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  #1  
Old 03-25-2011, 5:10 PM
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Unhappy Saiga barrel threading, did not work...

So I got my kit from Dinzag and my brother and I gave it a shot today. It did not go as planned. After watcing videos and reading detailed instruction, all the threader did was thin out the barrel and not make any threads. We followed all instructions to a T and no go. I removed the shrouding with a pipe cutter, that was the easy part.

I guess there is not much I can do at this point, except maybe replace the barrel. It is not damaged functionally, but it looks like ****.

Anyways, here is a pic... (the silver wear marks on the shrouding is from the pip cutter)



Is there anything I can do to fix this? Where can I get a new barrel, if necessary?

Thanks in advance!!!
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2011, 5:15 PM
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your still good to go

you still have plenty of meat on the bone just cut the shroud back a little more and try to thread it again and try to find some scrap metal to practice threading on..
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Old 03-25-2011, 5:18 PM
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looks like its adjusted WAY to tight.
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  #4  
Old 03-25-2011, 5:27 PM
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I can't tell what the hell your threader is doing. I can't see any semblance of threads on the barrel.
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Old 03-25-2011, 6:06 PM
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I think it cut the barrel too thing to ever get threads on the end. Are you sure its still workable?

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Originally Posted by 4thSBCT View Post
your still good to go

you still have plenty of meat on the bone just cut the shroud back a little more and try to thread it again and try to find some scrap metal to practice threading on..

In the video I watched, it said to make sure the die screw was loose and I did.

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Originally Posted by zfields View Post
looks like its adjusted WAY to tight.

Me neither, it never seemed to start threading.

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Originally Posted by 1spartan View Post
I can't tell what the hell your threader is doing. I can't see any semblance of threads on the barrel.
My brother has threaded plenty of things (not a gun barrel) and he said he had never seen that happen before. Can I buy a new Saiga barrel?
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Last edited by WiKDMoNKY; 03-25-2011 at 6:08 PM..
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  #6  
Old 03-25-2011, 6:10 PM
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If you decide to sell your barrel, send me a pm
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2011, 7:34 PM
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If your brother has threaded things before, then threading the barrel is no different. Don't psych yourself out just because it's a rifle. I don't know what you meant by loosening the set screw on the dye?
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2011, 7:41 PM
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Pic of the dye you're using please.
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Old 03-25-2011, 7:57 PM
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I looked at Dinzag Arms and the dye looks like a standard split dye. there is usually a set screw for split on the dye itself. So I get the previous comment on the dye now. It does look like you can still salvage the barrel if you can get the dye to CUT threads on the barrel. The dye should bite and start cutting threads right away.
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  #10  
Old 03-26-2011, 12:53 AM
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Your barrel is fine, most Saiga's are 3/8 strong anyway. At the worst you'll need to pin and weld the muzzle device to get it past 16".
Looks to me like somebody went the the wrong direction or didn't leave enough room in the die to get 2-3 full threads. You need to lock T.A.T. down with whatever muzzle device you plan to use. I would say send it to the shop but I'm pretty backed up at the moment.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:14 AM
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Are you using the muzzle cutter device and then cutting threads, or did you do that smooth a finish just from twisting the die over and over again?

If it was just pulled threads, it was because you didn't remove the TAT after making 3-4 threads in. But nothing in that pic has a resemblance of threads at all.

I threaded 5 barrels on Saturday with Dinzags stuff. We need to know what your using if you want more help.

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  #12  
Old 04-01-2011, 12:56 PM
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Just replace the front sight with a AK74 front sight with 24mm threads. Will cover the screwup.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2011, 1:18 PM
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As mentioned above, it looks like you didn't back off the TAT when you got acouple of threads cut. I think you would have enough to try it again but back off the TAT after acouple of threads are cut into the barrel so you don't rip out the threads again. Don't forget to stop threading when the die bottoms out or you will be ripping the threads out again.

Just my $0.02

Btw, Don't forget to turn left (counter-clockwise) not right to cut threads.

Last edited by Sky_DiveR; 04-01-2011 at 1:24 PM.. Reason: btw
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2011, 9:23 PM
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Is it possible for a muzzle brake to fit, even if it is possible to get the threads going? Could I make this work by replacing my FSB with a Bulgarian threaded FSB? Would it just cover up the end of the barrel or does it need to be tight around the old shrouding?

Is there anyone in the OC area think they can help me with this? I don't feel comfortable trying anything more on my own. I would gladly pay for any help.

Thanks in advance!!!



I did make sure not to bottom out the TAT. In fact just to be sure I always kept it a few threads gap between the barrel and the TAT. It's like it didn't want to thread, it seemed to want to just thin out the barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_DiveR View Post
As mentioned above, it looks like you didn't back off the TAT when you got acouple of threads cut. I think you would have enough to try it again but back off the TAT after acouple of threads are cut into the barrel so you don't rip out the threads again. Don't forget to stop threading when the die bottoms out or you will be ripping the threads out again.

Just my $0.02

Btw, Don't forget to turn left (counter-clockwise) not right to cut threads.
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiKDMoNKY View Post
Is it possible for a muzzle brake to fit, even if it is possible to get the threads going? Could I make this work by replacing my FSB with a Bulgarian threaded FSB? Would it just cover up the end of the barrel or does it need to be tight around the old shrouding?

Is there anyone in the OC area think they can help me with this? I don't feel comfortable trying anything more on my own. I would gladly pay for any help.

Thanks in advance!!!



I did make sure not to bottom out the TAT. In fact just to be sure I always kept it a few threads gap between the barrel and the TAT. It's like it didn't want to thread, it seemed to want to just thin out the barrel.
Did you measure before you.started threading? A few thousands of an inch can make a world of difference when machining.
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:43 PM
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You didn't mention which die set you ordered from Dinzag. What is the printing on the die? Does it say "M14x1LH" on the die? You could check your invoice also to see if they sent you the same/correct die/TAT set.

If you're using a left-hand die and turning clockwise (or a right-hand die and turning counter-clockwise), it won't cut any threads but just strip metal.

Have faith... Stick with it. We'll help ya figure it out.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2011, 10:28 AM
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It is the correct die and TAT. We were definitely turning it to the left. My brother works on Sea-Doo motors for a hobby/side job and he has threaded many parts and he was shocked at how it came out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_DiveR View Post
You didn't mention which die set you ordered from Dinzag. What is the printing on the die? Does it say "M14x1LH" on the die? You could check your invoice also to see if they sent you the same/correct die/TAT set.

If you're using a left-hand die and turning clockwise (or a right-hand die and turning counter-clockwise), it won't cut any threads but just strip metal.

Have faith... Stick with it. We'll help ya figure it out.
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Last edited by WiKDMoNKY; 04-02-2011 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:46 AM
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Did you measure the barrel before you started threading?
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Old 04-02-2011, 12:01 PM
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Take a look at post #17. Looks like this person had the same problem as you.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?...ding-tutorial/

Could this be the solution to the problem you are having?
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Old 04-02-2011, 2:23 PM
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less speed more feed
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Old 04-02-2011, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Did you measure before you.started threading? A few thousands of an inch can make a world of difference when machining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Did you measure the barrel before you started threading?
^^These^^^

There are measurements of major and minor areas of threading. Knowing what your barrel OD would give a HUGE clue as to what is wrong and even what percentage of the threads you are making.

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Old 04-02-2011, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Did you measure before you.started threading? A few thousands of an inch can make a world of difference when machining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Did you measure the barrel before you started threading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccobro View Post
^^These^^^

There are measurements of major and minor areas of threading. Knowing what your barrel OD would give a HUGE clue as to what is wrong and even what percentage of the threads you are making.

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Old 04-02-2011, 3:40 PM
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Well **** howdy, that did the trick!!! Thanks for the link!

Now the question is... Are my choices of MB's limited because I have a 1/4" of no threads? I would like to go with a Tapco Razer or a basic Slant. The AK74 MB looks cool, but it also looks heavy.

Here is what set me straight on the threading...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shootdamoon
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this barrel threading tutorial as it got me through a successful threading job. First ever barrel thread job! However, this was not as easy as the tutorial suggests. Most important thing is you need a LOT of downward pressure to begin the cut. I first started out with the barrel in a vise and applied downward pressure with the threading tool in a counter clock wise direction. It kept turning and not catching. I stripped about 1/8" from the tip of the barrel. This was very frustrating as I spent half an hour trying to get the cut started and going nowhere. So here is what I did. Took the barrel\receiver out of the vise and stood it up on the (padded) floor muzzle facing up. Then attached the threading tool and stood over the barrel and applied my body weight and then began the counter clock wise turn. It instantly caught and began to cut and create the threads. Once it got started I then put it back on the vise and the rest was gravy. Forgot to mention that when you are standing over the muzzel you will use your feet\legs to pinch the receiver so it does not twist as you turn the threading tool on the barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_DiveR View Post
Take a look at post #17. Looks like this person had the same problem as you.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?...ding-tutorial/

Could this be the solution to the problem you are having?
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Old 04-02-2011, 3:48 PM
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Don't listen to me, I know nothing.
Yea, we are well aware of that.
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Old 04-02-2011, 3:51 PM
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Sorry for not responding, I got excited when I read the post that got me going and I started threading. No I did not measure... I went with the thought that they were all (or most) the same and it looks like it is true. I think ultimately the issue was that I was not pushing hard enough and I was bottoming out on the TAP (when I did get some threads going) and ripping the threads out. Glad its a fairly cheap gun, I would have cried if I did it to my DDM4.

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Don't listen to me, I know nothing.
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Old 04-02-2011, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiKDMoNKY View Post
Well **** howdy, that did the trick!!! Thanks for the link!

Now the question is... Are my choices of MB's limited because I have a 1/4" of no threads? I would like to go with a Tapco Razer or a basic Slant. The AK74 MB looks cool, but it also looks heavy.

Here is what set me straight on the threading...
CONGRATS!!!


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Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Don't listen to me, I know nothing.
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Yea, we are well aware of that.
I appreciate your input as well.

Justin
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no it can't!
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Old 04-02-2011, 5:14 PM
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Glad to hear you finally got it... and all by your lonesome too! Good job.

If you don't think that you have enough threads, you can cut the shroud back another 1/4". I see others that are cutting all the way back to the sight base. Perhaps cut on the other side of where you scuffed up the barrel with the pipe cutter. Don't forget you'll need to use a crush washer so that will take up another 1/4" so you may have to do that anyway....

Just a thought....
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Old 04-02-2011, 6:28 PM
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Like I said, less speed more feed!

Glad the OD was correct too, I didnt even think of that assuming its a standard size from the factory.
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Old 04-02-2011, 9:16 PM
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I got about 10 threads made and would have no problem cutting more shrouding to make more, I just want to make sure I don't have a bunch of threads showing after installing a MB. Does anyone know the thread length (and over all length) on the standard slant muzzle brake? In some pictures the look short and in other they look like they are about 2".

Thanks again for the replies and the awesome support!
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Old 04-02-2011, 9:36 PM
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My Tapco Slant Brake measures ~0.500" for the threads (measures about the same as my barrel nut) and ~0.670 til it bottoms out.

Total overall length ~1.320"

Last edited by Sky_DiveR; 04-02-2011 at 9:38 PM..
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:01 PM
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I just found this...

http://www.cncwarrior.com/comersus/s...p?idProduct=35

So it appears I have some options in length. I think I will grab a Tapco slant brake at RG next week and see if the small one works. If it doesn't, then I will grab one of the longer ones from CNCW.
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Last edited by WiKDMoNKY; 04-02-2011 at 10:20 PM..
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:20 PM
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SJgunguy24 SJgunguy24 is offline
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1/2" is pretty good baseline for threads. The only reason to really adjust that measurement is to index a muzzle device without using any washers or for a finished 1 piece look.
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Old 04-03-2011, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
1/2" is pretty good baseline for threads. The only reason to really adjust that measurement is to index a muzzle device without using any washers or for a finished 1 piece look.
This is how I determine exact FSB depth on new barrel builds.

It's the little things that make a "home build" that much better than off the rack.

Justin
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Old 04-03-2011, 5:46 PM
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This is how I determine exact FSB depth on new barrel builds.

It's the little things that make a "home build" that much better than off the rack.

Justin
Couldn't agree with you more. The difference between a 500$ AK and a 700$ AK is the craftmanship and finish of the final product. Pull the bolt carrier back and you can feel if the builder smoothed out the rails and put that little kick that smooths the rail -trunnion transition. Clocking Muzzle devices and even a little white paint on the front post are some of the things that make a difference.
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