Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-12-2011, 2:57 PM
joefrank64k's Avatar
joefrank64k joefrank64k is offline
@ the Dark End of the Bar
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 8,218
iTrader: 198 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default Gun surprise: 2nd Amendment advocate says ban on high-capacity clips passes muster

Wow...just, wow.

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...-passes-muster

A leading gun rights advocate says there is no constitutional barrier to restricting the sale of high-capacity gun magazines such as the one used by accused Tucson shooter Jared Loughner and that such proposals are justified to prevent “looney tunes” from committing more gun massacres.


Robert A. Levy, who served as co-counsel in the landmark 2008 Supreme Court case that established a Second Amendment right to bear arms, said there was no reason the court’s decision in that case should apply to the purchase of high-capacity gun magazines.


“I don’t see any constitutional bar to regulating high-capacity magazines,” Levy said in an interview with NBC. “Justice (Antonin) Scalia made it quite clear some regulations are permitted. The Second Amendment is not absolute.”...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:02 PM
Flopper's Avatar
Flopper Flopper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,285
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

W

T

F

__________________
Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound. -- L. Neil Smith

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:04 PM
Vanilla Gorilla's Avatar
Vanilla Gorilla Vanilla Gorilla is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,921
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

wow
__________________
Quote:
That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. Dosen't show up on your airport X-ray machines, here, and it cost more than you make in a month.
-John McClane
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:06 PM
Legasat's Avatar
Legasat Legasat is offline
Intergalactic Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego North County
Posts: 4,116
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

They will NEVER stop.

This is why WE have to keep vigilant!!!
__________________
.
.
COTEP #227



SAF Life Member


NRA Benefactor
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:19 PM
CCWFacts CCWFacts is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,310
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

This isn't bad. This is being interpreted out of the context of understanding what it means. He's just saying that the RKBA isn't absolute, just like no right is absolute. He's also acknowledging that the court didn't define the limits of the right or the level of scrutiny.

Unfortunately most readers won't understand that he's talking about nuances here.
__________________
NRA life member

Exposing Leftists
Zomblog
The future of California?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:22 PM
anthonyca anthonyca is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,110
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The people on calguns are the hard core gun owners. About 75% of he guys I work with own at least one gun, or go shooting or hunting with friends. I only know of one other guy there who is a strong second amendment supporter.

Here are the things I hear from other gun owners. " you think your still in the Army and you need that" " I already got my AW, so I don't care" "why do you need to have more than 10'rounds?" "ya, you really need that AR to take a deer " "there is no reason to have thousands of rounds, the Chinese are not attacking" "why would you even want a CCW?" " I don't care that antestraining order on an argument can let them take your guns, my wife is cool,'and I'm not a wife beater". These are all quotes from people who hunt or own guns.

What do most people say? Ya, most people say we should be able to own guns, but they are thinking of a six shooter or pump shotgun with 5 rounds. Look at the polls. And what does the government think? We already know they hate freedom.

Look, the Health care vote was the most contested vote ever. We shut down the congressional switch board by over loading it fore Pete's sake, but it passed.

I am not holding my breath for them not to trample more rights due to this nut job going on this murder spree.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:22 PM
MasterYong's Avatar
MasterYong MasterYong is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Humboldt County California
Posts: 2,737
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

This has to be taken out of context.

He's right, but I highly doubt he's advocating such issues.

I don't AGREE with him being right, but I don't see anything in the constitution's actual text or the recent SCOTUS decisions that would prevent such a ban. The actual INTENTION of the constitution on the other hand surely covers high-caps, IMHO.

...from my cold, dead hands...one bullet at a time... etc etc etc
__________________
01001100 01100101 01100001 01110010 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110011 01110111 01101001 01101101 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100100 01101111 01110111 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100001 01110010 01101001 01111010 01101111 01101110 01100001 00100000 01100010 01100001 01111001 00101110

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:26 PM
MasterYong's Avatar
MasterYong MasterYong is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Humboldt County California
Posts: 2,737
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
The people on calguns are the hard core gun owners. About 75% of he guys I work with own at least one gun, or go shooting or hunting with friends. I only know of one other guy there who is a strong second amendment supporter.

Here are the things I hear from other gun owners. " you think your still in the Army and you need that" " I already got my AW, so I don't care" "why do you need to have more than 10'rounds?" "ya, you really need that AR to take a deer " "there is no reason to have thousands of rounds, the Chinese are not attacking" "why would you even want a CCW?" " I don't care that antestraining order on an argument can let them take your guns, my wife is cool,'and I'm not a wife beater". These are all quotes from people who hunt or own guns.

What do most people say? Ya, most people say we should be able to own guns, but they are thinking of a six shooter or pump shotgun with 5 rounds. Look at the polls. And what does the government think? We already know they hate freedom.

Look, the Health care vote was the most contested vote ever. We shut down the congressional switch board by over loading it fore Pete's sake, but it passed.

I am not holding my breath for them not to trample more rights due to this nut job going on this murder spree.
Agreed.

I've spoken to many, many people that support the 2A, but think I'm crazy that I think it needs to be actively supported. A guy at work just last week told me "dude, take off the tinfoil hat. No one's trying to ban guns or take them away from you, no one wants to, and no one's ever done it so what are you worried about?" I just walked away. This was a guy that owns a gun and claims to be pro-2A.

The folks that don't actively research this stuff don't know it's happening until it's too late (if then) because while anti-gun rhetoric makes it in to mainstream news outlets, pro-gun rhetoric rarely does.

I even had a guy I know maybe three weeks ago ask me "hey have you heard anything about this CA ammo ban?" and this guy owns DOZENS of guns. I couldn't believe it.
__________________
01001100 01100101 01100001 01110010 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110011 01110111 01101001 01101101 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100100 01101111 01110111 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100001 01110010 01101001 01111010 01101111 01101110 01100001 00100000 01100010 01100001 01111001 00101110

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-12-2011, 3:56 PM
oddball's Avatar
oddball oddball is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: East of the Tunnel
Posts: 965
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Robert Levy is not only the co-counsel of the Heller case, but bankrolled the case as well. He is also the chair of the Cato Institute, a libertarian thinktank advocating limited government.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYong View Post
This has to be taken out of context.

He's right, but I highly doubt he's advocating such issues.
Hard to say from Levy's quote here:

Quote:
"It may stop a few of these looney tunes," Levy said. While saying that he saw it as a "close call, he said that that a restriction of "10 to 15 rounds makes sense."

__________________
_______________


"There is no hell. There is only France"- Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:05 PM
HondaMasterTech's Avatar
HondaMasterTech HondaMasterTech is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So, lets just say a ban on magazines with a capacity over 10 was passed. Let's also say no criminal was ever able to get their hands on a magazine with a capacity over 10. Do we now feel better that the criminal can kill 10 people without reloading instead of 17 or 33?

The solution, then, is to restrict magazine capacity to 1 round. That way a criminal must reaload after every person he/she kills. But, wait. Every life is precious. We should limit all magazines to a capacity of zero. That way a criminal can't kill anyone!

Makes sense, doesn't it?

Oh yea, I forgot. Criminals by definition DON'T OBEY LAWS!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
(Please skip the lame "two weeks" replies.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. Senator Dianne Feinstein, CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:17 PM
dantodd dantodd is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Carlos
Posts: 9,362
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The problem with a magazine limit is what is "reasonable" any capacity magazine that doesn't protrude a full round below the handgrip of a pistol? 30 rd. for a rifle? (std. m-16/Ak-47 magazine)

15 rds. for everything? 14 rds? 1 rd?

in common use? That would place us probably around 17 or 19 for handguns (many full-sized 9mm can carry this many commonly today) But what about new technologies that could easily fit 100 rds. into a pistol grip and would be economically disastrous to try and produce a "magazine" of only 10 or 15 rds. Do we strangle that sort of technology in the crib?

Perhaps we should have a 3 abortion limit or maybe a 65 op-ed limit. Maybe 1 church service a week limit.......
__________________
Coyote Point Armory
341 Beach Road
Burlingame CA 94010
650-315-2210
http://CoyotePointArmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:19 PM
highpowermatch's Avatar
highpowermatch highpowermatch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,418
iTrader: 67 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaMasterTech View Post
So, lets just say a ban on magazines with a capacity over 10 was passed. Let's also say no criminal was ever able to get their hands on a magazine with a capacity over 10. Do we now feel better that the criminal can kill 10 people without reloading instead of 17 or 33?

The solution, then, is to restrict magazine capacity to 1 round. That way a criminal must reaload after every person he/she kills. But, wait. Every life is precious. We should limit all magazines to a capacity of zero. That way a criminal can't kill anyone!

Makes sense, doesn't it?

Oh yea, I forgot. Criminals by definition DON'T OBEY LAWS!
Agreed, where does it stop? Why is 10 acceptable but not 11-30? Once they have it knocked down to ten then they will cry that semi autos are too dangerous, and so on.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:19 PM
Hopalong's Avatar
Hopalong Hopalong is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CA.
Posts: 2,270
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I don't see this guy as advocating anything.

I don't see him as a traitor.

I see him as trying to have an objective opinion as to a prediction as to how this may turn out.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:22 PM
wildhawker's Avatar
wildhawker wildhawker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Posts: 14,407
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Levy may also be somewhat moderate on 2A issues, as opposed to some of us who are much for opposed to any regulation. Does anyone see him bankrolling current cases?

Also, I think a hicap ban probably passes muster until we get into police powers and militia use territory, about anal sex years away.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:29 PM
tonelar's Avatar
tonelar tonelar is offline
Dinosaur
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Franpsycho
Posts: 5,981
iTrader: 114 / 100%
Default

The Bambi shooters and Duck hunters smiled and nodded their heads when the 1989 Caliban was looming.
"Why do you even need 42 round mags in your AUG?"
"What are you doing with an UZI?"
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:44 PM
faterikcartman's Avatar
faterikcartman faterikcartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego area.
Posts: 1,112
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

I'm not surprised. I said at the time not to get too excited as we may just end up with revolvers, single shots, or even muskets.

IMO the only justice who can be counted on to follow the Constitution as originally understood where "shall not" actually means "shall not" rather than "may" in cases where "x, y, and z", is Thomas.
__________________
I am not your lawyer. I am not giving you or anyone else who reads my posts legal advice. I am making off-the-cuff comments that may or may not be accurate and are personal, not professional, opinion. If you think you need a lawyer please retain a qualified attorney in your jurisdiction. Your local bar association may be able to help if you need a referral.

Two Weeks!: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...p/t-59936.html
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-12-2011, 4:56 PM
Tacit Blue's Avatar
Tacit Blue Tacit Blue is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,988
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default



Somethings wrong with my AR15. Oh wait nvm this is how it's supposed to be
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:03 PM
Barbarossa's Avatar
Barbarossa Barbarossa is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alameda County
Posts: 4,301
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Levy may also be somewhat moderate on 2A issues, as opposed to some of us who are much for opposed to any regulation. Does anyone see him bankrolling current cases?

Also, I think a hicap ban probably passes muster until we get into police powers and militia use territory, about anal sex years away.


LOL

__________________
WTB: Remington 870's (wing masters a plus)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:16 PM
NightOwl NightOwl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 587
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
anal sex years
You realize that someone is going to make a sig out of this, right?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:25 PM
Jake71 Jake71 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pomona
Posts: 3,237
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Charles Whitman primarily used a bolt action rifle and killed 16 and wounded 32. He didn't have "hi caps".

Lee Harvey Oswald didn't use a "hi cap" rifle....

So when will they get it, that it's not the size of the magazine, it's the bleeding idiot behind it. i.e. a criminal.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:32 PM
the_quark's Avatar
the_quark the_quark is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,005
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

This is why I was ready to respond to Calatrava. When I first heard "he was tackled reloading an extra-capacity magazine," I realized people who want to ban things were going to say, "Fewer people would've been killed in this incident if he'd had a ten round magazine, so we should ban larger magazines because it would save lives." I knew this idea would sound very reasonable to most people, including people who are pro-Second Amendment.

Frankly, I've been disappointed that most of the responses I've seen from our side have been either "A trained shooter can reload quickly, so bans are stupid," or "The 2nd Amendment absolutely protects my right to any firearm accessory I want, you moron". Neither of these arguments is effective in this case.

There are a lot of other arguments, some of which may or may not be effective depending on the audience:
  1. The initial information was incorrect. He was tackled after he completed a reload, when his extra-capacity magazine misfed, which they are notorious for. Ironically, his extra-capacity magazine may have saved lives.
  2. If he'd been unable to purchase more than ten-round magazines, he likely would've purchased a higher caliber pistol, and it's likely some of the wounded (including Rep. Giffords) would be dead, today.
  3. There are many more successful defensive gun shootings in the US than there are spree killings. Even though most defensive gun shootings don't need more than ten shots, some do, and that number must be larger than the number of victims of spree killings who would be saved if we could ban extra-capacity magazines.
  4. The "Federal Assault Weapons" ban on magazines wasn't a ban on possession, just on manufacture. It likely would've not prevented the shooter from acquiring the magazines he used.
  5. It's a very poor idea to make policy decisions based upon sudden, rare, high-profile events. This argument should do well with anyone who's been through a TSA checkpoint in the past decade.
I'd be interested in more arguments we could use (especially with people normally on "our side" who are just being "reasonable" after this tragedy). Attacking them, I think, isn't going to convince them on this issue - you need to be calm and present facts.
__________________
Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter -
Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:40 PM
POLICESTATE's Avatar
POLICESTATE POLICESTATE is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, PRK
Posts: 17,839
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

I will not be surprised when the NRA comes down in support of limitation on ammo capacity in magazines.
__________________
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.


Government Official Lies
. F r e e d o m . D i e s .
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:47 PM
wildhawker's Avatar
wildhawker wildhawker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Posts: 14,407
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
I will not be surprised when the NRA comes down in support of limitation on ammo capacity in magazines.
Not going to happen.
__________________
Brandon Combs

I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead.

My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:50 PM
Tripper's Avatar
Tripper Tripper is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Coast-Salinas
Posts: 6,867
iTrader: 93 / 100%
Default

Masteryong , refer your friend to new orleans after the havoc there, if I recall correctly the mayor ordered the national guard to go gather all the guns, they promised were not being recorded for confiscation and that would Never ever happen, ask the folks there if they ever got their firearms back, some haven't and won't because they were destroyed
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:50 PM
the_quark's Avatar
the_quark the_quark is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,005
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Not going to happen.
Yeah. Not even in anal sex years.
__________________
Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter -
Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-12-2011, 5:56 PM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
Moderator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,091
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa View Post


LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightOwl View Post
You realize that someone is going to make a sig out of this, right?
you guys do know what this is in reference to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
NFA is a long ways off as well it should be. Going after the NFA soon is like asking the girl you just met in the bar if she's into anal sex...

Handguns have the most protection right now so you're going to see things move from handguns out. Don't worry though, the end of the AW laws are very near and dear to many hearts here.

-Gene
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:03 PM
razorx's Avatar
razorx razorx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 693
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Has there been any studies on criminals not being able to, or inclined, to reload? Even if somehow mags are magically reduced to 10 rounds, do criminals suddenly "Oops, out of ammo, I'm tapped out..." or "I wish guns could use more than one mag..." or ...

There are a number of people on youtube that honestly, are so fast changing mags that 10 rd or 30 rd almost doesn't make a difference to them.

Is the belief that time changing mags for average person (3-5 secs), allows a target window for perp to be taken down?

Seems to me showing that one video of this guy on youtube changing mags sub second would end this debate on "high capacity" but I must be missing the argument somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:05 PM
the_quark's Avatar
the_quark the_quark is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,005
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
you guys do know what this is in reference to?
*Sigh*. Yet another great line of mine stolen by hoffmang. You know I'm his ghost writer, right?
__________________
Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter -
Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:07 PM
the_quark's Avatar
the_quark the_quark is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,005
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorx View Post
Seems to me showing that one video of this guy on youtube changing mags sub second would end this debate on "high capacity" but I must be missing the argument somewhere.
The argument is that, according to initial press reports, Mr. Loughner was tackled (and disarmed) during his first reload. Saying "Well, there's a guy on YouTube that can reload sub-second" isn't much of a refutation.

I now believe those initial reports to be in error. But, as long as that misinformation is out there, if someone believes "Mr. Loughner screwed up the reload," arguing "Well there's a guy on YouTube that wouldn't have" isn't very effective.
__________________
Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter -
Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:10 PM
Quser.619's Avatar
Quser.619 Quser.619 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 781
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

The other trend I've noticed, including from Rep. Bob Gilner (sp?) of San Diego, is the questioning for semi-automatic handguns... the new evil black gun. God luck explaining that they've been around for over a 100 years
__________________
‘‘Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? ... If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?’’

— Patrick Henry

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:18 PM
GOEX FFF's Avatar
GOEX FFF GOEX FFF is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under the Bill of Rights
Posts: 5,267
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorx View Post
Has there been any studies on criminals not being able to, or inclined, to reload? Even if somehow mags are magically reduced to 10 rounds, do criminals suddenly "Oops, out of ammo, I'm tapped out..." or "I wish guns could use more than one mag..." or ...

There are a number of people on youtube that honestly, are so fast changing mags that 10 rd or 30 rd almost doesn't make a difference to them.
.
This of course is falsely fixed when some bill gets introduced for some type of federal BB.
__________________


Gun-Control: "A theory like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

Last edited by GOEX FFF; 01-12-2011 at 6:28 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:18 PM
SoCal Bob SoCal Bob is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 4,724
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

The deranged killer in Tucson used a gun to carry out his plan. History tells us that deranged people are capable of great destruction using whatever tools are available.

Japan has some of the strictest gun controls anywhere so one might think that violence of this magnitude would be unheard of, however Japan was the location of two murderous rampages:

On June 8, 2001, a deranged man stabbed 21 children and two adults, killing 8 children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre


On June 8, 2008, a deranged man stabbed twelve people, killing four.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

To wish for Utopia is understandable, but it cannot be legislated. Lawmakers feel better about having passed laws they believe are tough on crime, when all they have done is to further restrict the very people who suffer most from the actions of the criminals or the deranged.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:19 PM
paul0660's Avatar
paul0660 paul0660 is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ukiah
Posts: 15,706
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
I'm not surprised. I said at the time not to get too excited as we may just end up with revolvers, single shots, or even muskets.
The slippery slope started to give way when they took away our full auto guns.
__________________
*REMOVE THIS PART BEFORE POSTING*
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:20 PM
dustoff31 dustoff31 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Live in AZ, 2nd Home in So. CA
Posts: 7,821
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_quark View Post
I'd be interested in more arguments we could use (especially with people normally on "our side" who are just being "reasonable" after this tragedy). Attacking them, I think, isn't going to convince them on this issue - you need to be calm and present facts.
FWIW, there is a report from the SO, I believe, that the shooter was also in possession of 2 or 3 loaded standard capacity magazines as well as the extended mags.

The point of course is it simply doesn't matter what the mag capacity is. He went there to kill and injure as many people as he possibly could. And that is what he did. If he hadn't had the big mags, he would have used the small ones.
__________________
"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:22 PM
infamous209's Avatar
infamous209 infamous209 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: central valley
Posts: 84
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I think most have overlooked a simple fact. It only takes seconds to load a new clip/mag regardless if its 1 rd or 1000 rds.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
We're going to beat the AW and hicap mag bans also.

Patience is more than a virtue, it's a necessity.
A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders.
Larry Elder
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:25 PM
GOEX FFF's Avatar
GOEX FFF GOEX FFF is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under the Bill of Rights
Posts: 5,267
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal Bob View Post
To wish for Utopia is understandable, but it cannot be legislated. Lawmakers feel better about having passed laws they believe are tough on crime, when all they have done is to further restrict the very people who suffer most from the actions of the criminals or the deranged.

WELL SAID!
__________________


Gun-Control: "A theory like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:29 PM
jayala4444 jayala4444 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default new with questions

Hello I am new to these forums and have some questions regarding CA laws. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:40 PM
Barbarossa's Avatar
Barbarossa Barbarossa is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alameda County
Posts: 4,301
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
you guys do know what this is in reference to?
Anal sex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_quark View Post
*Sigh*. Yet another great line of mine stolen by hoffmang. You know I'm his ghost writer, right?
Hey I'm still trying to figure out when "2 weeks" is over....

Don't put the cart in front of the horse.


I honestly though this was an autocorrect moment.
__________________
WTB: Remington 870's (wing masters a plus)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:49 PM
Archie B.'s Avatar
Archie B. Archie B. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: L.A.
Posts: 343
iTrader: 0 / 50%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkHaze View Post


Somethings wrong with my AR15. Oh wait nvm this is how it's supposed to be
And to think retailers wanted 1k for this POS...
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-12-2011, 6:59 PM
Archie B.'s Avatar
Archie B. Archie B. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: L.A.
Posts: 343
iTrader: 0 / 50%
Default

I always hear the rhetoric about a gun not having a sporting/hunting purpose. The 2nd. Ammendment is not about hunting and trap shooting. It`s about defending ones person, family and property from harm and the nation from a radical/tyrannical govt. and any insurrection, both foreign & domestic...and owning the types of weapons & hi cap mags to do the job. Hunting & sporting is nothing more than a by-product.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:22 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.