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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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Gun surprise: 2nd Amendment advocate says ban on high-capacity clips passes muster
Wow...just, wow.
http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...-passes-muster A leading gun rights advocate says there is no constitutional barrier to restricting the sale of high-capacity gun magazines such as the one used by accused Tucson shooter Jared Loughner and that such proposals are justified to prevent “looney tunes” from committing more gun massacres. Robert A. Levy, who served as co-counsel in the landmark 2008 Supreme Court case that established a Second Amendment right to bear arms, said there was no reason the court’s decision in that case should apply to the purchase of high-capacity gun magazines. “I don’t see any constitutional bar to regulating high-capacity magazines,” Levy said in an interview with NBC. “Justice (Antonin) Scalia made it quite clear some regulations are permitted. The Second Amendment is not absolute.”... |
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W
T F
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Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound. -- L. Neil Smith |
#3
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wow
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#5
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This isn't bad. This is being interpreted out of the context of understanding what it means. He's just saying that the RKBA isn't absolute, just like no right is absolute. He's also acknowledging that the court didn't define the limits of the right or the level of scrutiny.
Unfortunately most readers won't understand that he's talking about nuances here.
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"Weakness is provocative." Senator Tom Cotton, president in 2024 Victoria "Tori" Rose Smith's life mattered. |
#6
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The people on calguns are the hard core gun owners. About 75% of he guys I work with own at least one gun, or go shooting or hunting with friends. I only know of one other guy there who is a strong second amendment supporter.
Here are the things I hear from other gun owners. " you think your still in the Army and you need that" " I already got my AW, so I don't care" "why do you need to have more than 10'rounds?" "ya, you really need that AR to take a deer " "there is no reason to have thousands of rounds, the Chinese are not attacking" "why would you even want a CCW?" " I don't care that antestraining order on an argument can let them take your guns, my wife is cool,'and I'm not a wife beater". These are all quotes from people who hunt or own guns. What do most people say? Ya, most people say we should be able to own guns, but they are thinking of a six shooter or pump shotgun with 5 rounds. Look at the polls. And what does the government think? We already know they hate freedom. Look, the Health care vote was the most contested vote ever. We shut down the congressional switch board by over loading it fore Pete's sake, but it passed. I am not holding my breath for them not to trample more rights due to this nut job going on this murder spree. |
#7
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This has to be taken out of context.
He's right, but I highly doubt he's advocating such issues. I don't AGREE with him being right, but I don't see anything in the constitution's actual text or the recent SCOTUS decisions that would prevent such a ban. The actual INTENTION of the constitution on the other hand surely covers high-caps, IMHO. ...from my cold, dead hands...one bullet at a time... etc etc etc
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#8
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I've spoken to many, many people that support the 2A, but think I'm crazy that I think it needs to be actively supported. A guy at work just last week told me "dude, take off the tinfoil hat. No one's trying to ban guns or take them away from you, no one wants to, and no one's ever done it so what are you worried about?" I just walked away. This was a guy that owns a gun and claims to be pro-2A. The folks that don't actively research this stuff don't know it's happening until it's too late (if then) because while anti-gun rhetoric makes it in to mainstream news outlets, pro-gun rhetoric rarely does. I even had a guy I know maybe three weeks ago ask me "hey have you heard anything about this CA ammo ban?" and this guy owns DOZENS of guns. I couldn't believe it.
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Robert Levy is not only the co-counsel of the Heller case, but bankrolled the case as well. He is also the chair of the Cato Institute, a libertarian thinktank advocating limited government.
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_______________ "You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas" - Davy Crockett |
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So, lets just say a ban on magazines with a capacity over 10 was passed. Let's also say no criminal was ever able to get their hands on a magazine with a capacity over 10. Do we now feel better that the criminal can kill 10 people without reloading instead of 17 or 33?
The solution, then, is to restrict magazine capacity to 1 round. That way a criminal must reaload after every person he/she kills. But, wait. Every life is precious. We should limit all magazines to a capacity of zero. That way a criminal can't kill anyone! Makes sense, doesn't it? Oh yea, I forgot. Criminals by definition DON'T OBEY LAWS!
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The problem with a magazine limit is what is "reasonable" any capacity magazine that doesn't protrude a full round below the handgrip of a pistol? 30 rd. for a rifle? (std. m-16/Ak-47 magazine)
15 rds. for everything? 14 rds? 1 rd? in common use? That would place us probably around 17 or 19 for handguns (many full-sized 9mm can carry this many commonly today) But what about new technologies that could easily fit 100 rds. into a pistol grip and would be economically disastrous to try and produce a "magazine" of only 10 or 15 rds. Do we strangle that sort of technology in the crib? Perhaps we should have a 3 abortion limit or maybe a 65 op-ed limit. Maybe 1 church service a week limit.......
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Coyote Point Armory 341 Beach Road Burlingame CA 94010 650-315-2210 http://CoyotePointArmory.com |
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Levy may also be somewhat moderate on 2A issues, as opposed to some of us who are much for opposed to any regulation. Does anyone see him bankrolling current cases?
Also, I think a hicap ban probably passes muster until we get into police powers and militia use territory, about anal sex years away. |
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The Bambi shooters and Duck hunters smiled and nodded their heads when the 1989 Caliban was looming.
"Why do you even need 42 round mags in your AUG?" "What are you doing with an UZI?"
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I'm not surprised. I said at the time not to get too excited as we may just end up with revolvers, single shots, or even muskets.
IMO the only justice who can be counted on to follow the Constitution as originally understood where "shall not" actually means "shall not" rather than "may" in cases where "x, y, and z", is Thomas.
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I am not your lawyer. I am not giving you or anyone else who reads my posts legal advice. I am making off-the-cuff comments that may or may not be accurate and are personal, not professional, opinion. If you think you need a lawyer please retain a qualified attorney in your jurisdiction. Your local bar association may be able to help if you need a referral. Two Weeks!: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...p/t-59936.html |
#18
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LOL
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Looking for a 3" Magnum 870 $200-$250ish |
#20
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Charles Whitman primarily used a bolt action rifle and killed 16 and wounded 32. He didn't have "hi caps".
Lee Harvey Oswald didn't use a "hi cap" rifle.... So when will they get it, that it's not the size of the magazine, it's the bleeding idiot behind it. i.e. a criminal. |
#21
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This is why I was ready to respond to Calatrava. When I first heard "he was tackled reloading an extra-capacity magazine," I realized people who want to ban things were going to say, "Fewer people would've been killed in this incident if he'd had a ten round magazine, so we should ban larger magazines because it would save lives." I knew this idea would sound very reasonable to most people, including people who are pro-Second Amendment.
Frankly, I've been disappointed that most of the responses I've seen from our side have been either "A trained shooter can reload quickly, so bans are stupid," or "The 2nd Amendment absolutely protects my right to any firearm accessory I want, you moron". Neither of these arguments is effective in this case. There are a lot of other arguments, some of which may or may not be effective depending on the audience:
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Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter - Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff |
#22
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I will not be surprised when the NRA comes down in support of limitation on ammo capacity in magazines.
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-POLICESTATE, In the name of the State, and of the School, and of the Infallible Science If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. Government Official Lies . F r e e d o m . D i e s . |
#23
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Not going to happen.
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#24
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Masteryong , refer your friend to new orleans after the havoc there, if I recall correctly the mayor ordered the national guard to go gather all the guns, they promised were not being recorded for confiscation and that would Never ever happen, ask the folks there if they ever got their firearms back, some haven't and won't because they were destroyed
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Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter - Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff |
#26
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#27
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Has there been any studies on criminals not being able to, or inclined, to reload? Even if somehow mags are magically reduced to 10 rounds, do criminals suddenly "Oops, out of ammo, I'm tapped out..." or "I wish guns could use more than one mag..." or ...
There are a number of people on youtube that honestly, are so fast changing mags that 10 rd or 30 rd almost doesn't make a difference to them. Is the belief that time changing mags for average person (3-5 secs), allows a target window for perp to be taken down? Seems to me showing that one video of this guy on youtube changing mags sub second would end this debate on "high capacity" but I must be missing the argument somewhere. |
#28
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*Sigh*. Yet another great line of mine stolen by hoffmang. You know I'm his ghost writer, right?
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Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter - Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff |
#29
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I now believe those initial reports to be in error. But, as long as that misinformation is out there, if someone believes "Mr. Loughner screwed up the reload," arguing "Well there's a guy on YouTube that wouldn't have" isn't very effective.
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Brett Thomas - @the_quark on Twitter - Founding CGF Director and Treasurer; NRA Life Member; Ex-CRPA Director and Life Member; SAF Life Member; Peña Plaintiff |
#30
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The other trend I've noticed, including from Rep. Bob Gilner (sp?) of San Diego, is the questioning for semi-automatic handguns... the new evil black gun. God luck explaining that they've been around for over a 100 years
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‘‘Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? ... If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?’’ — Patrick Henry |
#31
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Last edited by GOEX FFF; 01-12-2011 at 6:28 PM.. |
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The deranged killer in Tucson used a gun to carry out his plan. History tells us that deranged people are capable of great destruction using whatever tools are available.
Japan has some of the strictest gun controls anywhere so one might think that violence of this magnitude would be unheard of, however Japan was the location of two murderous rampages: On June 8, 2001, a deranged man stabbed 21 children and two adults, killing 8 children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre On June 8, 2008, a deranged man stabbed twelve people, killing four. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre To wish for Utopia is understandable, but it cannot be legislated. Lawmakers feel better about having passed laws they believe are tough on crime, when all they have done is to further restrict the very people who suffer most from the actions of the criminals or the deranged. |
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The point of course is it simply doesn't matter what the mag capacity is. He went there to kill and injure as many people as he possibly could. And that is what he did. If he hadn't had the big mags, he would have used the small ones.
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"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler |
#35
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I think most have overlooked a simple fact. It only takes seconds to load a new clip/mag regardless if its 1 rd or 1000 rds.
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Larry Elder |
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WELL SAID! |
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Anal sex?
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Don't put the cart in front of the horse. I honestly though this was an autocorrect moment.
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Looking for a 3" Magnum 870 $200-$250ish |
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I always hear the rhetoric about a gun not having a sporting/hunting purpose. The 2nd. Ammendment is not about hunting and trap shooting. It`s about defending ones person, family and property from harm and the nation from a radical/tyrannical govt. and any insurrection, both foreign & domestic...and owning the types of weapons & hi cap mags to do the job. Hunting & sporting is nothing more than a by-product.
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