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  #1  
Old 01-05-2012, 9:08 PM
Rico911 Rico911 is offline
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Default Beretta 92FS to M&P 9MM

It looks like my Dept is going to start issuing the M&P 9MM in exchange for the old 92FS after 22 years. It's going to take about 2 years to convert evryone (about 9000 of us). The cool thing is its going to be issued with a Surefire X300 and pressure switch. The bad thing is a lot of co-workers bought their own M&P's recently and I just bought a Sig P226 9MM.

My Dept authorized the USP 45, Ruger P90, S&W 4506/4566, Sig P220 45, P226, P228, and P229 9mms for alternative carry. Used to carry the USP 45, now the P226 9mm for weight and capacity reasons.

Question - Is the 226 a better gun than the M&P?
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2012, 9:16 PM
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I test fired the Sig and the M&P before I retired from LASD. I liked the SW better, and shot it better than the Sig. But, I liked the Sig too.
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2012, 9:50 PM
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Along the lines of what Ron was saying - I would say "better" is whichever gun you shoot better with...
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Old 01-05-2012, 9:59 PM
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Make sure the weapon will fire with the light attached. We had problems with lights attached to Glocks. It was to the point where no one had lights attached to the Glocks. I'm sure your range staff will see to that, but ask them.
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Old 01-06-2012, 4:50 AM
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Lol. It's the County. Don't beleive anything until it actually happens. I'm sure Ron and Retired can both attest to that.

However, if it does actually happen as planned, as much as I love my Beretta, I will definitely be switching to the M&P 9. Beretta will be purchased, and added to the collection.
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He is an anti-gun guy and he said. "Well, you can't eat ammunition". I replied with "When I'm starving to death with a case of ammunition, who's door do you think I am going to knock on?"
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Old 01-06-2012, 5:46 PM
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It looks like it's going to happen. The decision has been made and conversion training is already being planned, though not finalized...there are details yet to be determined or filtered down.

The lights haven't caused any problems and the guns all seem to run really well. Both my county M&P and my personal one have digested thousands of rounds with a mounted X300. Ultimately the decision was made due to the desire to issue weapon-lights. When all is said and done, it will cost almost the same to issue a new pistol (M&P)/rig as it would to get rails, holsters, and lights for the Beretta.

I'll be happily getting an M&P and I'll be buying my Beretta. I think Berettas are great guns, but the M&P is simpler and works better with my gimpy finger.
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2012, 6:01 PM
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I was able to buy my revolver when we went to the Beretta, and my Beretta when I retired. I bought a M&P 9 before I retired, with the intention of making it my duty weapon before I got hurt. My last duty weapon was my H&K P2000.

Because of its size, it takes about 2 years to convert the county. With the Beretta, they started with specialized units, SEB, OSS, etc. Then Academy and patrol school classes, along with active FTOs. Then they went by stations, one from each field ops region at a time, until they were all done. Then anyone left in the courts or custody if they hadn't yet gone to patrol school. Takes a while.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2012, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico911 View Post
It looks like my Dept is going to start issuing the M&P 9MM in exchange for the old 92FS after 22 years.
June 1989 was a long time ago. Back in the revolver days I got a new revolver every six months. If you do not like it get something else, you are making good money. I liked the Beretta but as soon as the S&W 4506 was approved I got that.

Of course in retirement I carry a Colt Gold Cup .45

Stay safe
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2012, 7:40 PM
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Were are supposed to go to the P226 e2 from the usp 40 soon as well. I really like both guns. I had a p226 when I worked for Sac SD. If we could carry our own, I would carry the M&P for the cost savings.

On another note, I just mounted my XS sights on my XDM9 3.8... They are awesome! I then capped the day off with 6 malfunctions out of 50 rounds with my duty weapon... this has been a problem for 15+ months now... I'm gonna order a holster for my XD and just carry it. They can either send me home or fix the issue. I'm tired of waiting.
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  #10  
Old 01-07-2012, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico911 View Post
It looks like my Dept is going to start issuing the M&P 9MM in exchange for the old 92FS after 22 years. It's going to take about 2 years to convert evryone (about 9000 of us). The cool thing is its going to be issued with a Surefire X300 and pressure switch. The bad thing is a lot of co-workers bought their own M&P's recently and I just bought a Sig P226 9MM.

My Dept authorized the USP 45, Ruger P90, S&W 4506/4566, Sig P220 45, P226, P228, and P229 9mms for alternative carry. Used to carry the USP 45, now the P226 9mm for weight and capacity reasons.

Question - Is the 226 a better gun than the M&P?
After 20 years of this job, I definitely concur that the best gun for you is the one you shoot best. Personally, if you love the P226, stick with it. The down side, is that if you're in a shooting, you will be without it for a bit...

I tried the M&P's, but couldn't warm to the trigger. I hear they do break in and smooth out, as the .45 version I borrowed a bit ago showed.
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  #11  
Old 01-07-2012, 10:49 PM
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They have already issued the m&p to the last few academy classes that have gone through. I am hoping that they will allow me to purchase my beretta when I get issued the m&p but I was told they wouldnt as long as the berettas were still being used
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2012, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brl0301 View Post
They have already issued the m&p to the last few academy classes that have gone through. I am hoping that they will allow me to purchase my beretta when I get issued the m&p but I was told they wouldnt as long as the berettas were still being used
I was told that they will. I think you will pay maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of $365 or so.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2012, 8:38 AM
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Yesterday I was at the IDPA match @ SLOSA. I shot an M&P that had Apex Tactical Specialties' trigger kit in it.

Amazing

My 92fs has a super sweet trigger on it, but that M&P's blows it away.

From what I heard from one of the Apex people at the match, they are producing thousands of these kits for LE departments all over the country up to and including the FBI.

Apex Tactical Specialties

.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2012, 9:58 AM
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RE: APEX

LASD doesn't currently allow changing the internals. Never say never but the current policy allows for some external modifications like night sights or laser grips but little more.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:16 AM
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Does Apex offer LE pricing?

ETA: Jon at Apex said they are Not currently set up for LE/Mil pricing but Brownells is...

Last edited by Samuelx; 01-10-2012 at 2:33 PM..
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  #16  
Old 01-08-2012, 1:33 PM
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The M&P will be my next purchase. I could never warm up to the long DA pull followed by the SA squeeze.
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  #17  
Old 01-08-2012, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choprzrul View Post
Yesterday I was at the IDPA match @ SLOSA. I shot an M&P that had Apex Tactical Specialties' trigger kit in it.

Amazing

My 92fs has a super sweet trigger on it, but that M&P's blows it away.

From what I heard from one of the Apex people at the match, they are producing thousands of these kits for LE departments all over the country up to and including the FBI.

Apex Tactical Specialties

.
I installed the Apex DCAEK and RAM in my M&P .40 fs the last time I was CONUS visiting my parents during the holiday. With the proper tools and a little bit of mechanical knowledge, it was very easy and made the trigger and reset a world of difference. Randy Lee made a fantastic product, and has made my M&P my favorite pistol for now.
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  #18  
Old 01-08-2012, 2:28 PM
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@ CaliTheKid

LAPD wouldn't incorporate an FBI approved/implemented mod?

I was talking about a department armorer doing the mods before issue, not an individual case-by-case basis.

.
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  #19  
Old 01-08-2012, 2:50 PM
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We carry Sig 226's in .40, albeit without lights or any mods whatsoever beyond grips. Fantastic weapon. Heavy enough to be used as a club if you run out of ammo. I'd carry that over a glock or M&P any day.
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2012, 5:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choprzrul View Post
@ CaliTheKid

LAPD wouldn't incorporate an FBI approved/implemented mod?

I was talking about a department armorer doing the mods before issue, not an individual case-by-case basis.

.
I don't know about LAPD but LASD would not approve a mod because the FBI did it.
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  #21  
Old 01-08-2012, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choprzrul View Post
...LAPD wouldn't incorporate an FBI approved/implemented mod?...
No. LAPD does all its own ballistic and firearms testing. No internal modifications are allowed to issued handguns.
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2012, 5:55 PM
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I've been carrying the
M&P 9mm with a TLR-1 for about 1 1/2 years now. Its a nice upgrade from the Beretta. My county Beretta is beat all to hell but I'll buy it for old time's sake.
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  #23  
Old 01-08-2012, 8:45 PM
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My county Beretta cost me $370 when I retired last March and came with two mags.
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Old 01-09-2012, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
My county Beretta cost me $370 when I retired last March and came with two mags.
That seems like a fair enough deal. I just sold my personal one a while back for a lil over 500. Of course it was in much better shape than the one I carry every day
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
My county Beretta cost me $370 when I retired last March and came with two mags.
Prices have gone up since I retired 8yrs. ago as I only paid $300 and two mags and mine was newer than yours Ron.

I tried to get a third mag, but the clerk said no. This is when she had a drawer pulled out that must have had 30-40 turned in mags just sitting there. I asked her why. She said that is what they told me. I told her I'd be willing to pay for it, but she repeated herself.

I found out about a year later it had something to do with a resale license and the IRS. Beretta furnished two 15 round mags and the dept. bought the third one, so there were some tax issues they didn't want to deal with evidently.

I should have been buying 15 round mags and stacking them high prior to retirement. Kes, you need a kicking oneself in the butt icon.
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Old 01-10-2012, 1:28 PM
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The M&P is much superior weapons system than a Sig Sauer. I have several Sigs and a S&W MP .40 and would in a heart beat use the MP as my duty gun if allowed. My MP gun also has the Apex parts in it and I had the beavertail chopped off.
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Old 01-10-2012, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 556fmj View Post
The M&P is much superior weapons system than a Sig Sauer. I have several Sigs and a S&W MP .40 and would in a heart beat use the MP as my duty gun if allowed. My MP gun also has the Apex parts in it and I had the beavertail chopped off.
Is it superior out of the box or because of the Apex and the chopped beavertail?

"I" can shoot my stock 226R and 92F more accurately than the "stock" M&P9. However, I'm still planning on getting transitioned to the M&P to get the new gun. The county can keep my 1989 issue 92F with tens of thousands of rounds through it. It's an awesome gun and work horse....but not worth $370

The light, now THAT was a good decision....!
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Old 01-10-2012, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one417 View Post
Is it superior out of the box or because of the Apex and the chopped beavertail?

"I" can shoot my stock 226R and 92F more accurately than the "stock" M&P9. However, I'm still planning on getting transitioned to the M&P to get the new gun. The county can keep my 1989 issue 92F with tens of thousands of rounds through it. It's an awesome gun and work horse....but not worth $370

The light, now THAT was a good decision....!
Buy your Beretta. You will eventually regret it. When we did the revolver to 92f conversion, I knew several guys who didn't buy theirs. They all regretted it later.
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2012, 7:42 PM
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Yea...It's history. You'll need to save some extra bucks for an Ithaca 37 too.
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Old 01-10-2012, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Buy your Beretta. You will eventually regret it. When we did the revolver to 92f conversion, I knew several guys who didn't buy theirs. They all regretted it later.
I do regret no purchasing my revolver after the Beretta conversion. It was brand new, stainless and stamp "LASD" when I got it in the academy. I kick myself for not doing it then ($125). I would pay that for my issue 92F. I'm just not emotionaly attached to it...$370 for a 23 year old gun!!!!!

Now, the Ithaca......I'm in and anxiously waiting.
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Old 01-10-2012, 9:12 PM
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I heard a rumor awhile back that it was Not likely that the Ithacas will be sold - something about the time it would take to ensure all the guns were back in their original configurations... ? The vast majority of the Ithacas I've seen are beat to hell. I did, however, one time see 4 really nice specimens in the hands of a nameless sergeant who was bringing them to/from BC armory - they looked like "marine" models (black synthetic stocks, extended mag tubes, stainless all around) and they looked brand spanking new! I would definitely be interested in buying one of those!
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Old 01-10-2012, 9:46 PM
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Too many of the Ithicas are NFA guns. Once an NFA gun, aleays an NFA gun.

I picked up a beautiful specimen of an Ithica 37 back in the 80's. It is almost like new to this day. It has the rifle sights, parkerized finish, and the wood stocks are about 98%.

One of those I will never sell.
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Old 01-11-2012, 4:33 AM
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IMHO,

$370 is too much for a beat up Beretta when cop shops sell new ones for around $500. However I'll buy it for nostalgia and heirloom reasons, begrudgingly.

The 2 magazine rule is lame because they came with 3. I am not all surprised to hear of logistics refusing to give/sell Retired that 3rd magazine. This is the same place that charged me $20 for my missing $2 made in China helmet bag when I switched to the new Kevlar ones they issue now.

I never liked Ithaca shotguns. The only time I deployed 1 in the field before the 870 transition it jammed up on me (Yes I did the pre-shift PITA disassembly/inspection).

Boy do I wish I'd had the chance to buy an old department wheelgun however! Weren't they 19/66 .357's ?

Slightly off topic, what I REALLY regret is not buying a Millenium badge. At the time I didn't like the way they looked and they were expensive so I didn't bother. What a dumb decision that was!
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Old 01-11-2012, 5:31 AM
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Yea...It's history. You'll need to save some extra bucks for an Ithaca 37 too.
As much as I want an Ithaca, its probably not gonna happen. They are still having a hard time locating all of them. And apparently, they can't begin to sell them until they are all accounted for.
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During Y2K my neighbor and I were talking and he said he had a basement full of water and canned food. He asked if I had stocked up and I said that I had. I told him I bought a 12 guage shotgun, a .308 rifle and several bricks of .22 ammo.

He is an anti-gun guy and he said. "Well, you can't eat ammunition". I replied with "When I'm starving to death with a case of ammunition, who's door do you think I am going to knock on?"
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Old 01-11-2012, 7:40 AM
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Bobby, the wheel guns were Model 15's in blue steel and Model 67's in stainless just before the Beretta Conversion.

The Beretta's came from the factory with two magazines, and the county bought the third one to issue.

I never had an issue with the Ithica, and I deployed it many times, including one firefight against three armed suspects. One had an AK and got off the first shot.
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Old 01-11-2012, 9:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Bobby, the wheel guns were Model 15's in blue steel and Model 67's in stainless just before the Beretta Conversion.

The Beretta's came from the factory with two magazines, and the county bought the third one to issue.

I never had an issue with the Ithica, and I deployed it many times, including one firefight against three armed suspects. One had an AK and got off the first shot.
Thanks for that info Ron. For me, never having yet been on that proverbial 2 way firing range, I'll take your endorsement of the Ithaca as gospel! I'd still love to have gotten one of those wheelguns, especially if it was stamped with LASD on the side. From what gather from old videos, it seems some Deps upgraded to 686's, often with 6" barrels. Having 18 rounds total on your person sure would encourage good marksmanship and ammo conservation. I know a lot of people that are fans of the Ithaca, and I'm sure that old warhorse has saved many a coppers hide in action, I just never personally liked them. We used them in the academy and there were still a few left in the station armory. In fact my FTO specifically instructed me to set up the car with the Ithaca, not the 870.
Thanks for your insight and input.

Last edited by Bobby Ricigliano; 01-11-2012 at 9:12 AM..
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 556fmj View Post
The M&P is much superior weapons system than a Sig Sauer. I have several Sigs and a S&W MP .40 and would in a heart beat use the MP as my duty gun if allowed. My MP gun also has the Apex parts in it and I had the beavertail chopped off.
I wouldn't say it too loud. I had an M&P 9mm and sold it later. Superior or not, it is personal preference. I still prefer my Sig P226. It fits in my hands better and feels better. If you modify your gun to feel better, it is good. The department guns cannot be modified.
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Old 01-11-2012, 1:16 PM
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We have gone somewhat off topic by discussing the revolver and 92f exchange and whether the Ithaca will be available or not. But, since this seems to be a LASD thread, I'll allow it and will even add to it.

Sinc I'm old, I was issued the S&W Model 15, blued .38 caliber 4" barrel revolver. When we switched to the 92f, I wanted to buy one of the Model 67 in SS, but the rule was, you had to buy the gun issued to you. Even tho I could see a drawer full of the SS guns that obviously had been turned in, the clerk said I couldn't do it. Dang bureacracy.

If they get around to selling the Ithacas, I hope to buy one so I have a complete set of guns from the dept. Yes, I realize the chances of obtaining one of the shotguns I may have used from the 3 stations I worked, is slim to none, that is fine. I actually wouldn't know it if did anyway since, with the exception of Lkd., the gun wasn't assigned to the car, so I used different ones. I just want the Ithaca. Perhaps I'll end up with the one I checked out when I rode at Firestone as a cadet for a week. The first day, after checking it out and giving it to the deputy, he chambered a round and it fired.

Thankfully I was not the one holding it when all of the deputies, guns in hand streamed out of the station asking, "Was it the cadet, was it the cadet."

I liked it because being lefty, it was nice to have it eject/load from the bottom.
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Old 01-11-2012, 3:07 PM
Samuelx Samuelx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Slightly off topic, what I REALLY regret is not buying a Millenium badge. At the time I didn't like the way they looked and they were expensive so I didn't bother. What a dumb decision that was!
You mean this Knott's Berry Farm badge?

I bit the bullet on one - it's now encased in a small block of acrylic or something like that and just sits around in my office at home not doing anything productive... lol
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Old 01-11-2012, 4:36 PM
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BoJackUSMC BoJackUSMC is offline
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hummm... I live nearby Knott's Berry Farm.. maybe I should apply for job there so I can wear that cool badge
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