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  #1  
Old 08-05-2012, 5:29 PM
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Default Lead-free 22lr

Hey fellas, since I'll be hunting in lead-free country opening weekend,I am taking my marlin 60 just in case I get a shot at some rabbits while I'm deer hunting. So I am assuming my 22lr ammo needs to be lead free also. Any suggestions on lead free 22lr ammo. It'll be my first time taking my Marlin 60 out....(just bought her like two months ago). Thanks for any info.
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2012, 5:54 PM
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You can use lead on Small game (rabbits, tree squirrels). You CANT use lead on Non-game (ground squirrels). It's all in the regs.
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Old 08-05-2012, 5:58 PM
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Oh cool. Guess I should read everything in the regs. Any suggestions on 22lr ammo.
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Old 08-05-2012, 6:07 PM
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I wouldn't mix them up.

If you're rabbit hunting with just the .22, you're ok with lead.

If you're deer hunting, you're not supposed to have any lead ammo with you. You MIGHT be able to convince the warden that the one gun is for deer, the other for rabbits, but he might still cite you anyway. It's a risk. Just make sure you don't have any deer hunting gear with you when rabbit hunting (game bag, bone saw, etc). That might make him think you're poaching with an illegal weapon/ammo.

Were you going to carry around 2 rifles or hope for the bunnies near camp?

You also might pi$$ off the other deer hunters in the area if you're running around popping rabbits with the .22.
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Last edited by olhunter; 08-05-2012 at 6:12 PM..
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Old 08-05-2012, 6:57 PM
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This may be FUD but I thought .22lr wasn't allowed while deer hunting?
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Old 08-05-2012, 8:14 PM
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This is exactly why I was asking for lead free 22lr, cuz I remember reading you aren't allowed to have any type of lead ammo while hunting in lead free zone.
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Old 08-05-2012, 8:16 PM
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And I'm not sure why I wouldn't be allowed to have a 22 while deer hunting, if I have my big caliber rifle and tags.
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Old 08-05-2012, 8:20 PM
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There are only 2 kinds that I know of, the Winchester and I think CCI. I've only used the WInchester. It is made of tin, lightweight (26 grains) and about 1600 FPS. Accuracy is not great, but its the only option. Big 5 carries it. I use it in the condor zone for ground squirrels.
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Old 08-05-2012, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
And I'm not sure why I wouldn't be allowed to have a 22 while deer hunting, if I have my big caliber rifle and tags.
What you are saying is totally logical, but remember that you live, shoot, and hunt in a state whose politicians and gun laws often defy logic.

Best of luck, and be safe.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:06 PM
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You have not clarified yet if you intend to carry 2 rifles in the field. But best bet is to leave the 22 back at camp. You dont need to shoot rabbits that bad. Save the rabbit hunting for after the deer hunting. Rabbit season is much longer than Deer season, there will be more opporitunities.
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Old 08-06-2012, 5:19 AM
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well, i was considering slinging the 22 on my back and hiking with it, but i guess it just makes better sense to leave it at camp and go try to shoot some rabbits after im done deer hunting for the day....
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devil83dog@hotmail.com View Post
well, i was considering slinging the 22 on my back and hiking with it, but i guess it just makes better sense to leave it at camp and go try to shoot some rabbits after im done deer hunting for the day....
Carry only what you NEED in the field. Real easy to over pack, especially if you pull the trigger on a deer, your payload just got 100+ pounds heavier. You dont want to be making excess noise and commotion if you are trying to hunt deer but end up running around willy nilly chasing rabbits.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:33 AM
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Yeah, I guess you're right. I can always hunt bugs bunny another time...
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:38 AM
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Not sure it's still this way - But 30+ years ago, in Missouri . . . during the deer season, all non-deer hunting was stopped. Claimed it was for safety. Glad we at least don't get that law out here!

I use the win tin .22lr's as well. They don't seem to feed as well for me and give a wider grouping.

Cheers!
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Old 08-06-2012, 1:08 PM
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The below quote is from this link:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunti...nformation.pdf
Quote:
What are the regulations and options for hunting with .22 caliber or smaller rimfire
firearms?
Rimfire firearms are not legal in California for hunting big game or for depredation killing
of big game animals (these are primarily deer and wild pig in condor range).
Rimfire firearms are legal for nongame animals (coyotes and ground squirrels primarily)
and for sport hunting of small game mammals [hares (jackrabbits), cottontail, and tree
squirrel]. However, for nongame animals the Commission has prohibited use of lead
projectiles in .22 rimfire or smaller firearms as part of this regulation change in condor
range.
The Commission has not addressed the issue of hunting small game mammals because
that section of the regulations was not “opened” for potential change. Therefore, hunters
can legally hunt jackrabbit, cottontail, and tree squirrel using lead projectiles, but not
ground squirrels in the same area. Part of the reasoning for this is that unlike nongame
animals that are hunted and usually left in the field, game species must be retrieved and
not wasted.
The Department and Commission are of the understanding that non-lead projectiles for
rimfire are not readily available or manufactured at this time and that the only non-lead
rimfire is in .22 caliber magnum, and not for the very popular .22 short, long, or long rifle.
Everybody talks chit about California and most other states have hunting and firearms laws that are far more restricting than ours. For example a separate permit is required to carry a firearm in PA while hunting, that's separate from the hunting license, and you can't hunt with a semiautomatic firearm, can't hunt on Sundays too. And read this example, in the all lax law state of Ohio (give me a brake) they have complicated and harsh public land restrictions, they can’t carry concealed while hunting unless they have a concealed carry permit and if they did they still can't use the concealed firearm to hunt with.
In our state of California we have an exception for licensed hunters that makes it legal to conceal carry unloaded while going to or from a hunting or fishing expedition, we can also carry loaded concealed while in the act of hunting or fishing and we can use it to hunt. We can also carry loaded concealed at a camp site, all that applies to areas where it is legal to discharge a firearm. Well this may all soon be changing. Our state is not as bad as you think, I could look up Missouri law, I know they are strict.

I'm proud of the Unitied State and California the state I was born in.

Last edited by tony270; 08-06-2012 at 1:10 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 1:30 PM
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Well put tony.....
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:35 AM
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AS long as your not in LA county use lead 22 lr for rabbits. Shotgun only in LA county.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
AS long as your not in LA county use lead 22 lr for rabbits. Shotgun only in LA county.
LA co is NOT shotgun only for rabbits. You just cant use a rifle or pistol for rabbits. You can still use a pellet gun, archery, crossbow, muzzle loader, or shotgun.
It is definitely a stupid rule though
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:38 AM
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public land, do what you want, but you won't make any friends out plinking around with a .22 during deer season, that's for sure.
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Old 08-07-2012, 1:05 PM
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He was talking about a 22 lr. Yes there are other means of take. I use a pellet gun near lake elizabeth & parkfield most of the time.
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Old 08-08-2012, 7:50 AM
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Went to Turners Outdoorsman yesterday, and the sales guy swears that you must use lead free 22lr in condor zone, said there is no where in the regs that say you can hunt small game with lead in condor zone. And then he says that any lead free 22lr (Winchester or CCI) is not enough to kill a rabbit cuz it's only 26gr.
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Old 08-08-2012, 8:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devil83dog@hotmail.com View Post
Went to Turners Outdoorsman yesterday, and the sales guy swears that you must use lead free 22lr in condor zone, said there is no where in the regs that say you can hunt small game with lead in condor zone. And then he says that any lead free 22lr (Winchester or CCI) is not enough to kill a rabbit cuz it's only 26gr.
That's AWESOME!
Dont ask those guys CHIT!
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Old 08-08-2012, 9:40 AM
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I say that the best thing to do is just go lead free for everything when you are hunting. Sure some rabbits you can use lead and same with tree squirrels but what about if a coyote comes your way or a unaware ground squirrel. Stick with lead free and you are safe.

Oh and the 22lr Winchester lead free works fine on rabbits, trust me.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
LA co is NOT shotgun only for rabbits. You just cant use a rifle or pistol for rabbits. You can still use a pellet gun, archery, crossbow, muzzle loader, or shotgun.
It is definitely a stupid rule though
heh heh. 58 cal muzzleloader. That's a tough rabbit!
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:42 AM
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Just went to bass pro. Bought the Winchester lead free 22lr. Can't seem to find the CCI lead free, might have to order some online.
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Old 08-08-2012, 1:14 PM
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Which Turners did you go to?
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Old 08-08-2012, 2:35 PM
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Turners in Norwalk, CA
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Old 08-08-2012, 2:48 PM
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Because a 22LR is not a legal method of take for big game, just don't attempt to take big game with it. But if you must incline to know the laws, here is what it says.

The Lead-Free Zone brochure says, specifically, you cannot have both lead projectile and a firearm capable of firing it. But again, that pertains to when you are taking big game.

If you have a 22LR and are hunting rabbits, you are not in the act of hunting big game, even if you have a big game tag in your possession.

IMO, you can have both rifles with you while hunting, but just don't have the 22LR in your hands while stalking a deer. Likewise, don't have your deer rifle in your hands while chasing rabbits. If you exercise common sense, you should be fine.

Quote:
California Code of regulations, title 14, section 353.
Methods Authorized for Taking Big Game:
“Except as otherwise provided, it is unlawful to possess
any projectile containing lead
in excess of the
amount permitted in subsection 353(h) and a firearm
capable of firing the projectile
while taking or attempting
to take any big game within the area described in
subsection 353(h).
The possession of a projectile containing
lead in excess of the amount allowed in subsection
353(h) without possessing a firearm capable of
firing the projectile is not a violation of this section.”
Quote:
353(h) Methods of take within the California condor range. Except as otherwise provided, it is unlawful to use or possess projectiles containing more than one percent lead by weight while taking or attempting to take any big game (as defined in Section 350, Title 14, CCR) in those areas described in Section 3004.5, Fish and Game Code.
Quote:
350. Big Game Defined.
“Big game” means the following: deer (genus Odocoileus), elk (genus Cervus), pronghorn antelope (genus Antilocapra), wild pig (feral pigs, European wild pigs and their hybrids (genus Sus), black bear (genus Ursus) and Nelson bighorn sheep (subspecies Ovis canadensis nelsoni) in the areas described in subsection 4902(b) of the Fish and Game Code.
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Old 08-08-2012, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NytWolf View Post
Because a 22LR is not a legal method of take for big game, just don't attempt to take big game with it. But if you must incline to know the laws, here is what it says.

The Lead-Free Zone brochure says, specifically, you cannot have both lead projectile and a firearm capable of firing it. But again, that pertains to when you are taking big game.

If you have a 22LR and are hunting rabbits, you are not in the act of hunting big game, even if you have a big game tag in your possession.

IMO, you can have both rifles with you while hunting, but just don't have the 22LR in your hands while stalking a deer. Likewise, don't have your deer rifle in your hands while chasing rabbits. If you exercise common sense, you should be fine.
Your correct about taking big game, but it also applies to Non-game animals. You can shoot rabbits and tree squirrels with lead. You cannot shot ground squirrels with lead.
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Old 08-15-2012, 2:11 AM
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I've read this entire threat up till this point. I've been in the position to enforce the law regarding hunting in LA county, specifically the Antelope Valley area. I'll be brief.

I don't know him, never met him, nor do I converse with him. .....but everything Dirty Dave said in this thread is 100% correct. Read what he said here and you'll be 100% legal regarding the the lead/hunting issue we're all talking about.

Guys, this stupid Condor zone/law thing ain't that difficult to interpret. DFG spells it all out in "dummy terms." Don't make the lead ban law more difficult than it is..... or isn't. It's all in black and white and doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what's legal and what isn't. Google is your friend.
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