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  #1  
Old 04-21-2011, 11:48 PM
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Default S&W Governor

Does anybody have one yet? Or should I just get a Serbu Super Shorty?

Last edited by Damiiaaannn; 07-07-2011 at 9:56 PM..
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2011, 3:55 AM
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Default Not legal in CA...

The S&W Governor, like the Taurus Judge and all other .45LC/.410 handguns, is considered a SBS (Short Barrel Shotgun) under CA laws [PC 12001(f) & 12020(c)(1)(A)&(B)].
Therefore, it is not CA legal and it is a felony for possessing one in CA. [PC 12020(a)(1)]


Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Penal Code 12001
(a)(1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol," "revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."
(b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.
(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun," "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2011, 8:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The S&W Governor, like the Taurus Judge and all other .45LC/.410 handguns, is considered a SBS (Short Barrel Shotgun) under CA laws [PC 12001(f) & 12020(c)(1)(A)&(B)].
Therefore, it is not CA legal and it is a felony for possessing one in CA. [PC 12020(a)(1)]


Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Penal Code 12001
(a)(1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol," "revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."
(b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.
(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun," "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.
No, you're wrong. I can register it as an AOW.
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Old 04-22-2011, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
No, you're wrong. I can register it as an AOW.
How? Details please as I'd presume whatever applies to this gun applies to the Judge and the Bond derringer.
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  #5  
Old 04-22-2011, 8:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
How? Details please as I'd presume whatever applies to this gun applies to the Judge and the Bond derringer.
Getting a trust with a lawyer.
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  #6  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:19 AM
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How will you get past this (assuming that you are not an LEO with an agency head willing to sign a letter for it)?

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2011, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpyoldretiredcop View Post
How will you get past this (assuming that you are not an LEO with an agency head willing to sign a letter for it)?

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
Its either you have chief of LE sign off OR you get a trust with a lawyer. But this will cost almost as much as the gun itself. I'm just wondering if its worth it.
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Old 04-22-2011, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
Its either you have chief of LE sign off OR you get a trust with a lawyer. But this will cost almost as much as the gun itself. I'm just wondering if its worth it.
That would only be true if youre still talking about a NFA trust for AOW's.

The point that grumpy brought up states that in CA, the S&W Governor is not only classified as a SBS, it is also classified as an assault weapon. It is not legal here in any way at all, unless you build a time machine to go back and register it as a RAW.

(or, as mentioned by grumpy, if you are a LEO with an agency head that will sign for you- most won't, even cops dont really need to keep personal aw's at home, theres department weapons for that.)
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Old 04-22-2011, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
That would only be true if youre still talking about a NFA trust for AOW's.

The point that grumpy brought up states that in CA, the S&W Governor is not only classified as a SBS, it is also classified as an assault weapon. It is not legal here in any way at all, unless you build a time machine to go back and register it as a RAW.

(or, as mentioned by grumpy, if you are a LEO with an agency head that will sign for you- most won't, even cops dont really need to keep personal aw's at home, theres department weapons for that.)
PRK in Fresno they can get them. They said you just need to spend atleast $500 for a law trust.
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Old 04-22-2011, 6:36 PM
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With BATFE approval, you can make a .45LC/.410 handgun into an AOW.
As Fed legal AOW, it is legal in CA and exempt from CA's SBS/SBR laws. [PC 12020(b)(8)]

Ways to make it an AOW; replace the rifled barrel with a smoothbore barrel or add a vertical forward grip to it.

However, AOWs are not exempt from CA's assault weapons laws.
And as grumpyoldretiredcop stated, a S&W Governor AOW could be considered an assault weapon due to it's revolving cylinder. [PC 12276.1(a)(8)]
There is some debate to this. Enough that a LEO/ADA may arrest/prosecute you for it and you will have to spend $$$$$ in legal fees to fight it.
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2011, 6:56 PM
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Note that "shotgun" and "short-barreled shotgun" are two separate legal definitions in CA.

Under CA law, a 'short barreled shotgun' is not just a 'shotgun' with a short barrel, and has a completely separate definition. A key difference is that CA-defined SBS status does not depend on rifled vs. unrifled barrels, while the CA defined 'shotgun' includes a 'smoothbore' requirement in addition to being designed/intended to able to be fired from shoulder.

The Taurus Judge, S&W Governor etc. all have rifled barrels but no buttstock and were 'virgin' non-long guns. Thus they could be NFA AOWed thru a trust, and would then fall under the AOW exemption to all the 12020 thou-shalt-nots.

Now also, the 12276.1 definition of AWs includes "any shotgun with a rotating cylinder".

While this definition is not sensitive to SBS (an SBS is a separate entity from a shotgun under CA law per above) - it clearly is not a plain shotgun due to the rifled barrel (smoothbore/lack of rifling is a determiner of shotgun status; note that smoothbore pistols may also trigger 'unconventional pistol' status).

There is already LEO memo floating around on the Taurus? Rossi? "Circuit Judge" 45LC/410Ga carbine with rotating 6-shot cylinder being legal due to no rifling.

I think this is something we'll look into and double check and push - I sure as hell want a Circuit Judge.
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2011, 9:58 PM
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Going to set up a trust soon. Should I get the Governor or Serbu Super Shorty?
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Old 07-08-2011, 7:53 AM
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This is why we need a sticky for the judge and governor or dictator or whatever else they want to call them.
Trust or not it is not possible for your average joe to own one in CA

*Edit*-My mistake I hadnt really read the info in this particular thread, so maybe it is so (if youve got 2k or more burning a hole in your pocket)
I still think there should be a sticky regarding these guns tho....
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Last edited by Killawhale415; 07-08-2011 at 7:59 AM..
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Killawhale415 View Post
This is why we need a sticky for the judge and governor or dictator or whatever else they want to call them.
Trust or not it is not possible for your average joe to own one in CA

*Edit*-My mistake I hadnt really read the info in this particular thread, so maybe it is so (if youve got 2k or more burning a hole in your pocket)
I still think there should be a sticky regarding these guns tho....
I've already talked to my 07 FFL and they said I can register the Governor as an AOW once my trust is set up.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:44 AM
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Do you have a smoothbore barrel in line for it?
Im not trying to be a smart a** im just curious about how this would work out.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:30 PM
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So whats the word, do you have a barrel?
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
I've already talked to my 07 FFL and they said I can register the Governor as an AOW once my trust is set up.
what is your 07 FFL going to do to make it an AOW? A stock Governor is NOT an AOW, and if it it isn't an AOW before it comes into the state, the CAFFL that receives it is guilty of receiving an unregistered SBS.
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