , And yeah they pretty much told him to sign the paper or they will call the cops then he got a letter 3 weeks later telling him to pay $300 (which I helped him pay) after it was paid they sent him a civil penelty release letter . That said " in consideration for the payment of $300 the payment of which does not consitute an admissinon of liability ,Wal mart hereby releases XXXX from all statutory civil penalities arising out of an inncident that happened at store number XXX on XX/XX/XXX .

Does it mean that it doesnt go on his record ? or that they just arent gonna sue him?
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:20 AM
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Does it mean that it doesnt go on his record ? or that they just arent gonna sue him?
If the Police were not called as you earlier stated, there is no record.

He paid the money to Wal Mart and was released from the civil penalty from the paper he signed at Wal Mart. There is no official record for that.

If your friend isn't getting hired, it's not because of the Wal Mart incident, unless he was asked about it he disclosed it.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:29 AM
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If the Police were not called as you earlier stated, there is no record.

He paid the money to Wal Mart and was released from the civil penalty from the paper he signed at Wal Mart. There is no official record for that.

If your friend isn't getting hired, it's not because of the Wal Mart incident, unless he was asked about it he disclosed it.
Ok thats what I thought , and no he has not disclosed it Thats what got us wonder if it was on his record and he didnt disclose it so when his record was ran they saw it then denied him the job due to false info on his job app.Im gonna help him get his record review from the DOJ just to be sure I figure $25 is worth it so he knows for sure whats on his record.

Thank you all for the help
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:15 PM
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Pay up or we'll call the cops is an empty threat. Loss prevention would have called the cops if he had stolen more merchandise. The DA aren't going to waste their time on $25. The worst that would have happened if he had refused to sign is a trip to be booked and I have seen the cops refuse to take folks; most times the cops just let them go outside the store.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:20 PM
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Pay up or we'll call the cops is an empty threat. Loss prevention would have called the cops if he had stolen more merchandise. The DA aren't going to waste their time on $25. The worst that would have happened if he had refused to sign is a trip to be booked and I have seen the cops refuse to take folks; most times the cops just let them go outside the store.
May have been a empty threat but it sure did scare my friend into signing the paper and paying the fine .
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
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Old 09-24-2012, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fspeed View Post
Pay up or we'll call the cops is an empty threat. Loss prevention would have called the cops if he had stolen more merchandise. The DA aren't going to waste their time on $25. The worst that would have happened if he had refused to sign is a trip to be booked and I have seen the cops refuse to take folks; most times the cops just let them go outside the store.
If the suspect had a picture ID and it returned clear when we ran them, we could, with a field sgt.'s ok, (which was a formality) cite them out on a promise to appear. We'd write the PĒ section on the same type of ticket we issued for VC violations.

So yes, in those instances, we'd let them go outside the store after citing and advising them to never enter any of their stores again or be arrested for trespassing.
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Old 09-24-2012, 1:34 PM
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What happend is this: Walmart did not prosecute or share any information with law enforcement. They simply used a law firm doubling as a collection agency to collect restitution under the California law because the dollar amount was under the limit warranting prosecution per Walmart corporate policy.

HOWEVER, what you buddy didn't know is that Walmart belongs to a network of businesses that shares information on customers and employees that get caught stealing. There are supposedly over a thousand different businesses that can all access that information, so when your buddy applied for a job and they did a background check, it would flag not on a criminal check with the county/state/DMV, but within the network of businesses.

That sharing of information is all perfectly legal, and there is no way for him to get that removed. It may drop off on its own after a certain period of years, but I don't know and they wouldn't know at the Walmart store level either.

People don't understand how committing what they consider to be a minor crime like shoplifting can affect their life for years to come.

It's all about choices.

Last edited by Coolguy101; 09-24-2012 at 2:25 PM..
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Old 09-24-2012, 1:36 PM
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May have been a empty threat but it sure did scare my friend into signing the paper and paying the fine .
It's sort of an empty threat as in they probably wouldn't file after the fact, but they would certainly put it on his credit and they would go after him that way. They also may file a civil case against him and get a judgement for the amount, which they would certainly win because he had signed the paper agreeing to pay and Walmart has the right under California law to collect restitution from him.
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Old 09-24-2012, 2:03 PM
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What happend is this: Walmart did not prosecute or share any information with law enforcement. They simply used a law firm doubling as a collection agency to collect restitution under the California law because the dollar amout warranting prosecution per Walmart corporate policy.

HOWEVER, what you buddy didn't know is that Walmart belongs to a network of businesses that shares information on customers and employees that get caught stealing. There are supposedly over a thousand different businesses that can all access that information, so when your buddy applied for a job and they did a background check, it would flag not on a criminal check with the county/state/DMV, but within the network of businesses.

That isharing of information is all perfectly legal, and there is no way for him to get that removed. It may drop off on its own after a certain period of years, but I don't know and they wouldn't know at the Walmart store level either.

People don't understand how committing what they consider to be a minor crime like shoplifting can affect their life for years to come.

It's all about choices.
Oh dam I did not know that so hes pretty F****D if he applies to any business that shares that info Well looks like I need to tell him I have some good news and some bad news , good news not on his permanet record bad that it is still in a database that is shared between companies and there is no way of removing it . It sucks how one bad choice is all it takes to screw up your future I fill bad because he is really trying to get his ducks in a row . Its very true about choices and sadly he made a bad choice but who hasnt made at least one bad choice in their lives ?
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Last edited by chillincody; 09-24-2012 at 2:05 PM..
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Old 09-24-2012, 2:23 PM
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Yup, everybody makes choices in their lives, some of them bad.

The thing is companies don't want to hire thieves, as they tend to make bad employees.

People rarely (if ever) get caught stealing the very first time they try it, unless they are 6 years old. When adults get caught, its usually because they've gotten away with it so many times they get careless and security catches them.

So a more likely story is your buddy has done it more than a few times before, and finally got caught (although he will probably swear it was only that one time).

Of course I don't know this for sure, but I would suspect that is the case.

So a company looks at a potential candidate who potentially has a history of making bad decisions, and chooses to hire someone else instead.

Thats real life, where bad choices have real consequences, unlike movies.
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Old 09-24-2012, 2:36 PM
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Yup, everybody makes choices in their lives, some of them bad.

The thing is companies don't want to hire thieves, as they tend to make bad employees.

People rarely (if ever) get caught stealing the very first time they try it, unless they are 6 years old. When adults get caught, its usually because they've gotten away with it so many times they get careless and security catches them.

So a more likely story is your buddy has done it more than a few times before, and finally got caught (although he will probably swear it was only that one time).

Of course I don't know this for sure, but I would suspect that is the case.

So a company looks at a potential candidate who potentially has a history of making bad decisions, and chooses to hire someone else instead.

Thats real life, where bad choices have real consequences, unlike movies.
I agree with you I would not want to hire someone with a history of stealing. and he did not try to lie and say it was his first time( only the 1st time he got caught) he admitted he did it a few times when he was homeless (which is no excuse ) but I understand that people will do what they have to do to survive and the fact that he drank as much as he did surely clouded his judgement . But I also think people should get a second chance and he has proved to me he wants to change which is why im trying to help him. He quit drinking 6_7 months ago and has been living at my house off and on for that time .
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Old 09-25-2012, 9:01 AM
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Default "or I'll call the cops" not that empty of a threat, as most of the people in question

(youthful shoplifters) will think that means their parents, spouse, work will end up finding out, and that outways any minor loss of time or fine.

They (at least at the time) will think it will keep them out of a job (very likely) or out of military(also likely) or out of college, the Country Club, etc.

Yeah, I've know people who got shoplifting conviction, and plea itself was basically probation, but it screwed up their lives for about 10 years, came up 14?years later in child custody, or was a possibility, to come up.
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Old 09-25-2012, 5:33 PM
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If the suspect had a picture ID and it returned clear when we ran them, we could, with a field sgt.'s ok, (which was a formality) cite them out on a promise to appear. We'd write the PĒ section on the same type of ticket we issued for VC violations.

So yes, in those instances, we'd let them go outside the store after citing and advising them to never enter any of their stores again or be arrested for trespassing.
I've never heard of that, but it makes sense. I wasn't loss prevention, but when I helped them I never ran into someone with an ID that was belonged to them. Most of the time they had no ID and even though there were consequences they're quite minor too someone who is not interested in being a productive member of society.

Unless they were on parole or probation it was kind of a big whoop to them.
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Old 09-25-2012, 6:08 PM
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I've never heard of that, but it makes sense. I wasn't loss prevention, but when I helped them I never ran into someone with an ID that was belonged to them. Most of the time they had no ID and even though there were consequences they're quite minor too someone who is not interested in being a productive member of society.

Unless they were on parole or probation it was kind of a big whoop to them.
You never heard of a field cite out?
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