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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-14-2010, 12:07 PM
The Rattler The Rattler is offline
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Default San Diego ccw day?

Just curious... how many of you in San Diego, or even across California would consider meeting at the Sheriff's office on a certain day to apply for a ccw for nothing more than self defense reasons. It seams to me that having a couple thousand plus showing up at one time would bring attention to may issue vs shall issue. Imagine 2k+ being turned down at one time. It seems to me then if then you are ever charged with constitutional carry you then have a basis for defense since you were denied in opposition to what 44 other states as well as the Bill of Rights state.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:15 PM
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It wouldn't hurt, but its probably not worth doing too much in San Diego until Peruta is resolved.

-Gene
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:17 PM
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In San Diego you have to make an appointment with the Sheriff's office. But do not fret, our time to apply in San Diego will be coming soon.
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Old 11-14-2010, 1:09 PM
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Remember that we are developing a roster of volunteers and interested people which will help facilitate carry-related actions and other pro-2A efforts.

Sign up at www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer
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Old 11-14-2010, 1:46 PM
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I am up for it, now we just need 1998 more people!
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:02 PM
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What would be interesting is to get a tally of the people applying together and then letting the Sherriff know you were going to publish the stats.

I can see the newsbyte

A> "per background checks performed by the local sherrif, only (insert low percentage here) were determined to be of good and moral character in (insert county). Maybe (insert county name) isn't a good place to live?"

or

B> "per the local sherrif, nearly all citizens were verified to be of good and moral character in (insert county)."
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:15 PM
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We do and will continue to publish the stats.

It would be great to expand the data to "# applications" although it's somewhat time-consuming. If compiled locally we could update the master page as new data is gathered and analyzed.

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Originally Posted by DiscoBayJoe View Post
What would be interesting is to get a tally of the people applying together and then letting the Sherriff know you were going to publish the stats.

I can see the newsbyte

A> "per background checks performed by the local sherrif, only (insert low percentage here) were determined to be of good and moral character in (insert county). Maybe (insert county name) isn't a good place to live?"

or

B> "per the local sherrif, nearly all citizens were verified to be of good and moral character in (insert county)."
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
We do and will continue to publish the stats.

It would be great to expand the data to "# applications" although it's somewhat time-consuming. If compiled locally we could update the master page as new data is gathered and analyzed.
I appreciate the effort put into those stats, but without a percentage of population that has applied, they are (IMHO) of little value for applying pressure on the decision makers. If they were held accountable publicly on each application decision, maybe they would chose otherwise.
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:21 PM
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^ to clarify , say we get 1000 calgunners to apply in Contra Costa (i'd participate), it woudln't be bad press for Rupf to say that he denied 1000 out of 1-million citizens; however, if it was published that he denied 1000 out of 1000, saying that nobody is of character in this county, maybe it would send the right message.
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:28 PM
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What fees are involved with the application process in San Diego?
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoBayJoe View Post
I appreciate the effort put into those stats, but without a percentage of population that has applied, they are (IMHO) of little value for applying pressure on the decision makers. If they were held accountable publicly on each application decision, maybe they would chose otherwise.
The Sheriffs do not care about your data - indeed, they *create* that very data. The only way it will be relevant is if you can use it to educate the citizenry.

Holding them accountable means litigating and forcing them to comply with the Constitution and existing law.
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Old 11-14-2010, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
What fees are involved with the application process in San Diego?
See http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/dow..._CCW_Guide.pdf and http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.p.../125-san-diego.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:40 PM
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I was going to apply tomorrow but I am waiting for the call to action by CGF to maximize my chances of approval. However I think that once CGF gives us our marching orders a couple hundred people walking into their office to pick up applications would be awesome. No appointment needed to pick up an application.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2010, 5:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
What fees are involved with the application process in San Diego?
You need a certified check/money order for the DOJ for $95 and a personal check for $12.63 for the Sheriff's Dept at the time you submit your application. When you pick up your CCW, you give them another personal check for $50.51.
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Old 11-15-2010, 5:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy352 View Post
I was going to apply tomorrow but I am waiting for the call to action by CGF to maximize my chances of approval. However I think that once CGF gives us our marching orders a couple hundred people walking into their office to pick up applications would be awesome. No appointment needed to pick up an application.
You can download the application from their web site and fill it out.
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Old 11-15-2010, 5:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
It wouldn't hurt, but its probably not worth doing too much in San Diego until Peruta is resolved.

-Gene
Out of curiosity, will this have any impact on us stuck up here in Los Angeles county?
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Old 11-15-2010, 5:58 AM
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Out of curiosity, will this have any impact on us stuck up here in Los Angeles county?
Yes, sythuh. The judge's jurisdiction in 9th Circuit Court covers nine states and will have ramifications throughout those states. California and Hawaii are the only two on that list who don't have a "Shall Issue" or "No Permit" requirement.

Today is the start of the oral arguments of the Peruta vs. Sheriff Gore. Sit tight like Gene says and we'll all be along for the ride.
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Old 11-15-2010, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, sythuh. The judge's jurisdiction in 9th Circuit Court covers nine states and will have ramifications throughout those states. California and Hawaii are the only two on that list who don't have a "Shall Issue" or "No Permit" requirement.

Today is the start of the oral arguments of the Peruta vs. Sheriff Gore. Sit tight like Gene says and we'll all be along for the ride.
Thanks for the info!
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2010, 1:43 PM
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I attended Peruta Hearing today.

The short readers digest version---Judge slated whole day just for this hearing, which wound up lasting just under 2 hours. She had many questions for both sides. Sheriff Gore was not in attendence although 2 plain clothed deputy looking types were writing notes on defenses side of courtroom removed from the gallery.
Overall Perutas' team gave a much stronger factual based argument, qutoing case law correctly
defense relied on misinterpretation of Heller, Macdonald, and used his go to defense of "What about the children".

Judge closed saying a written decision in 3-4 weeks then corrected and said 3 weeks. Ill get back with you guys tomorrow and give a blow by blow.
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Old 11-15-2010, 3:02 PM
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I read your review on another post. Thank you firemark for the update.
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Old 11-15-2010, 3:12 PM
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Also, the County tried to use the denial rate as a demonstration that the Sheriff is 'shall issue' - he only denied 16 permits or renewals in the last year. Chuck Michel reminded the judge that people do not get formally denied until after writing a check and officially submitting an application - the numbers don't include those turned away in the 'prescreening' process.....

After today's hearing I am ready to apply using Self Defense as well, just waiting for the green light.

Last edited by Bill_in_SD; 11-15-2010 at 3:13 PM.. Reason: added stuff
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom View Post
In San Diego you have to make an appointment with the Sheriff's office.
I have a dream, that someday the bureaucrats will actually answer to their masters (and betters)...

When the public says jump - we don't want to take a number and wait to see it...
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:58 PM
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Now is it maybe time for all of us to show up at once without an appointment? Is there even 1,000 in San Diego who care? Dec 15 is the birth of the Bill of Rights. Just a suggestion.
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Old 12-11-2010, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rattler View Post
Now is it maybe time for all of us to show up at once without an appointment? Is there even 1,000 in San Diego who care? Dec 15 is the birth of the Bill of Rights. Just a suggestion.
NO.

Hang tight, we have some things coming soon that directly involve San Diego. Keep your powder dry.
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Old 12-11-2010, 1:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
NO.

Hang tight, we have some things coming soon that directly involve San Diego. Keep your powder dry.

WOOHOO!!!!

p.s. When do we get to peek at the San Diego GC statements?
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Old 12-11-2010, 1:24 PM
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WOOHOO!!!!

p.s. When do we get to peek at the San Diego GC statements?
The County just this week confirmed that they will be producing the records. It may be some time before we have those in front of us (SD Sheriff's Office estimates ~31 hours of manpower to produce/redact, and as such are not making it a priority).

We'll call that "phase 2".
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Old 12-11-2010, 1:54 PM
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...and as such are not making it a priority
So if we or our loved ones get attacked between now and "when they get around to it" that is ok? Hey, I know you guys are working hard to fight the fight through the legal process. But you have to realize that eventually these rights are going to have to be taken back. A state or federal judge is not king. We all are. Tyranny never gives freedoms back they have wrestled away. Never. For the last hundred years it has always been one step forward to every 2 steps back. There is always plan B then C then D... when will more realize this is their plan. So far all Heller and others have done is give them a target to dance around. If it is important to us, then we are the teeth to make things happen. Nullification is not just for juries. Enough people doing something makes it so. Just as the people doing nothing.

These are just thoughts for discussion and no more. People post about patriots and Sons of Liberty. Just curious what they would of done 200 years ago. I am sure the word appeal was seldom used.
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Old 12-11-2010, 2:06 PM
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You go ahead and tilt at windmills. I'll keep working today, tomorrow, and the next day as we recover our rights in a manner conducive to social norming and judicial acknowledgement.

History isn't as sexy as those who fail to grasp its lessons perceive it to be.

ETA: Also, could you please make a real argument? I'm concerned about the implication of your first inquiry. Further, you haven't offered an adequate (or any) solution to the problem you posit ("if we or our loved ones get attacked between now and 'when they get around to it'").

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rattler View Post
So if we or our loved ones get attacked between now and "when they get around to it" that is ok? Hey, I know you guys are working hard to fight the fight through the legal process. But you have to realize that eventually these rights are going to have to be taken back. A state or federal judge is not king. We all are. Tyranny never gives freedoms back they have wrestled away. Never. For the last hundred years it has always been one step forward to every 2 steps back. There is always plan B then C then D... when will more realize this is their plan. So far all Heller and others have done is give them a target to dance around. If it is important to us, then we are the teeth to make things happen. Nullification is not just for juries. Enough people doing something makes it so. Just as the people doing nothing.

These are just thoughts for discussion and no more. People post about patriots and Sons of Liberty. Just curious what they would of done 200 years ago. I am sure the word appeal was seldom used.
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Last edited by wildhawker; 12-11-2010 at 2:09 PM..
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Old 12-11-2010, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rattler View Post
Just curious what they would of done 200 years ago. I am sure the word appeal was seldom used.
When our nation was founded, we were living under a monarchal dictatorship. There was no option for appeal. Now that we are living under a constitutional republic, we exercise all of our legal options before resorting to more severe means.

As Brandon noted, arranging a mass denial party would do nothing useful at this time. Let's apply our efforts to endeavors which are likely to be beneficial, rather than squandering them on meaningless public displays of anger and ignorance.
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