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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-11-2011, 12:00 PM
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Default Gov. Brown is no fool

Gerry Brown is a chameleon of sorts. By signing the anti-gun bills he can pander to his base, while at the same time serve us up a beautiful pitch. It's up to us to take that pitch and knock it outta the park. There is a silver lining to that dark cloud. As Gene always says "chess, not checkers." I think the Governor plays chess too, and he's not sitting across from us.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:03 PM
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umm ok
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
Gerry Brown is a chameleon of sorts. By signing the anti-gun bills he can pander to his base, while at the same time serve us up a beautiful pitch. It's up to us to take that pitch and knock it outta the park. There is a silver lining to that dark cloud. As Gene always says "chess, not checkers." I think the Governor plays chess too, and he's not sitting across from us.
I wouldn't read into it quite that much. Brown's 2A position is basically understand and support, but with "common sense" gun control like the type we have here in CA. The UOC bill was signed because the police chiefs convinced him and he went along with long gun reg because the HG system is already in place. Judge a man by his actions, not by suppositions.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
Gerry Brown is a chameleon of sorts. By signing the anti-gun bills he can pander to his base, while at the same time serve us up a beautiful pitch. It's up to us to take that pitch and knock it outta the park. There is a silver lining to that dark cloud. As Gene always says "chess, not checkers." I think the Governor plays chess too, and he's not sitting across from us.
Wrong. Brown is 100% against gun rights. Those of you who think that the ban on unloaded open carry will lead to a "shall issue" regime in California for carry permits are simply wrong too. All of Brown's actions evidence a deep hostility to gun rights in common with all Democrats. And these people can pass 20 anti-gun laws for every one that we get overturned or weakened in the courts, which is exactly what is happening.

Keep voting Democrat and you will destroy what little gun rights we have left in California.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:05 PM
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Wow...just, wow. You guys sure do see what you want to see. While Brown could certainly be worse, he is no friend to gun rights. He just passed legislation that we have been fighting tooth and nail in this state for as long as I have been into guns (registration of long guns) and you sing his praises.

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Old 10-11-2011, 12:05 PM
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Not sure I agree, but I'll take the lemonade if we can get the sugar and water to add to the lemons.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:09 PM
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I wouldn't read into it quite that much. Brown's 2A position is basically understand and support, but with "common sense" gun control like the type we have here in CA. The UOC bill was signed because the police chiefs convinced him and he went along with long gun reg because the HG system is already in place. Judge a man by his actions, not by suppositions.
x1000 Could not agree more.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:09 PM
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I highly doubt this. The courts are not friendly to us and there is no way to say they will rule in our favor. Brown is anti 2A. It's that simple.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:23 PM
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Jerry brown is no friend of the 2A, no need to sugar coat the truth.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:26 PM
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But don't you know? The world is divided into two, distinct, simple camps: the libs and the pro-2As.

And obviously, Brown must be a lib, therefore anti-2A.

Black and white politics. They make a lot of sense to idiots and drunks.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
Gov. Brown is no fool...
Maybe, but I know for sure who is.

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Old 10-11-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple K View Post
Gerry Brown is a chameleon of sorts. By signing the anti-gun bills he can pander to his base, while at the same time serve us up a beautiful pitch. It's up to us to take that pitch and knock it outta the park. There is a silver lining to that dark cloud. As Gene always says "chess, not checkers." I think the Governor plays chess too, and he's not sitting across from us.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:33 PM
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But don't you know? The world is divided into two, distinct, simple camps: the libs and the pro-2As.

And obviously, Brown must be a lib, therefore anti-2A.

Black and white politics. They make a lot of sense to idiots and drunks.
I agree.

Anyone who took an unemotional look at the bills signed and not signed would be unable to claim Brown is completely anti-2a or pro-2a. Just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you, doesn't mean they 100% disagree.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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Time will tell
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:38 PM
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Keep voting Democrat and you will destroy what little gun rights we have left in California.
as will thinking this is a den vs rep issue.

simply being a republican does NOT make one a friend of the 2nd. thinking that it does has done more harm then good. Since 1983 there have been 4 govenors, 3 R, 1 D. Of those 3, 2 did as much damage to your RKBA as did the 1 democrat, Davis. So far, while not ideal by any means, Gov Brown hasn't done any significant damage and maybe even (intentional or not. open to debate I guess) done us some "favors". But regardless he hasn't done any significant damage to your RKBAs. So far a lot less than George Deukmejian and Arnold Schwarzenegger did. and they were both Republican.

This isn't a party issue, it's a Civil Rights issue. please treat it as such and stop making it a party issue. personally I want to win. Don't you?
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:40 PM
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As someone who started out HIGHLY skeptical of Jerry Brown, let me just say this:

I'd much rather he vetoed the ammunition bill and signed off on banning UOC (which is all but meaningless for defensive purposes, anyway) than the other way around. Practicing UOC is nothing but a political statement; access and affordability of ammunition is an integral part of our favorite passtime and 2nd Amendment freedoms.

I don't know whether the UOC activity has harmed (via public opinion) or helped (via pending court cases about the right to "bear") us, but we need to keep our eyes on the prize: concealed, loaded carry.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:40 PM
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Keep voting Democrat and you will destroy what little gun rights we have left in California.
The republican choice was vehemently antigun...........
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:48 PM
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Gerry Brown is a chameleon of sorts. By signing the anti-gun bills he can pander to his base, while at the same time serve us up a beautiful pitch. It's up to us to take that pitch and knock it outta the park. There is a silver lining to that dark cloud. As Gene always says "chess, not checkers." I think the Governor plays chess too, and he's not sitting across from us.
I hope you remembered your flame proof suit today making comments like that here as riled up as everyone one is. I'm not sure I agree with you, but I hope you're right.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:08 PM
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I hope you remembered your flame proof suit today making comments like that here as riled up as everyone one is. I'm not sure I agree with you, but I hope you're right.
I'm a Firefighter/EMT in an Oil Refinery, these little flames are nothing compared to what I'm used to.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:18 PM
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I don't think JB's actions on Sunday are enough to fully characterize his position on the RBKA. He is certainly not a staunch friend of our RKBA, but I'm not yet convinced that he is an implacable foe, either.

At this point I think that the smart bet is that if the legislature sends him anti-RKBA legislation he will likely sign the bill unless it is clearly doomed and futile.

He is not going to take political hits in order to protect our RKBA - which is an argument for keeping the visibility on the streets nice and low. I'm betting that the recent Cupertino shootings did not help our cause at all, and neither did the UOC demonstrations.

But if it is clear to him that an anti-RKBA bill will be subject to litigation and will clearly fail as a result, he just might veto that bill.

So he signed a pro-RKBA bill because it was just cleaning up the language and did not make a legally substantive change.

He vetoed an amendment to a bill which had already been ruled unconstitutional and is likely to be definitively smacked down in the foreseeable future.

He signed the unconstitutional AB144, but the ban on UOC is not going to cost him politically. It will salve the pride of some votes he is going to need in the upcoming budget battles. Understand, because of the Republican near-irrelevance in this state he really doesn't need to accomodate conservative/libertarian concerns.

This is already getting too long so I won't delve any further.

But on RKBA issues I consider Brown to be anything but our friend - and I don't think he is deliberately giving us great fodder for court cases. But he is not an implacable foe, either - he is an opportunist fascist politician who is much more concerned about his legacy as interpreted by his fellow fascists than anything that you and I might treasure.

If we want to be relevant to Brown and others of his ilk, we need to be active within the NRA, the Republican party, and the Democrat party. We have to be legally and politically relevant since our civil rights don't really matter all that much to those in power.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:20 PM
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I'm a Firefighter/EMT in an Oil Refinery, these little flames are nothing compared to what I'm used to.
Meh. At least you can walk away if it gets too hot. We have to whip out the Shake and Bakes and turn into a group of baked 'taters on the side of a hill.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:22 PM
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Wrong. Brown is 100% against gun rights. Those of you who think that the ban on unloaded open carry will lead to a "shall issue" regime in California for carry permits are simply wrong too. All of Brown's actions evidence a deep hostility to gun rights in common with all Democrats. And these people can pass 20 anti-gun laws for every one that we get overturned or weakened in the courts, which is exactly what is happening.

Keep voting Democrat and you will destroy what little gun rights we have left in California.
Not all Democrats at all. Many republicans are against or will side with the majority when it comes down to campaign funding.You have to open your eyes and see who is giving money to all election campaigns. These are the same people that have pushed gun control through in England, australia, canada, on and on. These people run the world and run the UN. It will happen some day, let's hope and pray that we can keep it alive here as long as possable. We all know what is needed here so that our grand children and their grandchildren will be able to get their hands on them when they need to. Just do it! put away some on family land and keep the maps under lock and key. They could need them sooner rather than later.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:29 PM
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Okay, just some thoughts on Jerry Brown.

1. Signed Amicus in favor of 2A. Check.

2. Signed AB610 to standardize 12050 PC. Check.

3. Vetoed bill to register ammo. Check.

As others have already said, long gun registration doesn't go into effect until 2014, that gives our side time to get it ruled unconstitutional. AB144 made carrying an unloaded handgun illegal, an issue that stood in the way of a ruling in our favor in Peruta. Now they're going to have to come up with an alternative to that which, in their mind satisfies, the right to bear arms. So what could that possibly be ?

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the bad side to this yet.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:32 PM
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Okay, just some thoughts on Jerry Brown.

1. Signed Amicus in favor of 2A. Check.

2. Signed AB610 to standardize 12050 PC. Check.

3. Vetoed bill to register ammo. Check.

As others have already said, long gun registration doesn't go into effect until 2014, that gives our side time to get it ruled unconstitutional. AB144 made carrying an unloaded handgun illegal, an issue that stood in the way of a ruling in our favor in Peruta. Now they're going to have to come up with an alternative to that which, in their mind satisfies, the right to bear arms. So what could that possibly be ?

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the bad side to this yet.
It seems our side already has more on their plate than resources allow to fight, now there's more.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:34 PM
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It seems our side already has more on their plate than resources allow to fight, now there's more.
It's irrelevant right now.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:35 PM
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The dreamers keep dreaming.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:38 PM
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It's irrelevant right now.
How? This shows the anti's that Brown will sign their crap. That will just add to the crap we have to fight. They can add crap at a much greater rate than we can get rid of. It is completely relevant.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:42 PM
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anti-gunners care more about appearance than effective law.

Why not sign useless laws if it distracts them from worrying about whether the really harmful laws are vetoed?
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:43 PM
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How? This shows the anti's that Brown will sign their crap. That will just add to the crap we have to fight. They can add crap at a much greater rate than we can get rid of. It is completely relevant.
As long as it's insignificant crap, who cares.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:45 PM
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As long as it's insignificant crap, who cares.
Because insignificant crap still has consequences. The UOC ban still strips people of one of their means of carry. It still takes time, money and effort to fight it. Stopping these bills before they become law is much more effective than spending time and money on "insignificant crap" that can be spent fighting the AW ban or the handgun roster.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:46 PM
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Okay, just some thoughts on Jerry Brown.

1. Signed Amicus in favor of 2A. Check.

2. Signed AB610 to standardize 12050 PC. Check.

3. Vetoed bill to register ammo. Check.

As others have already said, long gun registration doesn't go into effect until 2014, that gives our side time to get it ruled unconstitutional. AB144 made carrying an unloaded handgun illegal, an issue that stood in the way of a ruling in our favor in Peruta. Now they're going to have to come up with an alternative to that which, in their mind satisfies, the right to bear arms. So what could that possibly be ?

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the bad side to this yet.
Even I am not quite that happy with recent events!

But over the years JB has done even more than you've noted above.

So far as his recent signings of anti-RKBA bills? I view that more as someone who worries more about how his troops look than how they fight. The intent is to do such and so - the fact that the effect may be the opposite is irrelevant to the intent.

But then, again, the fascist concept is that if your thoughts are pure and you are attempting to use government to bludgeon the populace into adherence to the approved thought processes - then everything will turn out right eventually. You may have to violate civil rights in the process, but in the end there will be more rights than if you hadn't.

In someways the approach looks almost like the symbolism is more important than the function but it is a bit deeper than that.

So a 12 year old is not competent to go and get a tan. But they are perfectly competent to choose to get an injected vaccination which could, indeed lead to severe complications. Fundamentally bizarre to say that they are competent in the one situation but not in the other - but in the fascist mind the one is a desired action and therefore they are competent to consent and the other action is not desired so they are incompetent to consent.

It's asinine, but it's how Sacramento works.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:49 PM
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The dreamers keep dreaming.
Everyone keeps saying Chess, not Checkers. Have you ever sacrificed a pawn to divert the attention of your opponent, while you move your more important pieces for the win ?

These insignificant victories are like that.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:50 PM
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As long as it's insignificant crap, who cares.
it becomes a stalemate, we are busy fighting new legislation instead of advancing.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:54 PM
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Everyone keeps saying Chess, not Checkers. Have you ever sacrificed a pawn to divert the attention of your opponent, while you move your more important pieces for the win ?

These insignificant victories are like that.
It isn't a board game, there are no finite number of pawns.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:56 PM
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Everyone keeps saying Chess, not Checkers. Have you ever sacrificed a pawn to divert the attention of your opponent, while you move your more important pieces for the win ?

These insignificant victories are like that.
The difference is we have to make a million moves to take out one of their pawns while in the mean time they keep flooding the board with new pawns.

We are not on equal footing with the antis. They can pile as many bills as possible in our way while it takes us years to kill just one.
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Old 10-11-2011, 1:59 PM
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Because insignificant crap still has consequences. The UOC ban still strips people of one of their means of carry. It still takes time, money and effort to fight it. Stopping these bills before they become law is much more effective than spending time and money on "insignificant crap" that can be spent fighting the AW ban or the handgun roster.
Ah, but here's the beauty of that, when we win, we get that money back. This is a revolution of sorts, and we are fighting a battle of attrition. To date, we have made significant progress in ways that people didn't imagine a decade ago. And these little skirmishes are just part of the war.

No one ever won all of the battles, but we have to stay focused on winning the war.

Because of the complacency of our grandparents, parents, and us, we allowed this to devolve into what we have to fight now. We are in a cultural battle to win back our independence. We can't complicate this by fighting amongst ourselves.
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Old 10-11-2011, 2:00 PM
BAGunner BAGunner is offline
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Now they're going to have to come up with an alternative to that which, in their mind satisfies, the right to bear arms. So what could that possibly be ?
It would well be LUCC (locked unloaded concealed carry)
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Old 10-11-2011, 2:01 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
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The difference is we have to make a million moves to take out one of their pawns while in the mean time they keep flooding the board with new pawns.

We are not on equal footing with the antis. They can pile as many bills as possible in our way while it takes us years to kill just one.
That has been mostly true but may not be true in the future.

What is going to start happening is that as we get a few more precedents under our belts we'll be able to start going to the relevant court and quickly and easily get injunctions to stop much of the stupidity.

We'll never stop all of the stupidity but it will get better. We'll even make some gains which will be recognized as such by just about everyone. But the fight will never really end - because stupid never ends.

But we have to get the precedents. That's why cases like Richards, Peruta, Nordyke, etc. are important.

Edit: Ab427 is actually an example of how the stupid will slow down. We have a relevant winning case which still has not finished all its appeals, but it was enough to get JB to kill AB427 - and it is likely not going to come back.

Last edited by OleCuss; 10-11-2011 at 2:04 PM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 2:03 PM
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radioburning radioburning is offline
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The UOC ban still strips people of one of their means of carry. It still takes time, money and effort to fight it.
Who says anyone's gonna fight for UOC? I could give a rat's aasz about UOC if throwing it under the bus gives us a "CCW checkmate."
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Old 10-11-2011, 2:04 PM
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Ah, but here's the beauty of that, when we win, we get that money back. This is a revolution of sorts, and we are fighting a battle of attrition. To date, we have made significant progress in ways that people didn't imagine a decade ago. And these little skirmishes are just part of the war.

No one ever won all of the battles, but we have to stay focused on winning the war.

Because of the complacency of our grandparents, parents, and us, we allowed this to devolve into what we have to fight now. We are in a cultural battle to win back our independence. We can't complicate this by fighting amongst ourselves.
We beat AB962 but they just reproposed it. It got vetoed this time. We have an uphill battle until the SCOTUS grants us a ruling that is actually strong enough to stop it. Even then we will have to fight these "insignificant" laws. The fact is we are the under dog with less power than the gov. The gov is owned by the antis. The more we win the better but we cannot compete against the machine.

I am not saying we give up but we cannot minimalize these laws. Getting over confident will set us back. Everyone was confident the latest Nordyke ruling was going to be big for us but we were sorely disappointed.
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