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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 02-11-2011, 9:27 AM
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Default CCW Firing Qualifications

Sorry if this is a re-hash but I could find nothing on it.

I have a CCW application in the works and have been curious about the shooting part of the qualifications. What does this usually involve? I never see any one mention it, so I assume it's pretty simple and straightforward.

More importantly, what is a good level of training to get and have? I'm looking into taking courses at Front Site or similar, ideally something in the Sacramento area.

Thanks to all.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:39 AM
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There is no standard , it is up to your instructor.
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Old 02-11-2011, 4:12 PM
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I was just about to ask the same question.

Could some of you reveal what the qualification requirements were when you last qualified?

I assume the shooting qualifications, whatever they are, would be the same whether for the original class, the renewal class, or the annual qualification between renewal classes. Am I right?

I was told today that you had to qualify from 3, 7, and 15 yards. Sound right?

Thanks,

Sweaty
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Old 02-11-2011, 4:20 PM
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There is no standard CCW qualification in CA. It all depends on the issuing county. Most qualifications are pretty lame, just a few rounds and no time limit.
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Old 02-11-2011, 4:37 PM
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It goes something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJdmn...eature=related


Seriously, I have had mine since 1993 and the range qualification have evolved as time went by. In addition, some departments do not do their own firearms training and where that is the case 'Tackleberry' will have to qualify once at each phase, the private company and the LE range. Fire frequently and get as familiar as possible with your carry weapon(s). Stay safe.

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Old 02-11-2011, 4:53 PM
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Tiberius: Generally the Security companies use the BSIS qualification shoot. Individual instructors can use their own course of fire. My instructor had us shoot the same COF that I had in my PC 832 course a few years ago. When I added a pistol to my license, the COF was different yet again. There is no standard set by the County, it's up to your instructor whether or not you pass/fail.
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Old 02-11-2011, 5:29 PM
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Its easy up here in Del Norte County. I just renewed last month and I shot from I think 5, 7, and 10 yards. Fired 50 rounds total, he didn't care what gun I used as long as I fired at least 1 mag from each.

We started at 10 yards and he told me to take as much time as I wanted. I fired 1 mag from each gun at 10 yards.

Then we moved up and he had me draw and fire quickly from the holster. He said go, then I was supposed to draw and fire 2-5 rounds as quickly as possible. When I got my permit 2 years ago I just fired from low ready and didn't use a holster.

We shot at a round target that was probably around 12" he didn't keep score or anything. I think he mainly wanted to make sure I was comfortable and handling the gun safely since I shot pretty poor when I first got my permit (I shoot a lot better since I started shooting my handguns more).

The best part is the guy doing the test is really cool. I called him and was able to do the test the same day and he only charged me $20. We did the written stuff at his dining room table and shot behind his neighbors house.

Funny story when we were shooting someone started yelling at us from up on the hill (not the direction we were shooting). We stopped to see what he wanted and it was a cop yelling at us to move to the front of the truck.

So I holstered my p226 and we walked to the front of the truck where he could see us. He said we scared the s*** out of him and it sounded like we were shooting over the road when he drove by. We of course weren't shooting anywhere near the road, we where shooting into a huge backstop from 10 yards.

He was fine once he realized we were being safe but he did say if he gets any noise complaints he will have to shut us down. My instructor told him that he did the CCW permits for the sheriff and he qualified people there all the time but the cop just kept saying if he gets any complaints he will have to shut us down.
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Old 02-11-2011, 5:38 PM
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Here's Santa Clara SO's course if fire:

Five shots at 15 yards in 30 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
Five shots at 10 yards in 20 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
Five shots at 7 yards in 10 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
(Seeing a pattern here yet?)
Five shots at 3 yards in 5 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.

All on a standard full size B-27 silhouette target, to pass qualification, 80% of your shots have to fall within the 8-ring.

Pretty darn easy stuff.


Here's (longish) post on re-qualing back in 2008:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...a+clara+county
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Old 02-11-2011, 7:30 PM
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In Riverside County you go to the range at the Ben Clark Training center. The range master inspects your guns and fills out a form with the serial numbers of the guns you are going to qualify with.

You have to fire a full mag (10 rounds in you have pre-ban mags) from 15 yards at two standard silhouette (NRA B-27) targets. You start from the low ready. 2 shots to the chest on one target, then 2 shots to the chest to the second. Repeat until you gun is empty.

You then move up to 10 yards and repeat the same process.

Last you move up to 7 yards. From this starting point the process is 2 shots to the chest and 1 to the head on the first target, then 2 shots to the chest 1 to the head on the second target. Repeat until your gun is empty.

You have to qualify with each gun that you want on your permit. Make sure you bring enough ammo. There are no restrictions on type of ammo you can shoot.

You need 70% hits on the target to pass. They also make you wear body armor (which they provide).
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Old 02-11-2011, 9:05 PM
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Yuba County, "Conseale" CCW Training. Its been over a year since I qualified, but IIRC: No time limit, silhouette target from 3, 7, and 15 yards, 100% of shots fired need to be within target outline. Minimum 6 rounds at each distance from each permit weapon.
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Here's Santa Clara SO's course if fire:

Five shots at 15 yards in 30 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
Five shots at 10 yards in 20 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
Five shots at 7 yards in 10 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
(Seeing a pattern here yet?)
Five shots at 3 yards in 5 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.

All on a standard full size B-27 silhouette target, to pass qualification, 80% of your shots have to fall within the 8-ring.

Pretty darn easy stuff.


Here's (longish) post on re-qualing back in 2008:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...a+clara+county
I sure would like the opportunity to qualify for my Santa Clara County CCW!

I'm aware of your story QBG so I understand why you have yours, but we all shouldn't have to live through a shootout to get a CCW!
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2011, 7:52 PM
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Here's CSTA's course of fire in Sacramento:

Note: this is primarily a BSIS course of fire for armed security guards, but they lump all the CCW'ers in there as well... you'll be amazed at how inexperienced the majority of the guard class is with a firearm, and also remember to bring your own decent quality FULL wrap-around eye protection if you qualify at Mangan in Sacramento. Trust me, you'll thank me later for that tip other than that, CSTA is the cheapest place in Sac to get your 16 hours & qualify plus they give you free ammo for the first gun! Ken has an interesting sense of humor, and he's a decent instructor too.


Stage 1: 15 yards, 6 rounds in 30 seconds.

Stage 2: 7 yards, 14 rounds in 45 seconds with a reload (6 standing / 8 kneeling)

Stage 3: 7 yards, 12 rounds unsupported (one-handed) in 25 seconds with a reload (6/6)

Stage 4: 7 yards, 6 rounds in 10 seconds.

Stage 5 (x2): 5 yards, 3 rounds in 4 seconds.

Stage 6 (x3): 3 yards, 2 rounds in 3 seconds.


All stages begin with a holstered weapon (open) and you don't re-holster until the RO gives the decock/weapon safe/holster command otherwise you'll get yelled at, haha. Hope that helps =)
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2011, 7:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsi2451 View Post
Its easy up here in Del Norte County. I just renewed last month and I shot from I think 5, 7, and 10 yards. Fired 50 rounds total, he didn't care what gun I used as long as I fired at least 1 mag from each.

We started at 10 yards and he told me to take as much time as I wanted. I fired 1 mag from each gun at 10 yards.

Then we moved up and he had me draw and fire quickly from the holster. He said go, then I was supposed to draw and fire 2-5 rounds as quickly as possible. When I got my permit 2 years ago I just fired from low ready and didn't use a holster.

We shot at a round target that was probably around 12" he didn't keep score or anything. I think he mainly wanted to make sure I was comfortable and handling the gun safely since I shot pretty poor when I first got my permit (I shoot a lot better since I started shooting my handguns more).

The best part is the guy doing the test is really cool. I called him and was able to do the test the same day and he only charged me $20. We did the written stuff at his dining room table and shot behind his neighbors house.

Funny story when we were shooting someone started yelling at us from up on the hill (not the direction we were shooting). We stopped to see what he wanted and it was a cop yelling at us to move to the front of the truck.

So I holstered my p226 and we walked to the front of the truck where he could see us. He said we scared the s*** out of him and it sounded like we were shooting over the road when he drove by. We of course weren't shooting anywhere near the road, we where shooting into a huge backstop from 10 yards.

He was fine once he realized we were being safe but he did say if he gets any noise complaints he will have to shut us down. My instructor told him that he did the CCW permits for the sheriff and he qualified people there all the time but the cop just kept saying if he gets any complaints he will have to shut us down.
Good story. I woked up there in 1991. It was wild. No backup a lot of the time. I also took patients from Pelican Bay to the only ER in Cresent City.
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Old 02-15-2011, 9:20 AM
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For Sac County and most others, the course of fire is determined by the instructor. Amador County and a few others mandate a specific course of fire and even a specific target. Here's the course of fire that I use, unless the issuing agency mandates a specific one:
15 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
7 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
3 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
Your reload can either be an emergency or tactical reload, either is perfectly fine.
All shooting is performed standing, strong side, two handed, and drawn from the holster.
You must achieve at least 85% of your shots (31 out of 36 or 26 out of 30) in the large center thoracic cavity on a TQ-15 target.
If using a 5-shot firearm, you only need to shoot 5 rounds, reload, then 5 more rounds at each distance.
After everyone has qualified, we usually get to practice a bunch more shooting positions, rapid fire, multiple target, shooting while moving drills and more!! Much thanks is given to the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center for allowing the facilities for us to train the way we would need to shoot in a defensive situation.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccwtrainer View Post
For Sac County and most others, the course of fire is determined by the instructor. Amador County and a few others mandate a specific course of fire and even a specific target. Here's the course of fire that I use, unless the issuing agency mandates a specific one:
15 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
7 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
3 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds

Your reload can either be an emergency or tactical reload, either is perfectly fine.
All shooting is performed standing, strong side, two handed, and drawn from the holster.
You must achieve at least 85% of your shots (31 out of 36 or 26 out of 30) in the large center thoracic cavity on a TQ-15 target.
If using a 5-shot firearm, you only need to shoot 5 rounds, reload, then 5 more rounds at each distance.
After everyone has qualified, we usually get to practice a bunch more shooting positions, rapid fire, multiple target, shooting while moving drills and more!! Much thanks is given to the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center for allowing the facilities for us to train the way we would need to shoot in a defensive situation.
This was the same course of fire for my PC 832 class... and was what I shot in Wes's class. There was a student in my class that had a different course of fire that was mandated by his County Sheriff... but that was made to work. And I can testify to the shooting "free time" after everyone has qualified. We got to do a lot more than just stand there and shoot. Sac Valley is a great facility and allows Wes to do that extra training. That was talked about in my PC 832 class, but because of the range construction, we couldn't do a lot of that stuff.

If you take one of Wes's classes, definitely stick around for the "extra curricular" shooting after qualification. You'll find it fun, informative, instructive, and fun.
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Old 02-15-2011, 4:06 PM
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Hat's off to WES for an AWESOME class this weekend.. The "extra curricular" shooting after qualification was priceless. You can't get the action shooting at any range I have ever been to..

Highly recommend Wes' class to any fellow CCW applicants.
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Old 02-15-2011, 4:41 PM
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Is this the course taken after the acceptance of application by the County to which you applied? Also, I am in the area that Wesley does instruction and I hope he does not have as long a waiting list as Sac County does. I wish I had scheduled my appointment a few months ago.
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Old 02-15-2011, 4:44 PM
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When you qualify, do you need to bring a holster?
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:11 PM
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Whay 16 hour class instruction is recommended for those living in Solano County.

Is Baptist security Training good?
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainShooter View Post
Is this the course taken after the acceptance of application by the County to which you applied? Also, I am in the area that Wesley does instruction and I hope he does not have as long a waiting list as Sac County does. I wish I had scheduled my appointment a few months ago.
You really can take the class anytime near or during your application process. In Sac County, the course certificate is good for two years and the range qualification is good for one year (I have e-mail correspondence straight from Amber Wong solidifying this information). The only reason I would suggest waiting is if you believe that there's something in your background that may disqualify you.

You'll want to contact me and schedule a class a few weeks in advance, as my classes are filling up faster and faster. Consequently, I am doing more and more classes per month. Also, I'm very open to accommodate you if you need specific days, provided you let me know far enough in advance.
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigsr View Post
When you qualify, do you need to bring a holster?
That depends on the instructor that you choose to go through. In my classes, it would be unsafe to not have a holster, simply because of the range layout. Besides, it's so much more fun and realistic to get to draw from the holster, rapid fire, shoot while moving, engage multiple targets, etc. Although most of that's not part of the qualification, it's stuff that I'm sure 99.9% of us really want to do and hardly ever get to.
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigsr View Post
When you qualify, do you need to bring a holster?
Santa Clara SO's requires you draw from a holster and will not let you qualify without one. I *was* going to put a little NAA .32 Guardian once upon a time, figured I'd just pocket carry. Nope, no holster, no qualify.
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:27 PM
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on the tq-15 target, a hit qualifies if its in the small square outline or the large white outline?
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:49 PM
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When I took Wes' class, it was the large white outline that qualifies. Even if the hit breaks the line - it counted.
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Old 02-15-2011, 5:50 PM
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Yep. That's correct.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:03 AM
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I did 5 7 and 15 in a man target. Instructor said go ahead and practice each first. When I had done it and said I was ready to start, he said, "you're done". Made it easy.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Santa Clara SO's requires you draw from a holster and will not let you qualify without one. I *was* going to put a little NAA .32 Guardian once upon a time, figured I'd just pocket carry. Nope, no holster, no qualify.
That sucks. Those NAA .32 Guardians, much like the Seecamp LWS', Beretta 3032's amongst other, are great summertime pocket guns. I do highly recommend that you use a pocket holster of some kind ... and of course that you never put anything else in that pocket when you're carrying that way.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:10 AM
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^yes a pocket holster was the plan, but I figured on just qualifying and them picking one up. Oh well, their house, their rules.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:06 AM
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When I took my class through LFI Wes was very accommodating he even loaned some of his own holsters out to guys that had not gotten theirs in yet.
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Old 03-01-2011, 4:47 PM
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Default Non Static Line Qualification

I present a CCW course in Sacramento County. My qualification course is a shooting and moving course of fire. After the first day and a half of my course most students have no problem negotiating the course, utilizing cover and hitting the threats in the 10 ring...The counties that are still using static line are just following an older methodology.
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Old 03-05-2011, 7:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
Sorry if this is a re-hash but I could find nothing on it.

I have a CCW application in the works and have been curious about the shooting part of the qualifications. What does this usually involve? I never see any one mention it, so I assume it's pretty simple and straightforward.

More importantly, what is a good level of training to get and have? I'm looking into taking courses at Front Site or similar, ideally something in the Sacramento area.

Thanks to all.

This is a point I have been thinking about a lot now that CA is starting to issue CCWs. I personally believe the SAME state or NRA standard should be followed by each instructor. Otherwise each student learns only what was asked of them. Everyone in my opinion should get the same basic training with the option of more training in other advanced classes. It makes sense to me.
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