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  #121  
Old 09-21-2010, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlltest View Post
It is a Norinco BWk-92 Sporter. It has a thumbhole stock. But I would replace it with a regular AK style stock, a MonsterMan grip and a magazine lock
yup, looks off-list to me. If you are installing a maglock, you dont need a monsterman grip. If you want to install a monsterman grip, you don't need a maglock (provided there is no flash hider installed).


Quote:
Originally Posted by wlltest View Post
If you have a Magazine lock, can you install a forward pistol grip?
yes.
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  #122  
Old 09-21-2010, 3:17 PM
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follow the flowchart, if you answer no to the 'detachable mag' question, you skip the "evil features" question.
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  #123  
Old 10-01-2010, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST View Post
After you have been a member here for a few more months you will look back at your mindset during this time and cherish it as "quaint"... while staring into your gun safe smiling at your collection of ARs and AKs.
I was like centurycitygun when I first started...that wore off quickly though as I read more and researched.

On a side note...still a ton of basic questions being asked. If you can't figure it out based on the flowchart or the search...you may want to rethink you intent to buy a OLL, because there may become a day where you'll have to explain the legality of your rifle to a LEO and if you were spoon fed answers on this forum your ability to recall why your rifle it legal may be suspect...at least IMO. Maybe it's just me, but taking the hours or days to figure things out by reading and searching sticks in my head much better than being force fed answers.

There's no question about OLL that can't be answered by using the search or the flowchart...none...they've been asked...there are no new questions...I guarantee it.
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  #124  
Old 10-01-2010, 11:12 PM
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Heading to RifleGear in the AM to pick the last piece of the "Evil-Feature-Less" puzzle - Replacing my A2 flash suppressor with a muzzle brake.

And here is a question that may be too simple to answer:

I've built my AR style rifle to be "Evil-Feature-Less" with a HammerHead, fixed stock, removed the Raddock button, and muzzle brake - NO forward grip, pistol grip, flash suppressor, thumb hole or adjustable stock, or grenade/flare launcher - Can I still use 10 round mags...?

I've got my ancient set of old hi-cap mags rebuilt to run with the new 6.8 upper - But nobody has mentioned using 10 round mags on an "Evil-Feature-Less" build.

If its a stupid question - I blame the scotch.........
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  #125  
Old 10-01-2010, 11:17 PM
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With a featureless build you can use any mag you want. 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 90, 100.
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  #126  
Old 10-19-2010, 8:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Rude Robert View Post
I'm confused again, I have a dpms upper and double star lower that I bought from popular gun store in the fontana area. It has the evil stuff on it, but does have the bullet button. I was told that this was legal and I have used it to hunt the squirrels, plus, i only have the 10 round mags for it. Since dpms is on the appendix b then is this still legal? thx robert
"DPMS" refers to the lower, not they upper. You're fine.

Even with the flow chart, the AW laws are a Byzantine mess. LEOs and DAs can't even keep them straight.

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  #127  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:44 AM
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Hi all, I have a few queestions? I am going to go pick up a new m&p15t in the next week that I recently ordered. My main question is how often do the folks at the range see these things and is it safe to go to a local range with it? Chances are that there will be LEO's there and the last thing I want to do is create a situation that draws attention to me. *** far as I know it is a legal AR and it definately has a BB on it and just to be safe I will never go to the range with anything more than a 10 rd magazine. I have already purchased some 30 round magazines set to hold 10 rounds, but I don't want to draw attention to anything that would arouse suspicion.

I am also printing out a copy of the letter that has been circulated with the Sacramento Sheriff Department in regards to these rifles. This copy will be in my case at all times just in case I would happen to need it. I don't drive like a maniac, I don't drink, and I don't do things that would attract the attention of the law. However, going to the range with one of these rifles could potentially put me in contact with someone that is against the ownership of the rifles.

One more thing, I do not plan to run out to the range on day one. My plan is do more and more research, then call the range I plan on going to and ask questions and then most likely join the range as a member. I have one in mind based on recomondations from friends, but I don't know how often they see these rifles and whether or not people pee their pants because of the big scary ar15.

thanks in advance for your help
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  #128  
Old 11-19-2010, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Trashcanman View Post
Hi all, I have a few queestions? I am going to go pick up a new m&p15t in the next week that I recently ordered. My main question is how often do the folks at the range see these things and is it safe to go to a local range with it? Chances are that there will be LEO's there and the last thing I want to do is create a situation that draws attention to me. *** far as I know it is a legal AR and it definately has a BB on it and just to be safe I will never go to the range with anything more than a 10 rd magazine. I have already purchased some 30 round magazines set to hold 10 rounds, but I don't want to draw attention to anything that would arouse suspicion.

I am also printing out a copy of the letter that has been circulated with the Sacramento Sheriff Department in regards to these rifles. This copy will be in my case at all times just in case I would happen to need it. I don't drive like a maniac, I don't drink, and I don't do things that would attract the attention of the law. However, going to the range with one of these rifles could potentially put me in contact with someone that is against the ownership of the rifles.

One more thing, I do not plan to run out to the range on day one. My plan is do more and more research, then call the range I plan on going to and ask questions and then most likely join the range as a member. I have one in mind based on recomondations from friends, but I don't know how often they see these rifles and whether or not people pee their pants because of the big scary ar15.

thanks in advance for your help
Let us know which ranges you frequent, or plan to frequent. Then we can give you some real-world answers and observations. I usually go to Field Sports Park in South San Jose. I haven't been there in a while, but I've seen AR style rifles on many occasions, in different configurations, and no one was giving anyone a hard time about it.
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  #129  
Old 11-21-2010, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Trashcanman View Post
Sac Valley is the one I have been thinking about going to. Rancho Cordova range was another one. If I like Sac Valley I plan on joing up as a member.

My biggest worry is showing up with a m&p 15t and people peeing their pants. Or is a leo is there and decides he want to ask questions petaining to my rifle.

Has any of you been approached by the LE on a range and been questioned over it? I plan on have that letter that was writtin by a sac sheriff in my bag at all times. The last thing I want is to walk into the range with a brand new rifle and leave the place without my rifle because a leo decided it didn't fit what he though was a ca legal ar. I will be getting it in the next few day and posting a pic and pointing out why I think it is legal. Hopefully I get input back so I know I am going this the right way. Obviously I am not affraid to own one, I just want to make sure I can keep it.
I go to Yolo Sportsman in Davis with both of my Ar's no questions or problems as there are others there with them. Some LEO's shoot there as well..
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  #130  
Old 11-26-2010, 5:48 PM
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I've never had a problem at Sac Valley and I've taken things that are arguably scarier looking than a BB'ed AR, though I have had my ARs there too. Everyone I have talked with there has been decently knowledgeable about the gun laws. Occasionally people will express interest and ask questions but that is fine with me. I've never had anyone who identified him or herself as a Law Enforcement Officer but all my guns legally configured so I guess I don't worry much.

Sac Valley is no problem. Shoot with peace of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trashcanman View Post
. *** far as I know it is a legal AR and it definately has a BB on it and just to be safe I will never go to the range with anything more than a 10 rd magazine. I have already purchased some 30 round magazines set to hold 10 rounds...
You had better stick to only 10 round mags or less for BB'ed guns. If you want to use larger mags you have to go featureless. You probably meant that, I just wanted to clarify.
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  #131  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cedave View Post
What are you refering to when you use the acronym "McD" ?
I'll jump up and down on the limb and guess he was speaking of the Supreme Court case of McDonald vs Chicago.
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  #132  
Old 12-09-2010, 4:42 PM
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So I've added the new Benelli MR1 to my CA legal collection of auto rifles. (includes Kel Tec SU 16 CA, MP 15 22, and SR 22). I'm sticking with the featureless route and 22s until I see something in writing from DOJ or LAPD or LASD that oks bullet buttons. I know...I'm still a *****. BTW, the MR1 with the comfotech stock is a fun rifle but a pain to tear down.
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  #133  
Old 12-29-2010, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftone View Post
I have a question that I have not seen addressed in the time I have been a member of cal guns.

I have three OLL AR’s- one has a 22 dedicated upper on top and the other two are 5.56 uppers

Most of my shooting is with 22 conversion kits installed in the 5.56 uppers. We all know that the AW law is for center fire rifles, but has anyone been detained, inconvenienced or otherwise gotten in heat for having evil features on an AR with a .22 conversion kit installed? I pretty much leave the .22 kits installed and do not even take a 5.56 BCG, 5.56 magazines or ammo when I go to the range. I save that for “out of state” pleasure trips.

Any suggestions on how to protect myself from overzealous/or AW uneducated LEO’s? (Other than locking my case, keeping a copy of the flow sheet with me, etc) My rifles are all pretty simple – only evil features are a pistol grip and collapsible stock.
I've heard so much fud regarding 22 kits and 22 uppers. At one store, they insisted that I use a BB on the lower with a full 22 upper installed (not a conversion, a 22 chambered upper) UNLESS the lower does not indicate on it that it is 223 or 5.56 or other centerfire caliber. As if just having a lower that says .223 with a pistol grip and no BB was against the law, but ok if it did not state it was for a centerfire cartridge. I know better, a lower without an upper is not semi-automatic so cannot trigger any kind of aw status. However, an upper built to take .223 or any centerfire round, should never go on such a lower without a BB, even with a 22 conversion kit in it IMO (and I am not a lawyer, just not a good idea IMO.) The upper is still chambered in a centerfire cartridge. Now having a 22 upper on it is different, as it as the barrel is chambered for a rimfire round. Again, I'm no lawyer, but I go by what the barrel is chambered for. I'm about to order a 22 upper from CMMG and build one of my bare lowers dedicated to it with no BB and a pistol grip and I don't care if it says .223 on the side.

In your case, I would keep a BB installed- your rifle is chambered for a centerfire round, regardless of the adapter inserted IMO. Now let the lawyers chime in...
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  #134  
Old 01-16-2011, 5:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomProtector View Post
OK, I know this is a basic question, but better to be absolutely certain I understand the Calguns Flowchart before I purchase a complete upper for the S&W M&P-15 stripped lower I just purchased.

So first, I don't see the S&W M&P-15 listed in appendices A, B, or C and since I bought it from City Arms in Pacifica, a fully licensed CA firearms retailer, I presume I am legal so far.

Now here's the question: I am interested in buying a Rock River complete upper half with the same name as a model that appears in Appendix B. However, I am of the understanding that the names listed in Appendix B only apply to lower receivers (the registered part carrying the serial number) and should not apply to the complete upper that I am interested in. Is this correct?
The upper does not matter, in terms of name, only in terms of evil features, if you are making a 'featureless' build to avoid using a bullet button. The lower is the 'firearm' and what is on the lower is what matters in terms of 'brand and model'. Yes our 'assault weapon' laws are a patchwork of nonsense...

That S&W lower is GTG with a bullet button installed- back when the list came into being, they were not making ARs so are not on the list, and thanks to Aaaannnnaaaalld no other 'assault weapons' can be added by brand and model.
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  #135  
Old 01-26-2011, 5:57 PM
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OLL = off-list lower, a receiver that isn't on the list of named assault weapons.

Here is a list of acronyms that are commonly used on the forum, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=acronym . Yes, there are a lot, and not all are documented, but you need to read and you will start to pick up the lingo. Most of us aren't gonna take the time to spell out "off list lower", "registered assault weapon" "law enforcement officer", etc and are just gonna say OLL, RAW, LEO, etc.
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  #136  
Old 01-27-2011, 10:22 AM
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Curious - There are a few people in this thread that are not convinced that a bullet button is legal and I'm trying to grasp their logic.
Question - If Legally a bullet is considered a tool then any logical person would assume that there must be a device that can be manipulated by that tool otherwise why have the tool or for that matter address this tool in Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines. In my opinion because this is specifically addressed in ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS 5469 any judge or LEO would be hard pressed to find to the contrary. Make sense?
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  #137  
Old 01-27-2011, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by komifornian View Post
Curious - There are a few people in this thread that are not convinced that a bullet button is legal and I'm trying to grasp their logic.
There are some people who are convinced that the world is flat.

You can't reach some folks. Conserve your energy.
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  #138  
Old 01-31-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by target View Post
ok i have a question for some of you law experts. a friend of mine has a sister who is a leo and she told him that when transporting your ars or aks it must have the magazine in the rifle but it must be empty. i always thought that magazine must be detached with a lock on the rifle.
That is FUD, you don't need to put an empty mag in the rifle for transport.

Also, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you don't need to lock a rifle either, only a handgun.
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  #139  
Old 01-31-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tonb View Post
...you don't need to lock a rifle either, only a handgun.
Even for rifles/shotguns, It's good practice to lock, or place in trunk, just in case you pass through school zones.
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  #140  
Old 01-31-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tonb View Post
That is FUD, you don't need to put an empty mag in the rifle for transport.

Also, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you don't need to lock a rifle either, only a handgun.
True about the mag. False about transporting. Niether a long gun nor a handgun is required to be locked while transporting unless, the handgun is concealed in any way and/or you are traveling through a GFSZ. When traveling through a GFSZ, all firearms must be locked!
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  #141  
Old 01-31-2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
True about the mag. False about transporting. Niether a long gun nor a handgun is required to be locked while transporting unless, the handgun is concealed in any way and/or you are traveling through a GFSZ. When traveling through a GFSZ, all firearms must be locked!
That was a confusing reply. Are you saying he was right about mag and wrong about transport, or me. I assume me since you quoted me, but we seem to have the same opinion. Just wanted to clarify (gun free zones aside)

edit: sorry, I see why, I said lock handgun. But I am still under the belief that unless openly carried on a holster, it must be put in a locked container, a trigger or barrel lock does not count.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
Quote:
HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.

SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.
edit2: In fact, it is pretty clearly illustrated in the Penal Code that you must lock handguns for transport. (I understand it says concealed, but I read that as is simply in the car constitutes concealed, which I'm guessing is why that above link describes it as such, though it does omit OC in the holster)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12025.
(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12026.1.a
12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:

(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
Ie. driving with a pistol on the passenger seat is going to get you a visit to the gray bar motel
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  #142  
Old 01-31-2011, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonb View Post
edit2: In fact, it is pretty clearly illustrated in the Penal Code that you must lock handguns for transport.





Ie. driving with a pistol on the passenger seat is going to get you a visit to the gray bar motel
only if it is concealed. If it is openly displayed on the passenger seat, it is not a violation of 12025.

Quote:
12025
(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
he would have to make sure he didn't violate any GFSZ during he drive, but that wouldn't be a 12025 violation.
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  #143  
Old 01-31-2011, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
only if it is concealed. If it is openly displayed on the passenger seat, it is not a violation of 12025.

he would have to make sure he didn't violate any GFSZ during he drive, but that wouldn't be a 12025 violation.
I had once thought that too but I recall reading a thread in here where a calgunner had his life turned upside down for having an unloaded pistol on the passenger seat during a routine stop. Arrested, the whole 9 yards. Was I dreaming?
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  #144  
Old 01-31-2011, 1:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonb View Post
I had once thought that too but I recall reading a thread in here where a calgunner had his life turned upside down for having an unloaded pistol on the passenger seat during a routine stop. Arrested, the whole 9 yards. Was I dreaming?
Well, that wouldn't make any sense, whatsoever...If you could legally open carry outside your vehicle, but you couldn't open carry inside your vehicle.

Sounds about on-par for CA law, though...so you never know.

[edit]
clarified wording.

Last edited by Chris M; 01-31-2011 at 2:34 PM..
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  #145  
Old 01-31-2011, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonb View Post
I had once thought that too but I recall reading a thread in here where a calgunner had his life turned upside down for having an unloaded pistol on the passenger seat during a routine stop. Arrested, the whole 9 yards. Was I dreaming?
just because he got arrested doesn't mean that he was actually breaking a law. Just because an LEO might have improperly arrested him doesn't make his open carry conduct illegal.

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Well, that wouldn't make any sense, whatsoever...You can legally open carry outside your vehicle, but you can't open carry inside your vehicle.
you can open carry in your vehicle, as long as it is not concealed. just have to watch out for GFSZ's.
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  #146  
Old 02-04-2011, 9:30 AM
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This is probably a newb question...But if I am transporting several long guns and 2-3 hand guns all (unloaded of course) in a large SUV. Do all of these firearms need to be in a locker? I have been had these laying in the back under towel (literally). Please clarify if the lock box is to protect property or to be legally compliant. Thanks in advance
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:54 PM
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OK, this is the way I think about transporting guns.

This is the general rule:

1) Everything needs to be unloaded

2) Everything needs to be in a locked "container." An SUV is not a locked container, but a car trunk is.

3) If you don't drive though any GFSZ, then the rifles don't have to be in a locked container. But the pistols still do, no matter what.

It's safer to start with the assumption that everything must be unloaded and in a locked container, then adjust as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 949S_GP100 View Post
This is probably a newb question...But if I am transporting several long guns and 2-3 hand guns all (unloaded of course) in a large SUV. Do all of these firearms need to be in a locker? I have been had these laying in the back under towel (literally). Please clarify if the lock box is to protect property or to be legally compliant. Thanks in advance
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Old 02-08-2011, 9:21 PM
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EDIT-
think i found my own answer

16" barrels dont need to have the muzzle brake pinned/welded
dont gamble with muzzle brakes that also are flash hiders

Last edited by nation; 02-09-2011 at 6:27 AM..
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Old 02-13-2011, 8:38 PM
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So I haven't read ALL the pages here but I have two quick questions:

I know how a "locked container" can be the trunk of a car (not an SUV), because trunklids basically require a KEY to open. But what if I can access the trunk from inside the car by pulling down the rear seats, which does not require a key? Does the trunk still count as a "locked container"?

Also, what are you supposed to do if you get pulled over for whatever trivial reason and the officer asks you if you have any guns or weapons in the car? Would you have to say yes? Which then probably means there is a high chance they may want to see it which will then start trouble?


Thanks
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Old 02-14-2011, 6:29 AM
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You do not need to say anything to a police officer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderTacticaL View Post
So I haven't read ALL the pages here but I have two quick questions:

I know how a "locked container" can be the trunk of a car (not an SUV), because trunklids basically require a KEY to open. But what if I can access the trunk from inside the car by pulling down the rear seats, which does not require a key? Does the trunk still count as a "locked container"?

Also, what are you supposed to do if you get pulled over for whatever trivial reason and the officer asks you if you have any guns or weapons in the car? Would you have to say yes? Which then probably means there is a high chance they may want to see it which will then start trouble?


Thanks
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:07 AM
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The other day some friends and I were shooting on family private property. A local sheriff who lived down the road stopped by to see what we were doing. Since I saw him coming, I put my rifle in the trunk.

He didn't ask to inspect the gun - and I am not even sure that he could, since I was parked right on the private property boundary, and not on a public road.

But he asked an open ended question:

"What are you shooting?"

I said "7.62x39."

If I had said "an AK" - it might have caused him to want to look at the gun.

The point is that what I did was subtle - I gave him a reason to leave, and didn't give him an excuse to escalate.

That is the kind of stuff that you learn when you get a little older - it's not necessarily an age thing - but age helps.
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Old 02-15-2011, 1:45 AM
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I understand that, and for the same reason, I thank all the CGN members for sharing their experiences. I've learned a lot from you guys. I learned how to be a law abiding, responsible gun owner. I just think that people shouldn't make biased assumptions. I was a firearm noobie, but thanks to all the CGN people, I now have a firm grasp of the firearm laws. It is unfair, and uncalled for, when someone singles out a certain demographic as the burden of blame. That's my two cents.
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  #153  
Old 02-15-2011, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
just because he got arrested doesn't mean that he was actually breaking a law. Just because an LEO might have improperly arrested him doesn't make his open carry conduct illegal.
Right but the whole point of this thread is how to not get arrested. Just because it is legal to do something, doesn't mean it is a good idea, case in point open carry. Sure you can legally OC, then get belligerent with an officer and give him the finger as you storm off, but that doesn't mean its a smart thing to do and I'll feel no sympathy for the guy who gets his *** handed to him after doing so.

So even though I can legally toss an unloaded pistol on my passenger seat, odds are I'm kissing asphalt if I get pulled over regardless of the law. So the smart thing to do would be to place it in a locked container. Just my 2 cents.
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  #154  
Old 02-24-2011, 7:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST View Post
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=163082

I was detained by BP for 3+ hours and NO I would NOT care to elaborate... other than you have no rights when the cameras and voice recorders are off and LEOs have you cuffed and they want to search your property even if they have NO Probable Cause they dont give a **** about your rights and they will trample them... just make sure that it isnt any easier for them. It also makes them look like ******** when they destroy your property w/ no PC only to have to let you go with an apology.
Well if you were detained by BP (assuming at or near a border checkpoint or crossing) the you must realize that no, you actually do not have any 4th Amendment rights, and PC or even the lesser "reasonable suspicion" standard do not apply.

At border checkpoints (crossings, airports, etc), your 4th Amendment rights do not exist. BP can detain you, search your car, trunk, etc.., without a warrant, PC, or even a reasonable suspicion.
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Old 02-24-2011, 7:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonb View Post
Right but the whole point of this thread is how to not get arrested. Just because it is legal to do something, doesn't mean it is a good idea, case in point open carry. Sure you can legally OC, then get belligerent with an officer and give him the finger as you storm off, but that doesn't mean its a smart thing to do and I'll feel no sympathy for the guy who gets his *** handed to him after doing so.

So even though I can legally toss an unloaded pistol on my passenger seat, odds are I'm kissing asphalt if I get pulled over regardless of the law. So the smart thing to do would be to place it in a locked container. Just my 2 cents.
Your right on point. People dont seem to realize (except those of us with law degrees) that the your remedies against an unlawful arrest or search (exclusionary rule, fruit of the poisonous tree, etc) are only applicable after you have already been arrested.

Just because you can legally OC, doesnt mean that its always a good idea to do it. Why draw the attention to yourself? If a LE Officer thinks you look suspicious, they are going to engage you, and trying to tell them "No officer, Im excercising my Constitutional rights (even though the 2nd Amendment doesnt apply to the states, although the recent SCOTUS case held that it may), you cant arrest me" is not going to help you. If they want to arrest you, they will, and therefore your remedy only lies after the fact.

Walking around, trying to prove a point by carrying a gun because its your "right" is fine and dandy, but be reasonable about it. There is zero point to carrying your Glock OC while standing in line at McDonalds. Your just making everyone nervous who doesnt care about guns, and drawing unneccessary attention to yourself.

If you really want freedom to carry a gun, move to Arizona.
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  #156  
Old 02-28-2011, 2:22 PM
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It is a LOT better than it used to be.

1) a few years ago - you could not even GET EBR's in this state.

2) a few years ago - there were NO shall issue CCWs in CA (there are now in some counties, with more on the way).

Those are just examples. . .

This stuff is the result of work that people on this forum (and certain others) have done. Stick around and get involved. It's a major movement now - with thousands of people working in every county of the state to change these stupid laws - AND WE ARE WINNING.

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Originally Posted by ubet View Post
It fing turns my gut, that their has to be 8 pages of discussion, on a rifle to figure out whats legal and whats not. For godsake, I hate this state. Everyone is asking about "evil features" and flash suppresor, mag buttons, their are states you can own full auto, and have them SUPPRESSED! We dont have the faintest idea of what it means to be free anymore.
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  #157  
Old 03-04-2011, 11:19 AM
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Agreed - but don't let that give you a sense of false security. I know of people who were mistakenly arrested for mere possession of an off-list stripped receiver.

Until LE gets better training from the DOJ, we will see this kind of stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroEngi View Post
I had a question...if you want to be extra cautious about your AR, can you just remove the upper off of the lower and transport it that way without having to worry about any LEO giving you a hard time? Because technically, in that configuration, it is no longer a semi-automatic, centerfire rifle.

Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:30 PM
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We all go back and forth on that. I really do not have a good answer. . . although I tend towards the "no" answer. . .

See, I've never been asked (and in my younger days, I got pulled over a lot). So I have no direct experience, and I don't generally give advice unless it's something I am SURE about.

I think the main thing is to not even "get" on LE's RADAR. The best way to do that is to NOT have gun stickers on your vehicle, in this state. It's also good to look like a "normal" citizen (whatever THOSE are).



Of course, I'm one to talk!!! I have tattoos, a shaved head, and drive a 48 year old car with LOUD Flowmasters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.O.M. View Post
Quick questions. I'm 18, right about to purchase an AR.

Is there any time when you should be declaring you do have a firearm in the vehicle?

Or do you just remain silent on the firearms topic, and if it gets to it, shut the **** up and say you do not consent to a search and would like to remain silent?
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Old 03-08-2011, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.O.M. View Post
Quick questions. I'm 18, right about to purchase an AR.

Is there any time when you should be declaring you do have a firearm in the vehicle?

Or do you just remain silent on the firearms topic, and if it gets to it, shut the **** up and say you do not consent to a search and would like to remain silent?
just me personally, (not an expert by ANYONE's definition), if i get pulled over while transporting a OLL i am going to be polite, silent, answer his questions to the very MINIMUM, and if he asks if there are weapons, say yes. my undertanding of the rule to transport weapons is that they have to be in a locked container, not ready to fire. aka unload, in a locked container. ( a locked container is not the center console, or the glovebox) hope that helps
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Old 03-08-2011, 5:13 PM
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Yes - although I am fairly certain that you are not required to answer any questions. . .

I could be wrong, however. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOTU View Post
just me personally, (not an expert by ANYONE's definition), if i get pulled over while transporting a OLL i am going to be polite, silent, answer his questions to the very MINIMUM, and if he asks if there are weapons, say yes. my undertanding of the rule to transport weapons is that they have to be in a locked container, not ready to fire. aka unload, in a locked container. ( a locked container is not the center console, or the glovebox) hope that helps
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