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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #41  
Old 11-22-2010, 10:59 PM
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At this point, hang tight and we'll get in touch with you as soon as we're ready to move in KC.
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  #42  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:09 PM
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  #43  
Old 11-23-2010, 7:10 AM
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Haha, I wonder what Jordan's office would do if you certified mail the standard app and a $20 check to them And maybe include Solano and San Joaquin Counties' recent policy changes that were done "in accordance with State Law".

EDIT: now I saw Wildhawker's reply two posts up...

Last edited by greasemonkey; 11-23-2010 at 7:22 AM..
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  #44  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:43 PM
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We stopped by the Hanford PD today to pick up an application for my wife and to amend my permit with a new handgun.

A couple notes
  • The sign on the window listing fees specifies $160 for an initial application. I don't know if this is current or outdated; we just picked up the application and left.
  • The application they gave us appears to be identical to the standard application available here as a pdf.
  • They are now requiring three character reference letters - this is a change from my application approximately 1 year ago, which required neither references nor an interview.
  • The person at the window was friendly, professional, and helpful.

My wife will be submitting her application this week. How should she respond to a fee request in excess of the PC 12054(a) $100 maximum? We don't want to make the application process any more antagonistic than it has to be, but OTOH a response like "the fee is $160, apply or don't, it's up to you" is both possible and not OK.

I had positive interactions with the Hanford PD when I applied for my permit last year (except for the 7+ months it took to be processed). We're hopeful this will be a reasonable process.
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2010, 1:01 PM
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I'd strongly urge NOT applying to Hanford PD and applying directly to the Sheriff using one of the approved good cause statements at www.gotcarry.org.

However, if you are set on applying to the PD (and we expect your wife will be denied), she can help us to clean up their policy by demanding that they follow the law. If she is interested in this route, PM me your phone number and I'll get in touch.

-Brandon

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgg View Post
We stopped by the Hanford PD today to pick up an application for my wife and to amend my permit with a new handgun.

A couple notes
  • The sign on the window listing fees specifies $160 for an initial application. I don't know if this is current or outdated; we just picked up the application and left.
  • The application they gave us appears to be identical to the standard application available here as a pdf.
  • They are now requiring three character reference letters - this is a change from my application approximately 1 year ago, which required neither references nor an interview.
  • The person at the window was friendly, professional, and helpful.

My wife will be submitting her application this week. How should she respond to a fee request in excess of the PC 12054(a) $100 maximum? We don't want to make the application process any more antagonistic than it has to be, but OTOH a response like "the fee is $160, apply or don't, it's up to you" is both possible and not OK.

I had positive interactions with the Hanford PD when I applied for my permit last year (except for the 7+ months it took to be processed). We're hopeful this will be a reasonable process.
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  #46  
Old 11-30-2010, 7:44 AM
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I talked to my friend at the Pd about the $160 fee. It is my understanding that this is the fed and local fee in one. I know they are not suposed to charge it all at once, and I might be able to approach him on that. But I wouldn't automatically assume she's not going to be approved.

I wonder about the sheriff's office...Jordan is just waiting for the end of the year. As I understand Robison is in the meetings now days seeing as he will be making all the up comming desicions. I can just imagine them sitting on your application till the turn of the year and then it not being a priority for Robison. Heaven knows he has a lot to accomplish in Jordans wake.
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  #47  
Old 11-30-2010, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operator View Post
I wonder about the sheriff's office...Jordan is just waiting for the end of the year. As I understand Robison is in the meetings now days seeing as he will be making all the up comming desicions. I can just imagine them sitting on your application till the turn of the year and then it not being a priority for Robison. Heaven knows he has a lot to accomplish in Jordans wake.
I figure now is a perfect time to apply the CGF way since Robinson is setting his strategy right now, it'd be good for him to be introduced to how the process oughta be before he takes the typical "discretion" and makes up his own rules. Forget Chris, he won't make a decision on an app right now but it'll definitely be brought to their attention...it's perfect timing.
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  #48  
Old 12-01-2010, 8:45 AM
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Originally Posted by greasemonkey View Post
I figure now is a perfect time to apply the CGF way since Robinson is setting his strategy right now, it'd be good for him to be introduced to how the process oughta be before he takes the typical "discretion" and makes up his own rules. Forget Chris, he won't make a decision on an app right now but it'll definitely be brought to their attention...it's perfect timing.
Ya, it makes sense,Now would be a good time to address this. I just don't think he will see it as big priority. He's going to look to the PD for advice in the short term, till he gets his legs. A law suit from CGF might make it a priority, but I can't imagine Kings County is a high Priority for CGF either.

Question for CGF:
Are the county DA's any help in this effort go get LE to follow the PC?
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  #49  
Old 12-01-2010, 9:15 AM
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This isn't in the realm of the DA's jurisdiction. We'll address this with state and federal civil suits.

Also, don't be too invested in the thought that we aren't looking at Kings.
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  #50  
Old 12-01-2010, 4:04 PM
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I'm not suggesting we are being neglected, the reality is that there are more populated places that should be a priority. Use the CGF fund to help as many people as possible, that means spending on highly populated areas.
I get it. I'm not worried, it will happen, when it happens.

I think CGF is doing a wonderful job, I'm very impressed with the way the board uses it's resources and the way they spend the incredibly valuable money that has been donated.

Keep it up Brandon.
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  #51  
Old 12-01-2010, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Operator View Post
I'm not suggesting we are being neglected, the reality is that there are more populated places that should be a priority. Use the CGF fund to help as many people as possible, that means spending on highly populated areas.
Sometimes the best way to win in the populated areas is to fight in the low budget, unpopulated areas...

-Gene
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  #52  
Old 12-02-2010, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Sometimes the best way to win in the populated areas is to fight in the low budget, unpopulated areas...

-Gene
Good Point, in that case, I would recommend Kings as a good next stop. This might even be viewed by the new sheriff as a good way to get some public support early on in this new job of his. I would assume Hanford PD is the biggest issuer of CCW's and from personal experience I can say that they are open to reason, and are willing to do things the way the PC says they should.

Might be an inexpensive win here.
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  #53  
Old 12-02-2010, 9:07 PM
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With few, very specific exceptions, we're not interested in PDs. Win the county level and you win for every resident of that jurisdiction, and avoid (g) games.

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Originally Posted by Operator View Post
Good Point, in that case, I would recommend Kings as a good next stop. This might even be viewed by the new sheriff as a good way to get some public support early on in this new job of his. I would assume Hanford PD is the biggest issuer of CCW's and from personal experience I can say that they are open to reason, and are willing to do things the way the PC says they should.

Might be an inexpensive win here.
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  #54  
Old 12-02-2010, 9:08 PM
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  #55  
Old 12-02-2010, 9:17 PM
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With few, very specific exceptions, we're not interested in PDs. Win the county level and you win for every resident of that jurisdiction, and avoid (g) games.

-Brandon
What I meant by this was that I think the PD would support it. In Kings county I think there would be a better reaction from the Sheriff if HPD was supporting it.
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  #56  
Old 01-05-2011, 8:19 PM
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There is a #12 about a letter from your employer. I work on NASL for a defense contractorand there is now weapons carry on base. Would #12 still apply?
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  #57  
Old 01-23-2011, 9:23 AM
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There was an article in the Sentinel yesterday about the new Sheriff David Robinson. He says he has an open door policy and works for the tax payers. Sounds like it's time for CGF to go pay him a visit. Link

Quote:
"I work for the taxpayers and the community," Robinson told The Sentinel. "So it's my job to be available whenever I can for whoever should walk through my door. If I have a minute, then you get a minute. If I have a half hour, then you can have a half hour."
Quote:
"I have an open-door policy," he explained. "I want people to come in and share their ideas. My only rule is that if you bring a problem, then also bring a solution, and let's work on it together."
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  #58  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:03 PM
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There was an article in the Sentinel yesterday about the new Sheriff David Robinson. He says he has an open door policy and works for the tax payers. Sounds like it's time for CGF to go pay him a visit. Link
I met him a month or so ago and specifically asked him if he was going to take a more shall-issue approach to CCW, and if "personal defense" would be accepted as good cause.

The short answer is that while he said he'd be very liberal in granting them to ordinary citizens, discretionary issue will continue. He pointed out that California as a whole is definitely not shall issue (as if we all didn't know that already ), and it seems his impression of CCW is that he has some concerns about citizens who'd like to take the law into their own hands and do the job of the police. I'd like to think he doesn't have silly visions of CCW'ers out on the streets stalking drug dealers.

The proof will be in what he does. Despite the above he seemed fairly pro-CCW but it was hard to tell. The context of our conversation wasn't the usual LEO-citizen interaction; he was out of uniform and at my place of business, so it's possible he just wanted to placate and not annoy me.


I have a CCW issued last year by the Hanford police department, who told my wife to "not bother" applying. Her application through the Sheriff is complete and just waiting for her to drop it off (probably this week). Her good cause statement is a brief "personal defense" with a couple lines about our recent break-in.
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  #59  
Old 01-23-2011, 7:44 PM
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Typical statist anti-liberty politico we call Sheriff.

He'll get his soon, even if we have to have a Federal judge compel it.

ETA: What does a break-in have to do with bear outside the home, unless you were specifically targeted?
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  #60  
Old 01-24-2011, 8:07 AM
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Typical statist anti-liberty politico we call Sheriff.

He'll get his soon, even if we have to have a Federal judge compel it.

ETA: What does a break-in have to do with bear outside the home, unless you were specifically targeted?

Sorry, I wasn't clear, it was a vehicle break-in in our driveway and is just one verifiable data point that speaks to the overall criminal element and risk that is present once we leave our home.
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  #61  
Old 01-31-2011, 6:00 PM
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I'm still waiting for word from the Right People, but I have a couple friends who have stopped by the sheriffs office to pick up applications, and were told that they have to go through HPD because KCSO and HPD 'have an agreement.' they were able to get an application however. Is there anyone on here I should have them contact? I assume the more people who have been given false information by LE, the better for us as a whole.
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Old 01-31-2011, 7:47 PM
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Wildhawker & Graypetersen have the official word on go-time, I've got a list of people ready to apply, as well. You don't even have to go in and pick up an application, you can fill out and print the .pdf CA-DOJ Standard Application and just mail it in along with a few other details per The Right People.
And yes, that is one of the illegal policies expected to be done away with when this is all over.

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I'm still waiting for word from the Right People, but I have a couple friends who have stopped by the sheriffs office to pick up applications, and were told that they have to go through HPD because KCSO and HPD 'have an agreement.' they were able to get an application however. Is there anyone on here I should have them contact? I assume the more people who have been given false information by LE, the better for us as a whole.
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  #63  
Old 02-01-2011, 3:25 PM
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Wildhawker & Graypetersen have the official word on go-time, I've got a list of people ready to apply, as well. You don't even have to go in and pick up an application, you can fill out and print the .pdf CA-DOJ Standard Application and just mail it in along with a few other details per The Right People.
And yes, that is one of the illegal policies expected to be done away with when this is all over.
So ... my wife's app is ready to turn in to the Sheriff. Should she wait until the apply-now flag is raised?

Otherwise, tomorrow may as well be the day.
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  #64  
Old 02-01-2011, 10:09 PM
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So ... my wife's app is ready to turn in to the Sheriff. Should she wait until the apply-now flag is raised?

Otherwise, tomorrow may as well be the day.
It's really up to you. Kings absolutely has some issues with their policy, but there is a strategic path which requires some finality in other jurisdictions. I'm time-limited and don't want to overcommit to Kings applicants, but I think those who want to reform the policy should count on some instruction being available soon. Those who simply want to apply should not wait on the Initiative, but we would appreciate being kept informed of status and outcomes either here or by email.
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  #65  
Old 07-15-2011, 6:54 PM
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KCSO has updated their CCW policy and posted it online:
http://www.countyofkings.com/sheriff...structions.pdf

seems they may be thumbing their noses at us seeing how the new policy has a few more issues than the old policy, most noticeably:

" Do you reside inside the city limits of Avenal, Corcoran, Hanford or
Lemoore?...
If your answer is yes, please contact the Police Department of the city in which
you reside. If your application gets denied by your local police department, you
may then be eligible to apply with the Kings County Sheriff. "

and:
" Three (3) letters of character reference"

which i do not see in the old policy, available on the sunshine initiative site.
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Old 07-15-2011, 7:15 PM
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Sounds like they are missing Brandon's love letters.....

.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choprzrul View Post
Sounds like they are missing Brandon's love letters.....

.
They're not missing his letters, the current Sheriff's administrative staff and legal counsel probably actually understands what Brandon's letters are attempting to say, it's just that they actually believe that their "discretion" with CCWs is that they get to write whatever laws they want and that the State Laws are merely suggestions or a starting point of reference.
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:08 PM
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They're not missing his letters, the current Sheriff's administrative staff and legal counsel probably actually understands what Brandon's letters are attempting to say, it's just that they actually believe that their "discretion" with CCWs is that they get to write whatever laws they want and that the State Laws are merely suggestions or a starting point of reference.
Let them think so. Jason's gotta eat somehow.
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  #69  
Old 07-17-2011, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G60 View Post
KCSO has updated their CCW policy and posted it online:
http://www.countyofkings.com/sheriff...structions.pdf

seems they may be thumbing their noses at us seeing how the new policy has a few more issues than the old policy, most noticeably:

" Do you reside inside the city limits of Avenal, Corcoran, Hanford or
Lemoore?...
If your answer is yes, please contact the Police Department of the city in which
you reside. If your application gets denied by your local police department, you
may then be eligible to apply with the Kings County Sheriff. "

and:
" Three (3) letters of character reference"

which i do not see in the old policy, available on the sunshine initiative site.
Those may not have been in the previous written policy but those provisions have been around since at least 2009 when Jordan was Sheriff. I inquired about getting one then.
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Old 07-19-2011, 9:39 AM
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I saw this as well, and it concerns me, that is why I am taking orders to Lemoore...


"4. Are you active military or a military dependent?
If your answer is no, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office.
If your answer is yes, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office. Your packet must include a letter from your Commanding Officer stating their awareness of your application and a comment regarding any policy, which may affect your ability to carry a concealed weapon while working."


Can they require this information from my employer?
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:44 AM
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No, they can not require any additional forms and this portion of the application policy that's been wrongfully recycled from past illegal policies of Kings County stinks bad.
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Old 07-28-2011, 7:54 PM
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So lets sue em...
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Old 08-01-2011, 8:12 PM
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I saw this as well, and it concerns me, that is why I am taking orders to Lemoore...


"4. Are you active military or a military dependent?
If your answer is no, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office.
If your answer is yes, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office. Your packet must include a letter from your Commanding Officer stating their awareness of your application and a comment regarding any policy, which may affect your ability to carry a concealed weapon while working."
That's interesting. I'm active duty military @ Lemoore and put my CCW app in through the Hanford police department. They did ask me (paraphrase) 'since you work on base and can't carry there, why do you want a permit?' ... but were satisfied with my answer that I'd only carry off base. I think I applied in Oct or Nov 2009 and it was issued Jun 2010.
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  #74  
Old 08-01-2011, 9:28 PM
greasemonkey greasemonkey is offline
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Kings County has been noticed and it wouldn't be the first time (see Harrott v. County of Kings). That said, there are Counties who are reaching out TO CGF for help drafting their department policies that they're now magically working on since Merced was served papers

As with the rest of the Counties, suing them really is the last option pursued. There may be an opportunity for CGF and some constituents to have a viable, friendly influence without having to go to court. (This really has no bearing now but the last Sheriff, Jordan, had some disgusting Equal Protection issues that just didn't come up in time before he was effectively run out of office by the voters on election day. Those would have made some BEAUTIFUL court cases.)

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So lets sue em...
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  #75  
Old 08-02-2011, 3:22 PM
pgg pgg is offline
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My wife just went to the Kings County Sheriff's office to submit her CCW application. She was told
  • Appointment needed, can't just drop off standard DOJ application - OK, no problem.
  • Three letters of character reference needed - not a problem, but illegal.
  • Must complete a CCW class ahead of time - not a problem, but I don't believe this is OK either.
  • Fee of $129 paid in advance - not a problem, but I didn't think this was allowed. When I got my CCW through the PD, they collected the fee only after reviewing my application and approving it.
  • Letter of rejection from Hanford Police Department - not OK, illegal.
  • She needs to bring the gun(s) to be listed on the permit to the appointment - OK, but kind of weird.


She's signed up to take the CCW course, which is no big deal. It'll be needed eventually, and The Range in Fresno puts on a good course that's worth going to in its own right. Time and money for training is always time and money well spent.

She's asked three appropriate people to write letters for her. We know this is an illegal requirement, but for the moment it seems easier to jump through the hoops.

As for the letter of rejection from the police department, she's just going to write her own letter documenting our experience there. Which was, to give an exact quote, "don't bother applying" because they don't approve applications for "personal defense" as good cause.


I'm a little upset by the fact that the Sheriff's office is at best ignorant of the laws they're entrusted to uphold, and at worst deliberately flaunting them. Perhaps some kind but stern words from CGF would help bring their CCW policies more in line with state law?

Last edited by pgg; 08-02-2011 at 3:26 PM..
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  #76  
Old 08-02-2011, 7:11 PM
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wildhawker wildhawker is offline
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I'd like to setup a meeting with both the KCSO and Hanford PD to discuss these issues. How feasible would it be for you both to join? You can email me at bcombs at calgunsfoundation dot org to discuss offline.

-Brandon

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Originally Posted by pgg View Post
My wife just went to the Kings County Sheriff's office to submit her CCW application. She was told
  • Appointment needed, can't just drop off standard DOJ application - OK, no problem.
  • Three letters of character reference needed - not a problem, but illegal.
  • Must complete a CCW class ahead of time - not a problem, but I don't believe this is OK either.
  • Fee of $129 paid in advance - not a problem, but I didn't think this was allowed. When I got my CCW through the PD, they collected the fee only after reviewing my application and approving it.
  • Letter of rejection from Hanford Police Department - not OK, illegal.
  • She needs to bring the gun(s) to be listed on the permit to the appointment - OK, but kind of weird.


She's signed up to take the CCW course, which is no big deal. It'll be needed eventually, and The Range in Fresno puts on a good course that's worth going to in its own right. Time and money for training is always time and money well spent.

She's asked three appropriate people to write letters for her. We know this is an illegal requirement, but for the moment it seems easier to jump through the hoops.

As for the letter of rejection from the police department, she's just going to write her own letter documenting our experience there. Which was, to give an exact quote, "don't bother applying" because they don't approve applications for "personal defense" as good cause.


I'm a little upset by the fact that the Sheriff's office is at best ignorant of the laws they're entrusted to uphold, and at worst deliberately flaunting them. Perhaps some kind but stern words from CGF would help bring their CCW policies more in line with state law?
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  #77  
Old 08-05-2011, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgg View Post


I'm a little upset by the fact that the Sheriff's office is at best ignorant of the laws they're entrusted to uphold, and at worst deliberately flaunting them. Perhaps some kind but stern words from CGF would help bring their CCW policies more in line with state law?
I'm gravitating towards deliberately violating such laws.

I'm unsure of how much water such things hold, but I spoke with someone who spoke at length with a DA investigator about the 'must apply to HPD first' policy, and he was told in so many words "they know it's not legal, the policy is political", and "they'll check if you applied to HPD first, and deny you automatically if not"
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  #78  
Old 08-05-2011, 9:06 AM
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Anyone who would *like to* apply to KCSO without jumping through all of the hoops, please send your name, phone, and email address to: bcombs at calgunsfoundation.org.
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  #79  
Old 08-05-2011, 12:12 PM
greasemonkey greasemonkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G60 View Post
I'm gravitating towards deliberately violating such laws.

I'm unsure of how much water such things hold, but I spoke with someone who spoke at length with a DA investigator about the 'must apply to HPD first' policy, and he was told in so many words "they know it's not legal, the policy is political", and "they'll check if you applied to HPD first, and deny you automatically if not"
WHAAAAAAT?! A County Sheriff so brazen as to believe the law does not apply to them...shocking


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  #80  
Old 08-05-2011, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I'd like to setup a meeting with both the KCSO and Hanford PD to discuss these issues. How feasible would it be for you both to join? You can email me at bcombs at calgunsfoundation dot org to discuss offline.

-Brandon
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