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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 08-06-2011, 9:05 PM
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Default Important: Nomenclature - Semiautomatic Ban, Carry License

The strategic battlefield has changed and it is now time for all supporters of the Second Amendment to change how we refer to certain things.

We've talked about this before on this board, but in the past it either wasn't time, or we were asking people to be precise. Now I want to ask people to be even more precise - and yes this is serious.

We do not have an assault weapons ban. We have a ban on some semiautomatic rifles.

It is not a CCW permit. It is a carry license.

Examples:

You do not have a RAW, you have a registered banned semiautomatic rifle.

We are in court and the media talking about these things. The items I highlight are the distilled truth (and in fact are used to describe the made up terms in the laws themselves) of the matter. We need to get into the habit of using these terms because they are true and they undermine the power of the other side. Say Voldermort. Saying "assault weapon" is say "he who shall not be named."

I'm tempted to start fining at least CGF board members (self inclusive) $10 CGF donations every time they don't use these right terms. I'd even entertain others accepting the same for the rest of the community.

It's time we call this stuff by it's proper name because carry is a right and semiautomatic rifles and handguns are common and thus arms.

-Gene
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:12 PM
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Apply the $10 fee to calguns.net forum "board" members - will be much more lucrative.

Pre-payment for $50 worth of AWB references inbound.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:12 PM
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:13 PM
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Change acronym threads accordingly.

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Old 08-06-2011, 9:14 PM
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I like the new terms much better
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:14 PM
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I have long distained the reference to a 12050 license as a CCW... I have explained to people on more than one occasion that a CCW is a special endorsement for peace officers and does not apply to 'regular people'. And further, that concealed is only one kind of carry license provided in the statute (there are two).

The problem is that people are so stuck on using 'CCW' it is difficult to train them to use 'LTC' (license to carry), which is statutorily more accurrate. Some references to this can be found here on Calguns as well as 'other' forums I frequent.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:17 PM
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Gene,

You've lost all your credibility with me by making Harry Potter references

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  #8  
Old 08-06-2011, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
I have long distained the reference to a 12050 license as a CCW... I have explained to people on more than one occasion that a CCW is a special endorsement for peace officers and does not apply to 'regular people'. And further, that concealed is only one kind of carry license provided in the statute (there are two).

The problem is that people are so stuck on using 'CCW' it is difficult to train them to use 'LTC' (license to carry), which is statutorily more accurrate. Some references to this can be found here on Calguns as well as 'other' forums I frequent.
But it is now time to start asking our fellow gun owners to use the correct term - license to carry. Just like most threads where someone misuses "clip."

-Gene
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:20 PM
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done
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychGuy274 View Post
Gene,

You've lost all your credibility with me by making Harry Potter references

Harry Potter? Where is the Harry Potter reference? All I see is

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Say Voldermort. Saying "assault weapon" is say "he who shall not be named."
-Gene
Is that from Harry Potter? I thought Harry Potter was a witch or something. Does it have guns? Maybe it would be worth reading.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:28 PM
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I no longer have a CCW, I have a LTC. Will that work, or is carry permit the only permissible term?
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2011, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
But it is now time to start asking our fellow gun owners to use the correct term - license to carry. Just like most threads where someone misuses "clip."

-Gene
So when do the letters go out to the LTC instructors informing them of their new titles?

And what about this thread title? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=116
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:29 PM
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So should high capacity mags be considered standard capacity as well now?
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
But it is now time to start asking our fellow gun owners to use the correct term - license to carry. Just like most threads where someone misuses "clip."

-Gene
Makes 10000000000000% perfect sense to me!

Consider all future references to the fact of the matter done on my end.

Thanks Gene!
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2011, 9:30 PM
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I am completely with you on this, Gene. Some people don't get the importance of nomenclature and framing things to our advantage. I definitely do. It's why I refuse to call the 10 round limit a ban on "high capacity magazines" that one also works against us, because it frames anything over 10 rounds as excessive, even when standard Glock / LEA mags are way over that figure.

I know some people don't like the practice of changing the nomenclature, because they find it to be confusing. The problem is, the longer we stay with the terminology created by the other side, the longer we singe ridiculous notions in the minds of those less educated on self defense rights. Enough of the BS smoke and mirrors.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:30 PM
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understood
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow Repair View Post
Harry Potter? Where is the Harry Potter reference? All I see is



Is that from Harry Potter? I thought Harry Potter was a witch or something. Does it have guns? Maybe it would be worth reading.
Harry Potter is a story about a sort of shadow society where EVERYONE is armed 24/7 (with their wands of course, but they can maim and kill at will with them if they want) and able to defend themselves against those who would do them harm. Hell they're even taught defense against the dark arts (self defense by regular terms) at their version of public education!

If you choose to read Harry Potter that way it's awesome, any other way it's lame.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:31 PM
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I have limited internet right now (moving into Oakland house). Would a mod (i.e., NOT GENE) please update the acronymn thread?

On a related note, air cards generally suck. . .
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2011, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe2150 View Post
So should high capacity mags be considered standard capacity as well now?
In my opinion, sort of. Standard capacity magazines, IMO, are effectively banned under CA law. But I've heard complaints that calling it a standard cap magazine ban is confusing. My advice on this one is to be very specific:

The ban on (import of) high capacity magazines is a ban on (import of) magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds, or more succinctly put is a 10 round limit. It's worth noting in any conversation with an anti that typical Glocks used by police and folks all around the country have 17 round magazines. 10 is well below that number.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb7706 View Post
I no longer have a CCW, I have a LTC. Will that work, or is carry permit the only permissible term?
That works too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe2150 View Post
So should high capacity mags be considered standard capacity as well now?
We have a magazine restriction.

-Gene
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:34 PM
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Just thinking, should the "CCW Discussion" forum be re-named?
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:36 PM
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A lot needs to be updated. Eg:

Calguns CCW Information Forum
Information on how to get a CCW in yourCounty
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GOEX FFF View Post
Just thinking, should the "CCW Discussion" forum be re-named?
Yep. Wheels are in motion.

I expect things will look different in

-Gene
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOEX FFF View Post
Just thinking, should the "CCW Discussion" forum be re-named?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
So when do the letters go out to the LTC instructors informing them of their new titles?

And what about this thread title? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=116
I think the motion is seconded.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:38 PM
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Done!
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:40 PM
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I will do my best to use the term carry license but I will say that old habits will die hard. As for making donation if I slip would be nice but right now I am too broke to even pay attention.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:40 PM
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I like where this is going, I'm in. I agree that we can only purchase restricted capacity mags in CA, not standard capacity.

I hope to someday have a Carry License too......
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:40 PM
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Well, since Kes-troll doesn't really do anything but ban people, maybe some of his minions can get to work on altering some of the forum titles/threads
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:44 PM
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Yep...they sound better already.
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:45 PM
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Well, since Kes-troll doesn't really do anything but ban people, maybe some of his minions can get to work on altering some of the forum titles/threads
Oooo look, someone I can ban!

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Old 08-06-2011, 9:45 PM
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I'm with you!! Thanks for the hard work! Time to kick butts and take name!
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:47 PM
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I like these subtle changes. Words mean things, and the better we play the word game, the more minds we can sway.

Should make the gun show booths more lively for the first time or two with all the fines being dropped in the box....
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:47 PM
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It'll take some time and effort to change everything but this is a good idea.

There's a lot to this forum so I'm sure I'll miss some things, if you see some thing I've missed report it so I'll see it.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:01 PM
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Agree with all of the above. I just want to know. Why now?what happened?

Or did a piece of straw just break the camels back?
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
The strategic battlefield has changed and it is now time for all supporters of the Second Amendment to change how we refer to certain things.

We've talked about this before on this board, but in the past it either wasn't time, or we were asking people to be precise. Now I want to ask people to be even more precise - and yes this is serious.

We do not have an assault weapons ban. We have a ban on some semiautomatic rifles.

It is not a CCW permit. It is a carry license.

Examples:

You do not have a RAW, you have a registered banned semiautomatic rifle.

We are in court and the media talking about these things. The items I highlight are the distilled truth (and in fact are used to describe the made up terms in the laws themselves) of the matter. We need to get into the habit of using these terms because they are true and they undermine the power of the other side. Say Voldermort. Saying "assault weapon" is say "he who shall not be named."

I'm tempted to start fining at least CGF board members (self inclusive) $10 CGF donations every time they don't use these right terms. I'd even entertain others accepting the same for the rest of the community.

It's time we call this stuff by it's proper name because carry is a right and semiautomatic rifles and handguns are common and thus arms.

-Gene
Good. I have long since believed we are playing into the Brady's hands to speak of assault rifles or assault weapon. They gave certain semi-automatic firearms a scary name to promote their gun banning agenda through fear.

I would even be inclined to drop the "banned" and just call it a "registered semi-automatic rifle".
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:04 PM
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Agree with all of the above. I just want to know. Why now?what happened?

Or did a piece of straw just break the camels back?
Timing of a bunch of things. Phase I was Heller/McDonald. Phase II is carry. Phase III will be semiautomatics. We're on the downhill of Phase II and about to really enter Phase III.

-Gene
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
So when do the letters go out to the LTC instructors informing them of their new titles?

And what about this thread title? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=116
Someone with plenary powers got that one... (not me!)
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

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  #38  
Old 08-06-2011, 10:16 PM
Lone_Gunman Lone_Gunman is offline
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Copy that Gene. I no longer have a CCW. I now have a carry license or LTC.
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  #39  
Old 08-06-2011, 10:18 PM
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chead chead is offline
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Language is incredibly important in shaping opinion and this is a great idea.
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  #40  
Old 08-06-2011, 10:22 PM
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GOEX FFF GOEX FFF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayWolf09 View Post
Good. I have long since believed we are playing into the Brady's hands to speak of assault rifles or assault weapon. They gave certain semi-automatic firearms a scary name to promote their gun banning agenda through fear.

I would even be inclined to drop the "banned" and just call it a "registered semi-automatic rifle".
Drats, I guess I can no longer take their Mega-ginormous-bullet-blasting-pew-pew-assault-heat-seeking-big-bullet-holder-destruction-clip-boxes, seriously now.
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