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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 04-30-2007, 4:54 PM
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Here's something else I found:

California Restraining Order, Page 2:
Quote:
12. No Guns or Other Firearms
The person [...] cannot own, possess, have, buy or try to buy, receive or try to receive, or in any other way
get a gun or firearm.
13. Turn in or sell guns and firearms.
The person[...]:
* Must sell to a licensed gun dealer or turn in to police any guns or firearms that he or she has or controls. This must be done within 24 hours of receiving this order.
* Must bring a receipt to the court within 72 hours of receiving this order, to prove that guns and firearms have been turned in or sold.
If it was issued today, he has ONE day.


LESSON FOR GUNOWNERS:

If you have the misfortune of being hit with a Restraining Order(e.g bitter ex), ACT FAST TO GET RID OF YOUR GUNS. Or you could be charged with a FELONY. Perhaps even MULTIPLE felonies if you have more than one gun.

Last edited by G-dude; 04-30-2007 at 5:18 PM..
  #82  
Old 04-30-2007, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-dude View Post

"Restraining order issued too."
What the heck? By who, I wonder? The school maybe? Unless some individual he knows personally is involved. The plot thickens.
Removed my post... Just going to keep my mouth shut.
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Last edited by aileron; 04-30-2007 at 4:58 PM..
  #83  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
I wonder if there is a licensed gun dealer that will buy your guns and promise to safely store them for a fee and agree to sell them back you later date (if possible) to cover situations like this. Seems like it could be a money maker and a good service to boot.
Don't gun shops already do that regularly? I know mine does. Take possession and hold, then you retrieve; or if the restraining order isn't removed or you so choose we simply buy them outright or transfer them to whoever you arrange to sell them to.
  #84  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKTALN View Post
kcal9.com has updated video
Actually, that was a pretty fair treatment.
  #85  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aileron View Post
Removed my post... Just going to keep my mouth shut.
Well, as regards the Restraining Order, it's been already reported in the KCAL TV News report, so it's seems it's common knowledge now. The reporter mentioned it was the school that took out the restraining order and explained that Mr. Corwin cannot come within X amount of feet of school grounds while it's in effect.

So we now know it was the school.

It's a pretty easy assumption for me how they got it:

DA or Police Official: "Mr. School Dean, we have found a cache of weapons and we believe this student may pose a threat to your school and fellow students. We strongly advise you to seek out a restraining order for your safety and the school's."

School Dean: "OK."

Last edited by G-dude; 04-30-2007 at 5:34 PM..
  #86  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by G-dude View Post
Well, as regards the Restraining Order, it's been already reported in the KCAL TV News report, so it's seems it's common knowledge now. The reporter mentioned it was the school that took out the restraining order and explained that Mr. Corwin cannot come within X amount of feet of school grounds while it's in effect.

So we now know it was the school.

It's a pretty easy assumption for me how they got it:

DA or Police Official: "Mr. School Dean, we have found a chache of weapons and we believe this student may pose a threat to your school and fellow students. We strongly advise you to seek out a restraining order for your safety and the school's."

School Dean: "OK."

That is completley stupid......

If he poses a threat to the school... i.e. he is going to shoot up fellow students... do you actually think a restraining order will stop him??
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  #87  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:17 PM
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I'm just curious how you would comply and what the compliance period would be if you remain in custody.
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  #88  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:25 PM
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The lawyer for ELAC was handed a copy of the order and walked right out.

I am sure this is all public info by now.

Good to see fellow calgunners there!

Prayers out to M.A.C.
  #89  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:27 PM
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I didn't think you could take out a restraining order just because you didn't like someone's looks -- or what weapons he owns. I thought there was more of a burden of proof than that.

How many times have you heard the police say they can't take out a restraining order until something happens?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven!
  #90  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:27 PM
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I'm not suggesting anyone break the law so don't get bent out of shape, this is just a theoretical question. So lets say you find out you got a RO on you, and then you immediately call up your good buddy who lives way out in the boonies who takes them all for you. Couldn't you potentially get away with this because that means they have to research what you had and ask you where they all are. I mean you could say they were all stolen awhile back. Than if your lucky and the judge or DA thinks its not important, they'll forget about it and when the RO is finally done and gone (hopefully) you can go to said buddy and collect. I'm sure this has happened in the past.
  #91  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
I'm not suggesting anyone break the law so don't get bent out of shape, this is just a theoretical question. So lets say you find out you got a RO on you, and then you immediately call up your good buddy who lives way out in the boonies who takes them all for you. Couldn't you potentially get away with this because that means they have to research what you had and ask you where they all are. I mean you could say they were all stolen awhile back. Than if your lucky and the judge or DA thinks its not important, they'll forget about it and when the RO is finally done and gone (hopefully) you can go to said buddy and collect. I'm sure this has happened in the past.
In order for a RO to be in force it must be legally served.... If a RO is granted but no one has given legal service then it is not in effect. With regards to ROs it just means that one cannot be in POSESSION of the guns. If one leaves them locked up at a friend's house he does not have to transfer ownership. On conviction there is a time limit for transferring the firearms to someone else.
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The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
  #92  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
That is completley stupid......

If he poses a threat to the school... i.e. he is going to shoot up fellow students... do you actually think a restraining order will stop him??
Of course I don't personally believe that, I was just stating a possible scenario in my mind of why the school would get a restraining order against a student who was very socially active in school and had otherwise good moral character and standing. He wasn't some wacky loner.

It's even doubly stupid, considering he is ALREADY in custody

I can only assume that Prosecutors or LE Officials pushed for the restraining order knowing full well that would strip him of his firearms. And that's probably their ultimate goal in this case, wether they will continue to seek felony charges or not.

Last edited by G-dude; 04-30-2007 at 6:15 PM..
  #93  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:33 PM
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i don't know about you guys, but all my guns were lost last weekend in an unfortunate boating accident.
  #94  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMansDad View Post
I didn't think you could take out a restraining order just because you didn't like someone's looks -- or what weapons he owns. I thought there was more of a burden of proof than that.

How many times have you heard the police say they can't take out a restraining order until something happens?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven!
Domestic violence complaints are guaranteed a RO. In order for an RO to be granted, just cause must be shown to a judge. Obviously someone successfully argued that if this guy makes bail he could seek revenge on his classmates.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
  #95  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
I'm not suggesting anyone break the law so don't get bent out of shape, this is just a theoretical question. So lets say you find out you got a RO on you, and then you immediately call up your good buddy who lives way out in the boonies who takes them all for you. Couldn't you potentially get away with this because that means they have to research what you had and ask you where they all are. I mean you could say they were all stolen awhile back. Than if your lucky and the judge or DA thinks its not important, they'll forget about it and when the RO is finally done and gone (hopefully) you can go to said buddy and collect. I'm sure this has happened in the past.

You are better off going to a friend and selling him everything. Just pay a buttload of ppt fees.
  #96  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morelli View Post
Since he has the restraining order, TEN PERCENT, would you be willing to have his firearms transferred to you for "safe keeping" until he is exonerated?
ABSOLUTELY!!!
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  #97  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:42 PM
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  #98  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:48 PM
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ABSOLUTELY!!!
I knew you would have room in that huge safe you just bought
you couldn't have that many pink rifles..
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  #99  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:48 PM
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Liberty1,

Welcome to calguns! PM sent. It was good to meet you at the hearing today.

WMD
  #100  
Old 04-30-2007, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Thanks Wes.... I doubt any firearms remained at the house.... the cops are good at things like that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
  #101  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:05 PM
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I talked to my wife. I've got a little kitty started, I'm going to sacrifice buying a motor for my new track-bike build for a while. I'll keep accumulating what little I can for the cause.
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  #102  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:10 PM
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If they are serious,

Someone here should contact his lawyers FAST and let them know there is an FFL available that will accept any guns that weren't already confiscated.

HE HAS 24 HOURS FROM TODAY TO GET RID OF THEM AND & 72 HOURS TO PROVIDE PROOF TO A JUDGE THAT HE HAS.

I agree, though, that they're all probably already in police custody.
  #103  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:11 PM
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Default Best wishes BWO

If there is anything I can do $$$ or otherwise count me in. Until then my thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.
  #104  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:14 PM
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Just caught the tail end of a KFI newsbit, reporter Eric Leonard said that all of the rifles found in BWO's possession can be legally bought in California.
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  #105  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach View Post
Just caught the tail end of a KFI newsbit, reporter Eric Leonard said that all of the rifles found in BWO's possession can be legally bought in California.
:thumbup Nice!
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  #106  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:35 PM
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Wow..... Been reading through this thread. I was up in Tahoe this weekend for my wedding anniversary and wasn't around my computer for most of the time. Looks like a lot has been happening......

I was just getting ready to send him a pair of NV goggles I have when I returned..... Glad I didn't do it before I left as the *****s in the media probably would have been plastering "evil night vision" and "military equipment" on the news..... I hate the media.
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  #107  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:40 PM
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I had something lengthy written up, but do not want to add fuel.

Good luck to BWO.

Let me know when it is time to "pass the hat".

RR
  #108  
Old 04-30-2007, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Time from arraignment to trial cannot be more than 30 days if in custody; 45 days if not in custody... anything more than that and charges MUST be dismissed.

He has not yet been arraigned... council no doubt waived time for arraignment... once they do that the clock resets.... once he is arraigned they will have 30 days to commence trial.
Take a look at Penal Code 1382.

In any Felony case its 60 days from arraignment, even if the defendant is in custody.

In any infraction or misdemeanor case its 45 days unless the defendant is in custody, in which case its 30 days.

Considering this is a felony case, the 60 day rule applies.

Also, there is a 10 day leeway to the speedy trial doctrine. For a defendant to have a case dismissed on these grounds he must also show how the delay prejudiced the case. Not nearly as cut and dry as you explained. This has all been hashed out through the Appellate Courts.

Another point to take note of is the DA can simply drop the charges if he is coming close to the deadline and refile later. There is nothing that prohibits the DA from refiling the case at a future date as long as the statute of limitations has not run out.
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  #109  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach View Post
Just caught the tail end of a KFI newsbit, reporter Eric Leonard said that all of the rifles found in BWO's possession can be legally bought in California.
Heard the same comments on AM790 this morning.

I guess we'll all know more soon enough. Now that he has legal representation and things are moving forward, I don't expect we'll know any "facts" until they go back to court.
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  #110  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomIsNotFree View Post
Take a look at Penal Code 1382.

In any Felony case its 60 days from arraignment, even if the defendant is in custody.

In any infraction or misdemeanor case its 45 days unless the defendant is in custody, in which case its 30 days.

Considering this is a felony case, the 60 day rule applies.

Also, there is a 10 day leeway to the speedy trial doctrine. For a defendant to have a case dismissed on these grounds he must also show how the delay prejudiced the case. Not nearly as cut and dry as you explained. This has all been hashed out through the Appellate Courts.

Another point to take note of is the DA can simply drop the charges if he is coming close to the deadline and refile later. There is nothing that prohibits the DA from refiling the case at a future date as long as the statute of limitations has not run out.
Thanks for the clarification.... obviously I have never been charged with a felony... I was drawing on personal experience.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
  #111  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
In order for a RO to be in force it must be legally served.... If a RO is granted but no one has given legal service then it is not in effect. With regards to ROs it just means that one cannot be in POSESSION of the guns. If one leaves them locked up at a friend's house he does not have to transfer ownership. On conviction there is a time limit for transferring the firearms to someone else.

It seems you are partially correct. You can have a friend collect them. However, "the [BATF] approved method of storage is with an attorney, with the police or sheriff, or with an approved firearms dealer." You CANNOT, it seems, CANNOT HAVE A FRIEND HOLD THEM.

From Restraining Order Facts:

Quote:

• Get rid of any guns or ammunition you may have.

From the time the restraining order is imposed until it is cleared from all databases it is a violation of Federal law 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8), a.k.a. the Lautenberg Amendment, to purchase, acquire, or be in possession of
firearms, ammunition, or other dangerous weapons, e.g., swords, grenades, explosives, etc.

This is a federal felony with a mandatory minimum of 5 years in prison if convicted.[Sweet Jesus!]

Collectors items are held to be in this category as well.

“In possession” generally means in the same room as, or in close proximity to. If you are visiting a friend and they have a gun collection, you can be held to be in violation and could be sentenced to five years (minimum) in prison.[!!!!!]

If you have a gun collection, swords, etc., the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, and Tobacco (BATF) approved method of storage is with an attorney, with the police or sheriff, or with an approved firearms dealer.

Have a friend or relative collect them for you and remove them to an approved storage location until after you are sure the restraining order has been lifted and your name removed from the state and federal databases. That will usually require a separate motion to the court or personally carrying a certified copy of the court order of dismissal to a Colorado Bureau of Investigation office. [My bad, it's Colorado, but still probably good guidelines for here, too]

• Always carry a copy of the restraining order with you to show police if you are stopped.
The order will have specific terms you must meet and sometimes you can avoid arrest by presenting the
officers the specific terms of the order and showing them you have not violated any of the restrictions.
[Emphasees mine]

Last edited by G-dude; 04-30-2007 at 7:25 PM..
  #112  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-dude View Post
It seems you are partially correct. You can have a friend collect them. However, "the [BATF] approved method of storage is with an attorney, with the police or sheriff, or with an approved firearms dealer." You CANNOT, it seems, CANNOT HAVE A FRIEND HOLD THEM.

From Restraining Order Facts:
Just because it is BATFE "approved" does not mean it is the law.

You quoted the law and it says "to purchase, acquire, or be in possession of
firearms, ammunition, or other dangerous weapons".

If one places them in a locked safe at a friend's house that meets the criterian of the law. Not to say that the "approved" way would not be better legally.... it does not change the fact.


P.S.
Cal DOJ does not approve of Off-list firearms.... but the law says otherwise.
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  #113  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:25 PM
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I think the CADOJ has said, through many letters, that OLL's are legal. They just disagree with us as to how, if at all, they can be built up. You know...the old paper weight theory...
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  #114  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:28 PM
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365K bail? I think we need to call this guy...

  #115  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:28 PM
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I think the CADOJ has said, through many letters, that OLL's are legal. They just disagree with us as to how, if at all, they can be built up. You know...the old paper weight theory...
You show me a DOJ letter that says one thing, and I will show you one that says the opposite..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
  #116  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
You show me a DOJ letter that says one thing, and I will show you one that says the opposite..
Well, the fact that we are able to purchase OLL's in this state is clear evidence that the CADOJ does approve.
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  #117  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
You show me a DOJ letter that says one thing, and I will show you one that says the opposite..
In two weeks, I'll show you one that says neither existed.
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  #118  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Just because it is BATFE "approved" does not mean it is the law.

You quoted the law and it says "to purchase, acquire, or be in possession of
firearms, ammunition, or other dangerous weapons".

If one places them in a locked safe at a friend's house that meets the criterian of the law. Not to say that the "approved" way would not be better legally.... it does not change the fact.
Rgr that.

Just wanted clarification for myself and others. God forbid anyone here find themselves in a similar situation and has to face a 5 year mandatory sentence(!) for getting a technicality wrong.

BTW, I'm a new member, but as a lurker I've enjoyed very much yours and FreedomIsNotFree's posts. You've both been very educational, along with this entire site, for me.

Last edited by G-dude; 04-30-2007 at 7:39 PM..
  #119  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
You show me a DOJ letter that says one thing, and I will show you one that says the opposite..
Do you have any letters from the DOJ "approving" any of the mag-lock kits, creative grips, bullet-button, etc?

The only thing I've seen the DOJ concede is that OLLs are legal. Everytime someone asks about a specific build or creative grip or something, they just cut and paste the law and say something about "58 DAs"
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Last edited by Crazed_SS; 04-30-2007 at 7:46 PM..
  #120  
Old 04-30-2007, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed_SS View Post
Do you have any letters from the DOJ "approving" any of the mag-lock kits, creative grips, bullet-button, etc?

The only thing I've see the DOJ concede is that OLLs are legal. Everytime someone asks about a specific build or creative grip or something, they just cut and paste the law and say something about "58 DAs"
I think there is only written law, not opinion for that.

<edit>

Ima gonna keep the rest of what I thought at bay. Make them work for it.
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