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  #1  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:43 PM
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Default NIGHTFORCE VS. PREMIER

So I've pretty much decided on ordering the Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50mmF1 Riflescope Zerostop,250 MOA NP-RF1 C355 on monday morning. I currently have 2 Nightforce 2nd focal plane scopes at the moment and really love them. I'm pretty familiar with MOA and don't really have any experience with Mil/Mil setup. The only other scope I'm considering is the Premier Reticles 3-15 which is a Mil/Mil system. I'm not ruling it out but imagine since I'm more used to the MOA, the Mil/Mil would be difficult to get used to. I know it's all what your used to and there is no real advantage from one to the other. Is a Premier scope worth another $600 over the Nightforce? Just some friendly advice would be great if you have experience with these 2 scope manufacturers.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2012, 6:32 AM
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Both great scopes but the premier has nicer turrets, better glass and I personally like the gen II xr reticle better than anything nightforce has. Plus it is FFP but not everyone needs that. Plus the premier is made in the USA. I know has their new F1 that is US made but I'm not sure about the rest of their scopes. Both scopes are top notch but I'm sure you can guess which I'm saving for

edit: you are talking about the F1. I have no experience with the F1 but I can't imagine t is any different than your othe NF scopes other than being FFP
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Last edited by 707electrician; 04-01-2012 at 6:36 AM..
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Old 04-01-2012, 6:46 AM
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I love my Premier. It's a little heavy, but built like a tank!
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Old 04-01-2012, 7:58 AM
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I prefer the Nightforce because of 10 mil per rotation. Premier has better glass. They're both excellent.

You'll be surprised how easy it is to learn the mil system. It's a very easy switch and once you go mils you'll probably not go back.
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Old 04-01-2012, 8:00 AM
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Sorry just realized you're comparing the heritage and not the light tactical. If you're ok with the weight, the heritage is the better scope.
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Old 04-01-2012, 8:40 AM
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Yeah, I was looking at the heritage. I'm also in love with the locking levels to set the zero on the Premier! No tools needed. Do you need tools to set the zero stop on the premier? More love here for premier than I thought there would be
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Old 04-01-2012, 8:43 AM
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One more thing. If I went premier, what reticle would be the best for hunting, long distance shooting, and milling for range? Thanks for the replies.
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Old 04-02-2012, 8:58 PM
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I would go Premier because the glass is really top notch and the Gen 2 XR reticle is fine but very visible at low mag. In addition, the illumination is bright enough to be visible on a sunny day.
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2012, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skkeeter View Post
One more thing. If I went premier, what reticle would be the best for hunting, long distance shooting, and milling for range? Thanks for the replies.
I would have to vote for the GenII XR. All around great reticle.
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  #10  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:38 PM
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No, it's not worth the extra $600. I didn't even know Premier was still in business.

Last edited by RuggedJay; 04-03-2012 at 4:45 PM..
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Old 04-03-2012, 8:01 PM
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No, it's not worth the extra $600. I didn't even know Premier was still in business.
Have you owned both? Care to elaborate on why you think so? I only ask because so many others have praised the Premier. Now it looks like Premier offers an Moa/Moa version of their riflescope. Seems even more appealing except for the fact that I ordered the Nightforce yesterday from Euro Optics. If I run into problems with them I just might go with the Premier instead.
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Old 04-03-2012, 9:05 PM
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I've owned or currently own IOR, nightforce, vortex, leupold, S&B, USO, hensoldt, premier, etc.

I've owned 3 premier's. All had to go back for either turret or parallax issues, or both. I sold 2 and still have 1. It just came back from getting fixed a 2 weeks ago.

They are great scopes, if they stay working. Which sadly, I've not experienced that they do very long. There are 8 premier's in the group I shoot with. Of them 6 have made return trips to the factory. At $3000, this is disappointing. I only have about 400rnds through it since my latest 5-25 returned, so I can't say if it will hold up or not. Time will tell.

Of the 3 nightforce scopes I've owned, none had to go back.

Were I you, I'd give the USO SN3 3.2-17 a glance. I just got one and like it. Configured properly, they will match a premier on features with the exception of tool-less zero stop adjustment.

Were my only choice between the nightforce or premier right now, I'd go nightforce. The group I shoot with has been having premier's and S&B's go down left and right these last few weeks. It's really growing tiresome, paying $3,000+ for scopes and having them crap out in the middle of a session. Just this weekend the parallax quit working on another premier.

My first choice would be USO. They've had QC problems over the years, but their service is best in the business. With ALL top end scopes crapping out, it's important to have a fast and reliable service department backing you up. USO wins in that category, period. If you aren't familiar with their offerings, I just finished a review on the 3.2-17. Here it is, if you want to give it a look. If you call Scott @ Liberty Optics, he may be able to put together a nice deal for you on one. USO is really going to be coming on in 2012.

Did I mention that not only are they the "most American-made" high-end optic out there, but they are also in california. Brea, CA.

Last edited by Orkan; 04-03-2012 at 9:10 PM..
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2012, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orkan View Post
I've owned or currently own IOR, nightforce, vortex, leupold, S&B, USO, hensoldt, premier, etc.

I've owned 3 premier's. All had to go back for either turret or parallax issues, or both. I sold 2 and still have 1. It just came back from getting fixed a 2 weeks ago.

They are great scopes, if they stay working. Which sadly, I've not experienced that they do very long. There are 8 premier's in the group I shoot with. Of them 6 have made return trips to the factory. At $3000, this is disappointing. I only have about 400rnds through it since my latest 5-25 returned, so I can't say if it will hold up or not. Time will tell.

Of the 3 nightforce scopes I've owned, none had to go back.

Were I you, I'd give the USO SN3 3.2-17 a glance. I just got one and like it. Configured properly, they will match a premier on features with the exception of tool-less zero stop adjustment.

Were my only choice between the nightforce or premier right now, I'd go nightforce. The group I shoot with has been having premier's and S&B's go down left and right these last few weeks. It's really growing tiresome, paying $3,000+ for scopes and having them crap out in the middle of a session. Just this weekend the parallax quit working on another premier.

My first choice would be USO. They've had QC problems over the years, but their service is best in the business. With ALL top end scopes crapping out, it's important to have a fast and reliable service department backing you up. USO wins in that category, period. If you aren't familiar with their offerings, I just finished a review on the 3.2-17. Here it is, if you want to give it a look. If you call Scott @ Liberty Optics, he may be able to put together a nice deal for you on one. USO is really going to be coming on in 2012.

Did I mention that not only are they the "most American-made" high-end optic out there, but they are also in california. Brea, CA.
Thanks for the detailed review. Much appreciated. I'll take a look at the USO and really consider it if my order falls through.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2012, 4:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orkan View Post
I've owned or currently own IOR, nightforce, vortex, leupold, S&B, USO, hensoldt, premier, etc.

I've owned 3 premier's. All had to go back for either turret or parallax issues, or both. I sold 2 and still have 1. It just came back from getting fixed a 2 weeks ago.

They are great scopes, if they stay working. Which sadly, I've not experienced that they do very long. There are 8 premier's in the group I shoot with. Of them 6 have made return trips to the factory. At $3000, this is disappointing. I only have about 400rnds through it since my latest 5-25 returned, so I can't say if it will hold up or not. Time will tell.

Of the 3 nightforce scopes I've owned, none had to go back.

Were I you, I'd give the USO SN3 3.2-17 a glance. I just got one and like it. Configured properly, they will match a premier on features with the exception of tool-less zero stop adjustment.

Were my only choice between the nightforce or premier right now, I'd go nightforce. The group I shoot with has been having premier's and S&B's go down left and right these last few weeks. It's really growing tiresome, paying $3,000+ for scopes and having them crap out in the middle of a session. Just this weekend the parallax quit working on another premier.

My first choice would be USO. They've had QC problems over the years, but their service is best in the business. With ALL top end scopes crapping out, it's important to have a fast and reliable service department backing you up. USO wins in that category, period. If you aren't familiar with their offerings, I just finished a review on the 3.2-17. Here it is, if you want to give it a look. If you call Scott @ Liberty Optics, he may be able to put together a nice deal for you on one. USO is really going to be coming on in 2012.

Did I mention that not only are they the "most American-made" high-end optic out there, but they are also in california. Brea, CA.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones...I've never had a problem with my Premier 3-15x54. I've now had it for nearly 4-years.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2012, 8:16 AM
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This is what I'm talking about. If you wanna pay 3000+ for a scope that will breakdown and need repair go ahead and buy a Premier or S&B.
I got better thibgs to do with my tine rgan waiting for customer service to make things right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orkan View Post
I've owned or currently own IOR, nightforce, vortex, leupold, S&B, USO, hensoldt, premier, etc.

I've owned 3 premier's. All had to go back for either turret or parallax issues, or both. I sold 2 and still have 1. It just came back from getting fixed a 2 weeks ago.

They are great scopes, if they stay working. Which sadly, I've not experienced that they do very long. There are 8 premier's in the group I shoot with. Of them 6 have made return trips to the factory. At $3000, this is disappointing. I only have about 400rnds through it since my latest 5-25 returned, so I can't say if it will hold up or not. Time will tell.

Of the 3 nightforce scopes I've owned, none had to go back.

Were I you, I'd give the USO SN3 3.2-17 a glance. I just got one and like it. Configured properly, they will match a premier on features with the exception of tool-less zero stop adjustment.

Were my only choice between the nightforce or premier right now, I'd go nightforce. The group I shoot with has been having premier's and S&B's go down left and right these last few weeks. It's really growing tiresome, paying $3,000+ for scopes and having them crap out in the middle of a session. Just this weekend the parallax quit working on another premier.

My first choice would be USO. They've had QC problems over the years, but their service is best in the business. With ALL top end scopes crapping out, it's important to have a fast and reliable service department backing you up. USO wins in that category, period. If you aren't familiar with their offerings, I just finished a review on the 3.2-17. Here it is, if you want to give it a look. If you call Scott @ Liberty Optics, he may be able to put together a nice deal for you on one. USO is really going to be coming on in 2012.

Did I mention that not only are they the "most American-made" high-end optic out there, but they are also in california. Brea, CA.

Last edited by RuggedJay; 04-04-2012 at 8:19 AM..
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2012, 8:30 AM
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First I've heard of problems with the premiers
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Old 04-04-2012, 9:20 AM
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First I've heard of problems with the premiers
If you talk to people that put thousands of rounds per year down range, you'll start to learn what really works, and what doesn't. Thus far, I've heard of more premier's going down than I care to remember.

Most people don't use their scopes nearly enough to make an informed statement on quality. Combine that with many forums censoring bad statements about products, and it can be very hard to get real information before spending $3,000.

Once the hensoldt 3-26 ships, premier will be a distant memory for me.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orkan View Post
I've owned or currently own IOR, nightforce, vortex, leupold, S&B, USO, hensoldt, premier, etc.

I've owned 3 premier's. All had to go back for either turret or parallax issues, or both. I sold 2 and still have 1. It just came back from getting fixed a 2 weeks ago.

They are great scopes, if they stay working. Which sadly, I've not experienced that they do very long. There are 8 premier's in the group I shoot with. Of them 6 have made return trips to the factory. At $3000, this is disappointing. I only have about 400rnds through it since my latest 5-25 returned, so I can't say if it will hold up or not. Time will tell.

Of the 3 nightforce scopes I've owned, none had to go back.

Were I you, I'd give the USO SN3 3.2-17 a glance. I just got one and like it. Configured properly, they will match a premier on features with the exception of tool-less zero stop adjustment.

Were my only choice between the nightforce or premier right now, I'd go nightforce. The group I shoot with has been having premier's and S&B's go down left and right these last few weeks. It's really growing tiresome, paying $3,000+ for scopes and having them crap out in the middle of a session. Just this weekend the parallax quit working on another premier.

My first choice would be USO. They've had QC problems over the years, but their service is best in the business. With ALL top end scopes crapping out, it's important to have a fast and reliable service department backing you up. USO wins in that category, period. If you aren't familiar with their offerings, I just finished a review on the 3.2-17. Here it is, if you want to give it a look. If you call Scott @ Liberty Optics, he may be able to put together a nice deal for you on one. USO is really going to be coming on in 2012.

Did I mention that not only are they the "most American-made" high-end optic out there, but they are also in california. Brea, CA.


+1.

I also have these brands mentioned. I still have them. Luckily, mine have nad zero issues. I can say though on one note, My Premier and S&B scopes, do seem to cut through mirage quite a bit better than the other scopes. I only noticed this recently when I was getting ready for a shooting session. If you want a no frills scope that works very very well, I think the Nightforce fits you. If you want a different reticule and little better optics, go Premier. But if you would like to talor make your own scope and have it almost the way you want it, USO is the way to go. Just to let you know, My SN- USO did cost over 3K with all the bells and whistles. Small and compact but it does fit my bill.

Either way you go, you'll be very happy with your purchase. I am with mine.

Good luck, hope this helps a little.
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Old 04-04-2012, 5:00 PM
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Thanks again guys for more input. My Nightforce F1 showed up at my Po box today. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. Looks like I made the right choice!
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Old 04-06-2012, 8:09 AM
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I'm late to this thread. I'm sure OP will be very happy with his choice.

I did want to point out that Premier did in the past have that parralex problem which result from people overtighting scope rings and probably combined with the stacking of tolerances which caused the parralex to fail. As I understand it that issue was addressed with a change in machine or something like that, not sure exactly.

I have both nightforce and premier scopes. I prefer Premier for reasons mentioned above and other advantages I find when using the Gen 2 reticle.

I like them so much I bought two 5-25x56 Premier Heritage scopes. I had an order in with Alex at Europtics for two S&B but cancelled it in favor of the premiers.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
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I did want to point out that Premier did in the past have that parralex problem which result from people overtighting scope rings
Over-tightening scope rings my patoot. Everyone I know that has had problems with turrets/parallax used seekonk or wheeler torque wrenches set to the appropriate spec to torque their rings.

Does over-torquing rings cause an elevation turret to wobble around resulting in a .3-.5 mil reticle movement?

That does seem like premier's M.O. though. If something breaks, blame it on the user. If they've fixed it now... great. What about the last 3 years where me and other guys have been forking over $2550-$3000 for scopes that fail at an alarming rate? They'll need several more years of low return rates before I ever give them a chance at my money again.
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Old 04-06-2012, 2:36 PM
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Is it just you and people you know that have had problems? I can't find any other complaints about premier on the web
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Old 04-06-2012, 5:08 PM
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Is it just you and people you know that have had problems? I can't find any other complaints about premier on the web
You must not be looking very hard. People complaining of their premier not working can be found ALL OVER the web. 10 second google search turned up this, among many many others.

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...00#Post3230324

I run my scopes hard. ALL have failed me at some point, in some way. So it really drives home what is important. I want a company that's going to step up in front of it and make it right when things fail. USO can't even be compared to premier in that way.

I won't even begin to get into the ****storm of nightmarish PR incidents that have surrounded chris thomas and premier heritage scopes since their inception.

Look, I still own a premier, and like it when it works. However, as soon as something more capable comes along, I'll sell it at a $500 loss without even thinking about it. The new hensoldt for instance, will make owning a premier completely pointless.

The group I shoot with has more money in optics combined than most people spend on their house. That's a hell of a large sample size. While a website like snipershide has a large collection of doorknobs, there are a ton of competition shooters there. Among them you'll find a great many that will never ever own another premier product. You won't have to look very hard to find them.
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Old 04-09-2012, 7:23 PM
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Orkan...your website, primalrights.com is a good one! I also like your website sponsors liberty optics and US Optics...too!

Nice Interview with the CEO of US Optics!

Last edited by GoBig; 04-09-2012 at 7:25 PM..
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:40 PM
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Thanks.

Yes, its quite common that I'll approach companies I believe in, to see if they'd like to advertise. I don't allow companies that I don't believe in to advertise with me.
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