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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 01-14-2012, 10:16 AM
Zippiot Zippiot is offline
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Default .22lr browning 1919 beltfed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3htG_...eature=related

Almost looks legal, with the wind-up trigger...
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:19 AM
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Multi burst trigger devices are a FELONY in CA. Why would you think otherwise? Other than that, the gun itself can be completely legal in Ca.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2012, 10:20 AM
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I didnt count the rpm but it looked like 1 shot per rotation per barrel, which is what I was "told" the law was a while back...

Never assume, but while on the subject of beltfed .22lr's.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz9fw...eature=related
beltfed .22lr AR15!
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2012, 10:23 AM
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Here is a full-auto of the upper on an M16 lower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nrom...eature=related
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:07 AM
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You are right! NEVER ASSuME! Have you ever read the laws yourself? I would NOT NEVER, I MEAN NEVER take anyone's word for what a law says or means. I've never seen anything about "one round per rotation" in any Ca law text. This is clearly a FELONY crank in California.

Belt fed rimfires are no different than belt fed centerfire guns. These Tipton or Lakeside guns can be legal in Ca. The original mini 1919 has always been transfered as a handgun though. So, it would be advisable to either make the 1919 into a legal long gun like one member here has done or, if it is going to stay a legal handgun, it will need to be configured in such a way as to comply with handgun AW laws.
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
Here is a full-auto of the upper on an M16 lower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nrom...eature=related
You mean "Here is an upper on a Full Auto lower" I don't think there is a difference between FA and SA with their uppers. I think it's just the lower that will dictate how it fires.
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Multi burst trigger devices are a FELONY in CA. Why would you think otherwise? Other than that, the gun itself can be completely legal in Ca.
That's kind of confusing because his setup required a 1/2 turn for every discharge. Stop cranking and the gun stops firing. There is no multi-burst going on like an uncontrolled bump-fire. Now you could argue it speeds up the semi-auto rate of fire, but that is also open to interpretation of how quickly you can vibrate your finger on the trigger while not caring about where the bullets spray.

I'm trying to figure out how the high-cap belt of ammo is legal. I didn't know rim-fire were exempt.
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:38 AM
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It's not confusing at all. The law doesn't make any distinction between controllable multiburst devices and less controllable ones. This gun is designed and produced with a trigger and the crank is an add on trigger activator. The fact is that ALL are FELONIES in California.

+10 round belts are not exempt from Ca laws. But, some of us do legally posses them in Ca.Years ago, I for one, bought some links and made up a belt for display. Maybe someday, I'll end up with a gun to go with it. Anyway, Lakeside does make links and even ten round cloth belts. If you didn't buy a +10 round belt or two legally, you can still use 10 round belts if you want to. If you end up with a 1919 that is legally a handgun, you will be restricted to 10 round belts and some sort of magazine lock.
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
You mean "Here is an upper on a Full Auto lower" I don't think there is a difference between FA and SA with their uppers. I think it's just the lower that will dictate how it fires.
Actually a quick trip to their website specifies FA and Semi uppers, with about a $100 difference between the 2.

Similar to an M16/M4 bolt vs an AR-15. Yes they are "interchangeable" but the latter was not designed with full auto/burst in mind.
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Old 01-14-2012, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
You mean "Here is an upper on a Full Auto lower" I don't think there is a difference between FA and SA with their uppers. I think it's just the lower that will dictate how it fires.
Actually there are a few parts in the upper/bolt carrier that are different for FA. Basically, the auto trip to fire it after it fully goes into battery. Some guns that can be as simple as a groove cut it the bolt others have a pin or lever that works with the parts in the lower. I don't know exactly which ways the are doing it on the Razorback, or even the earlier more expensive LM6, but I do know they are modified to go FA. The LM6 was originally made for FA guns. The Razorback was developed to be cheaper for SA guns but as soon as it hit the market the was a big demand for it to be modified for FA guns too.

As for the mini 1919's while CA has in the past called them handguns, the Fed's call it a title 1 firearm. I am not a lawyer. I did not want to chance when I got mine so I made the barrel longer (16.5") and pinned the tripod so that it would only transverse @30 degrees to keep the OAL >26". Simple mods and took the grey out of it for me.

As for the crank. That is a homemade mod by the shooter. He even posted plans for it on the Lakeside form. It has a two lob cam meaning it fires twice per turn of the crank. And sadly, CA is one of three states where that is illegal.
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Old 01-14-2012, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50BMGBOB View Post

As for the crank. That is a homemade mod by the shooter. He even posted plans for it on the Lakeside form. It has a two lob cam meaning it fires twice per turn of the crank. And sadly, CA is one of three states where that is illegal.
So 1 shot per crank would be legal?
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Old 01-14-2012, 6:38 PM
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neat little toy!
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Old 01-14-2012, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippiot View Post
So 1 shot per crank would be legal?
I am not a lawyer, but I would still would not do it. The law doesn't state how many lobs you can or can't have or if turning the crank one rotation is activating it or if as long as you continue to turn it it is one activation. Besides, I can squeeze the trigger as fast as they where cranking it.

Here is the CA law so you can read for yourself:


ARTICLE 2. UNLAWFUL CARRYING AND POSSESSION OF WEAPONS
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

.....

(23) As used in this section, a "multiburst trigger activator" means one of the following devices:
(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
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Old 01-14-2012, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50BMGBOB View Post
I am not a lawyer, but I would still would not do it. The law doesn't state how many lobs you can or can't have or if turning the crank one rotation is activating it or if as long as you continue to turn it it is one activation. Besides, I can squeeze the trigger as fast as they where cranking it.

Here is the CA law so you can read for yourself:


ARTICLE 2. UNLAWFUL CARRYING AND POSSESSION OF WEAPONS
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

.....

(23) As used in this section, a "multiburst trigger activator" means one of the following devices:
(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
My favorite is the one about the undetectable firearm....how would they ever know you had one
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Old 01-14-2012, 7:42 PM
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woah, I cant have nunchaku?
Belt buckle knives....

Notice it says nothing about rockets

Well "increases rate of fire" doesnt seem like it could be proven in court.

But none of us are lawyers right?

unconventional pistol......like.....?
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:11 PM
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Old 01-15-2012, 4:25 AM
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yes, yes, 1000000x YES!!

That much lead dust cant be healthy...
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