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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 08-24-2011, 8:01 PM
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+1 Ill help. 7 days more, a nap and then a quick sandwich
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  #162  
Old 08-25-2011, 8:32 AM
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Are you up from your nap early?
Yeah, I can only nap for so long.
I figured it's time to wake up, grab some popcorn, and wait for the show to start.
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  #163  
Old 08-30-2011, 9:07 AM
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Got my sandwich ready. I know I wont see them today, but somebody is getting their mitts on some good cause statements. Probably in USPS hands at the very least. I just can't contain my excitement.
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  #164  
Old 08-30-2011, 12:09 PM
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We are less than two weeks.

-Gene
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  #165  
Old 08-30-2011, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
We are less than two weeks.

-Gene
Good thing...

I've had just about all the sandwiches and naps that I can stand....
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  #166  
Old 08-30-2011, 2:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
We are less than two weeks.

-Gene
Only on CGN is that an incredibly loaded statement.

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Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
Good thing...

I've had just about all the sandwiches and naps that I can stand....
You and me both!
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  #167  
Old 08-30-2011, 4:52 PM
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So did the Sheriff ship the (improperly redacted) forms to NY and post them book rate to ensure that Calguns got them as late as possible? Or has an appeal been filed looking to further delay delivery?
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  #168  
Old 08-30-2011, 6:36 PM
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The Sheriff couldn't just acknowledge the loss and deliver the documents a week later... He would have looked like a liar with the complaints about the work involved...
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  #169  
Old 08-30-2011, 9:04 PM
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So on the 1st we will start getting the first batch of good cause statements from Ventura County?

Or can we expect more delays like always?
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  #170  
Old 08-30-2011, 9:07 PM
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obvious anticipation

thank you all that have contributed time and money to the CGF process. I am just thankful they have chosen my county early
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  #171  
Old 08-30-2011, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RKV View Post
So did the Sheriff ship the (improperly redacted) forms to NY and post them book rate to ensure that Calguns got them as late as possible? Or has an appeal been filed looking to further delay delivery?
No appeal has been filed. Tomorrow marks the final day of the 60 days that were given, the original 45 plus 15 that CGF graciously agreed to. I suppose an appeal might be permissible tomorrow, but considering the circumstances would be incredibly bad form. File that under "not at all likely."

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Originally Posted by Blackhawk556 View Post
So on the 1st we will start getting the first batch of good cause statements from Ventura County?

Or can we expect more delays like always?
I believe sunshine initiative volunteers will be going through everything, scanning, uploading and converting to PDF's etc. once they have the paperwork in hand. "Two weeks" can mean a lot of things here, however I have a feeling Gene's above comment was meant to be taken literally.
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  #172  
Old 08-30-2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Connor P Price View Post
"Two weeks" can mean a lot of things here, however I have a feeling Gene's above comment was meant to be taken literally.
You never really know with Gene...

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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #173  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
You never really know with Gene...

I'm of the mind that you never really know with anyone. I could have sworn I saw an optimistic upbeat reaction to a brief the other day by none other than... you! The times they are a changin. lol, just playin with ya.
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  #174  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:16 AM
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Some bits arrived somewhere

-Gene
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  #175  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Connor P Price View Post
I'm of the mind that you never really know with anyone. I could have sworn I saw an optimistic upbeat reaction to a brief the other day by none other than... you! The times they are a changin. lol, just playin with ya.
LOL! Enjoy it while it lasts....

Gura's briefs are always a pleasure to read, but that one was particularly good, especially the opening sentence. Just pure awesomeness.


I think Gura's at his best when the opposition is at its most antagonistic...
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #176  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Some bits arrived somewhere

-Gene
Bits or Bytes?
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  #177  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:04 AM
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This is the best part:

Quote:
Petitioner is the prevailing party and is entitled to its statutory costs of suit pursuant to a cost bill.
Petitioner is entitled by statute to its reasonable attorneys fees. These will be determined by noticed motion.
If we start hitting these counties in the pocket book, it will deter other counties from fighting it.
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12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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  #178  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:10 AM
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love it!
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  #179  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
If we start hitting these counties in the pocket book, it will deter other counties from fighting it.
Depends on the counties in question, but generally not. The cost of paying for litigation, even when the cost is paid to the opposition, is trivial compared with the revenue available to the counties.

The only counties that will be deterred by litigation costs are those that are very poor.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #180  
Old 08-31-2011, 9:49 AM
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@@@@Originally Posted by hoffmang Some bits arrived somewhere -Gene...........awesome! Any goodies you want to share with us right now?
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  #181  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk556 View Post
@@@@Originally Posted by hoffmang Some bits arrived somewhere -Gene...........awesome! Any goodies you want to share with us right now?
As soon as the team's finished redacting we'll post at CGF and announce here.

Expect 2 different files: 1) approved GC's under current Sheriff Dean, and 2) approved GC's under former Sheriff Bob Brooks.

-Brandon
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  #182  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:57 PM
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Just curious, why is the CGF doing the redacting? I thought that was the Sheriff's responsibility and one of their primary arguments against releasing the data (would need to work OT, etc).

Regardless, thanks for the effort from the CGF!
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  #183  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Just curious, why is the CGF doing the redacting? I thought that was the Sheriff's responsibility and one of their primary arguments against releasing the data (would need to work OT, etc).

Regardless, thanks for the effort from the CGF!
Just a guess, but there were some items that could prove useful in future litigation, but are not particularly needed by applicants (name of spouse...).

Ryan
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  #184  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Just curious, why is the CGF doing the redacting? I thought that was the Sheriff's responsibility and one of their primary arguments against releasing the data (would need to work OT, etc).

Regardless, thanks for the effort from the CGF!
We don't "out" our people. The info from the VCSO has info - beyond the sensitive info they redacted - that we simply do not wish to distribute.

-Brandon
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  #185  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:41 PM
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The sheriffs that want to keep us in the dark and continue using LTC issuance as a campaign financing tool are always using the excuse that completing public records requests for LTC applications will expose personal information.

I'm pretty sure that CGF does not like to expose anyone's information and would prefer that LTC applications be made private as soon as LTCs are granted in a shall issue manner.
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  #186  
Old 08-31-2011, 1:47 PM
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Depends on the counties in question, but generally not. The cost of paying for litigation, even when the cost is paid to the opposition, is trivial compared with the revenue available to the counties.

The only counties that will be deterred by litigation costs are those that are very poor.
I think every county is hurting now. Now that the state has sucked up all the local court fines and various fees, county budgets are very tight across the board.
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12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
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  #187  
Old 08-31-2011, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
As soon as the team's finished redacting we'll post at CGF and announce here.

Expect 2 different files: 1) approved GC's under current Sheriff Dean, and 2) approved GC's under former Sheriff Bob Brooks.

-Brandon
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  #188  
Old 08-31-2011, 3:32 PM
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I think every county is hurting now. Now that the state has sucked up all the local court fines and various fees, county budgets are very tight across the board.

I don't think you understand the sheer amount of money these counties are pulling in.


Even when people are financially hurting, they'll still spend a few dollars here and a few dollars there, even when they don't strictly need to.

You would agree that a million dollars is an awful lot to pay for litigation costs in a lawsuit, right? To put that in perspective, San Francisco's bill for the gun ban suit they lost was half that.

If an even reasonably populous county (e.g., Ventura, which has a population of around 800,000) loses a million dollar lawsuit, in comparison to their revenue that would be the equivalent of someone who is making $100,000 per year (after taxes) losing just $300.


It really is a pittance from their perspective, and it's money that they didn't even earn. No, the only counties that are going to care about the cost of litigation are the poor, sparsely populated counties. But those are the ones that are generally on the shall-issue bandwagon anyway, so they're not on the radar.


You can't look at the finances of a county from the point of view of an individual. The amounts of money involved seem very high to us, but in relative terms the amounts of money involved in lawsuits are very, very low.
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #189  
Old 08-31-2011, 3:54 PM
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OK, so hit them with something that's appropriately uncomfortable for them. In fact, why haven't we done so already? Isn't that the point of legal action in the first place, to make them not want to do it again?
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  #190  
Old 08-31-2011, 4:40 PM
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OK, so hit them with something that's appropriately uncomfortable for them. In fact, why haven't we done so already? Isn't that the point of legal action in the first place, to make them not want to do it again?
Because we don't get to decide how much the judgment is for. The judge does. And he generally sets it based on his own views of what a "large" amount is -- and guess what that is normally based on? Yep: personal experience.

Which is to say, the judges generally make the very same mistakes that others here, who think that municipalities and counties are going to even care about the costs of litigation, do: they think about the money in terms of absolute amounts and compare that with what to them is large, not in terms of amounts that would be large relative to the income and assets of the target of the suit.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...

Last edited by kcbrown; 08-31-2011 at 5:28 PM..
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  #191  
Old 08-31-2011, 7:21 PM
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OK - let me ask a theoretical here.

Despite CGF's willingness to "play nice" County after County keeps up what my old Sr. DI would call "silly-*** games".

The Counties don't care -even if they are finally forced to pay damages or even attorneys fees (hasn't happened yet and won't in the foreseeable future so it's not a factor) they will simply tap their insurance - correct?

Why not make defendants out of the insurance companies that indemnify government entities that a reasonable person knows, or should know, are violating the rights of their citizens? That would, I would think, provide the proper frame of mind - in a hurry.
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  #192  
Old 08-31-2011, 7:42 PM
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Question

Counsel, et al:

This ? might have been asked before, but...

Can GC statements under one Sheriff be used for 14A EP purposes while another Sheriff is in Office?

Erik.
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  #193  
Old 08-31-2011, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
Counsel, et al:

This ? might have been asked before, but...

Can GC statements under one Sheriff be used for 14A EP purposes while another Sheriff is in Office?

Erik.
I've been curious about that as well. I'm guessing no, but the only way to be sure would be to litigate.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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  #194  
Old 08-31-2011, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
Counsel, et al:

This ? might have been asked before, but...

Can GC statements under one Sheriff be used for 14A EP purposes while another Sheriff is in Office?

Erik.
I would not at all be inclined to litigate a 14A EP case that turns on the previous sheriff's application of discretion.

-Brandon

ETA: In the instant matter of Ventura, I don't expect you'll find a lack of opportunity to get your application approved...
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Last edited by wildhawker; 08-31-2011 at 7:59 PM..
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  #195  
Old 08-31-2011, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I would not at all be inclined to litigate a 14A EP case that turns on the previous sheriff's application of discretion.

-Brandon

..
I'm inclined to bet that you won't be faced with that issue.........
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Last edited by HowardW56; 08-31-2011 at 8:06 PM..
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  #196  
Old 08-31-2011, 8:11 PM
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As team CGF travels north from Ventura county, can you stop off @ SLOSD & distribute an attitude adjustment? This whole Ventura thing is making me start to drool.....

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I would not at all be inclined to litigate a 14A EP case that turns on the previous sheriff's application of discretion.

-Brandon

ETA: In the instant matter of Ventura, I don't expect you'll find a lack of opportunity to get your application approved...
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Old 08-31-2011, 8:29 PM
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As team CGF travels north from Ventura county, can you stop off @ SLOSD & distribute an attitude adjustment? This whole Ventura thing is making me start to drool.....

.
I'm hoping that they take a while before they head back north...

Los Angeles County is deserving of some attention.....
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Old 08-31-2011, 8:33 PM
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As soon as the team's finished redacting we'll post at CGF and announce here.

Expect 2 different files: 1) approved GC's under current Sheriff Dean, and 2) approved GC's under former Sheriff Bob Brooks.

-Brandon
Thanx. Waiting...impatiently to file for my CCW.
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Old 08-31-2011, 8:36 PM
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Thanx. Waiting...impatiently to file for my CCW.

It won't be long now......
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Old 08-31-2011, 8:42 PM
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