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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #321  
Old 11-11-2010, 9:43 PM
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When I left, we were all happy......I come back to someone arguing with GENE about the legalities of AB962 in a thread that GENE started......WTF????????? I feel like i just turned my head right before the hot chick flashed the crowd....I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!?!?!?!
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  #322  
Old 11-11-2010, 9:51 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishPirate View Post
When I left, we were all happy......I come back to someone arguing with GENE about the legalities of AB962 in a thread that GENE started......WTF????????? I feel like i just turned my head right before the hot chick flashed the crowd....I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?!?!?!?!
But don't you realize that Fabio is smarter and prettier than I am? He wants to make sure that everyone realizes he predicted a couple of close cases that were free swings right! Therefor he's got gravitas. I mean, he changed the AW laws in California, right?

Wait.

So back to him making up words in the Penal Code that violate the Sixth Amendment...

-Gene
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  #323  
Old 11-11-2010, 9:53 PM
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Does he fancy himself some sort of OPFOR that is helping you sharpen your arguments?

In my experience, attorneys rarely participate in mock trials to help others for free.

Fabio, what, exactly, are we supposed to thank you for?
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  #324  
Old 11-11-2010, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
But don't you realize that Fabio is smarter and prettier than I am? He wants to make sure that everyone realizes he predicted a couple of close cases that were free swings right! Therefor he's got gravitas. I mean, he changed the AW laws in California, right?

Wait.

So back to him making up words in the Penal Code that violate the Sixth Amendment...

-Gene
you give me a couple of beers and I'll tell you you're pretty Gene
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  #325  
Old 11-12-2010, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojocorsa
I am not too familiar with carriers, but what happens if they come to drop off the merchandise and you aren't home--but they need ID?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese
Call tag on door. Retry delivery next day, and/or you have to traipse back to the hub office to sign for box and pick it up yourself.
I've tried this, and it is far too much of an inconvenience. I would think that would apply to most people, since most people are at work during the day.

I don't see how this loophole would help much. For me, it would be easier to build up a good stock, then ship all my ammo to my buddy's parents' house in Idaho, and have him pick it up when he goes to visit once a year.
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  #326  
Old 11-12-2010, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Does he fancy himself some sort of OPFOR that is helping you sharpen your arguments?

In my experience, attorneys rarely participate in mock trials to help others for free.

Fabio, what, exactly, are we supposed to thank you for?
No, he fancies himself a "laywer" apparently.
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  #327  
Old 11-12-2010, 9:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Creeping Incrementalism View Post
I've tried this, and it is far too much of an inconvenience. I would think that would apply to most people, since most people are at work during the day.

I don't see how this loophole would help much. For me, it would be easier to build up a good stock, then ship all my ammo to my buddy's parents' house in Idaho, and have him pick it up when he goes to visit once a year.
Or, on the call tag, there are instructions on how to pick the package up at the shipper's location at your convenience. The ID requirement could be addressed at that time.
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  #328  
Old 11-12-2010, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FS00008 View Post
FGG, you do realize you're not going to win this argument yes? Time to eat crow.
It turns out that the argument I made in post 235 (which I was basically making up as I went along) has already been won in a tobacco case, in another state, with a statute that was even less explicit than AB 962 that direct shipment by out-of-state (and in-state) retailers was prohibited and that retail sales of tobacco could occur only in-state, face-to-face, at the physical storefront of a tobacco retailer. AB 962 does exactly the same thing in exactly the same way -- bans direct shipment by defining "handgun ammunition vendor" (via PC 12060(c) and 12061(a)) as a retailer with a physical storefront in CA. Midway USA is not a "handgun ammunition vendor" as defined by AB 962 and therefore may not lawfully sell and direct ship handgun ammunition to CA residents. hoffmang won't talk about this case, and, like his argument that "sale" should be interpreted in the narrowest possible fashion as the split second where ownership is transferred for purposes of a UCC or sales tax analysis and should ignore every other component of the entire transaction, his "so what are you going to do about it?" argument ignores that criminal prosecution isn't the only remedy that CA has to enforce the direct shipment ban against out-of-state handgun ammunition retailers.

Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 11-12-2010 at 4:47 PM..
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  #329  
Old 11-12-2010, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
It turns out that the argument I made in post 235 (which I was basically making up as I went along) has already been won in a tobacco case, in another state, with a statute that was even less explicit than AB 962 that direct shipment by out-of-state (and in-state) retailers was prohibited and that retail sales of tobacco could occur only in-state, face-to-face, at the physical storefront of a tobacco retailer. AB 962 does exactly the same thing in exactly the same way -- bans direct shipment by defining "handgun ammunition vendor" (via PC 12060(c) and 12061(a)) as a retailer with a physical storefront in CA. Midway USA is not a "handgun ammunition vendor" as defined by AB 962 and therefore may not lawfully sell and direct ship handgun ammunition to CA residents. hoffmang won't talk about this case, and, like his argument that "sale" should be interpreted in the narrowest possible fashion as the split second where ownership is transferred for purposes of a UCC or sales tax analysis and should ignore every other component of the entire transaction, his "so what are you going to do about it?" argument ignores that criminal prosecution isn't the only remedy that CA has to enforce the direct shipment ban against out-of-state handgun ammunition retailers.


Are you talking about the Maine case? New Hampshire Transportation Association v. Rowe?

... because if you are, I think you need to go back and review the subsequent history on that one.
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  #330  
Old 11-12-2010, 6:34 PM
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It seems that FGG hasn't noticed that Rowe v New Hampshire Transport Association has been talked about a LOT in this thread...

The provisions of AB962 that are a part of this thread are preempted in exactly the same manner that the Rowe case was... Frankly, I'm surprised that FGG finally noticed... after all this time.
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  #331  
Old 11-12-2010, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
Are you talking about the Maine case? New Hampshire Transportation Association v. Rowe?

... because if you are, I think you need to go back and review the subsequent history on that one.
Nah, keep guessing.
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  #332  
Old 11-12-2010, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
It turns out that the argument I made in post 235 (which I was basically making up as I went along) has already been won in a tobacco case, in another state, with a statute that was even less explicit than AB 962 that direct shipment by out-of-state (and in-state) retailers was prohibited and that retail sales of tobacco could occur only in-state, face-to-face, at the physical storefront of a tobacco retailer. AB 962 does exactly the same thing in exactly the same way -- bans direct shipment by defining "handgun ammunition vendor" (via PC 12060(c) and 12061(a)) as a retailer with a physical storefront in CA. Midway USA is not a "handgun ammunition vendor" as defined by AB 962 and therefore may not lawfully sell and direct ship handgun ammunition to CA residents. hoffmang won't talk about this case, and, like his argument that "sale" should be interpreted in the narrowest possible fashion as the split second where ownership is transferred for purposes of a UCC or sales tax analysis and should ignore every other component of the entire transaction, his "so what are you going to do about it?" argument ignores that criminal prosecution isn't the only remedy that CA has to enforce the direct shipment ban against out-of-state handgun ammunition retailers.
Your argument hangs on the thought that a mail order transaction occurs in California. It does not. There is no way that Midway USA is covered by 12060 or 12061. The B&P code can't bootstrap you out of the fact that violations are misdemeanors either.

You have one additional large problem in your argument.
Quote:
12060 (c) "Handgun ammunition vendor" or "vendor" means any person,
firm, corporation, dealer, or any other business enterprise that is
engaged in the retail sale of any handgun ammunition, or that holds
itself out as engaged in the business of selling any handgun
ammunition.
An internet or mailorder sale is not a retail sale. I'll point you to Schwarzenegger v. EMA where that statute regulates the "retail sale" of certain violent video games. The state takes the position that that means that it doesn't regulate internet sales of the same violent video games.

Finally, did you note that the AG's office didn't adopt your argument?

-Gene
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  #333  
Old 11-12-2010, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
Nah, keep guessing.


At least gimme a hint here. What circuit?


Edit:

Actually, never mind. I'm not going to guess.

What is it, and why does it overrule Rowe, which is similar in virtually every single relevant aspect? I'd love to see how many motions of yours succeed if you try and pass off 'yeah, I know where the precedent is, but I'm gonna let you figure it out for yourself.' If you tried that, at least your client would have grounds for appeal based on incompetence of counsel when you lost the trial.

Last edited by Peter.Steele; 11-12-2010 at 10:07 PM..
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  #334  
Old 11-12-2010, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
Nah, keep guessing.
That's just plain trolling. Welcome to my ignore list.
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  #335  
Old 11-13-2010, 12:06 AM
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I just got a message from someone in Sacramento that cheaperthandirt does not ship to Sacramento. Any ideas on how this is?

Is the ammo registration there really having these type of affects?

This is the model area for ammo registration. It needs disassembled
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  #336  
Old 11-13-2010, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero View Post
Or, on the call tag, there are instructions on how to pick the package up at the shipper's location at your convenience. The ID requirement could be addressed at that time.
"At your convenience..." The entire process is inconvenient. Waiting for three failed attempts and then driving down there will usually be too much of a pain for most people to do it very often. I've done it before and am not much inclined to do it again without a pretty big reason. Not that it isn't an option for something you want badly or a huge order. But for your average gun owner or average purchase, the cost of the pickup exceeds the benefits of mail order.
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  #337  
Old 11-13-2010, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by puppy8a9 View Post
I just got a message from someone in Sacramento that cheaperthandirt does not ship to Sacramento. Any ideas on how this is?
Misinterpretation of city code by CTD:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sac...2009-12-03.pdf
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  #338  
Old 11-13-2010, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
It turns out that the argument I made in post 235 (which I was basically making up as I went along) has already been won in a tobacco case, in another state, with a statute that was even less explicit than AB 962 that direct shipment by out-of-state (and in-state) retailers was prohibited and that retail sales of tobacco could occur only in-state, face-to-face, at the physical storefront of a tobacco retailer. AB 962 does exactly the same thing in exactly the same way -- bans direct shipment by defining "handgun ammunition vendor" (via PC 12060(c) and 12061(a)) as a retailer with a physical storefront in CA. Midway USA is not a "handgun ammunition vendor" as defined by AB 962 and therefore may not lawfully sell and direct ship handgun ammunition to CA residents. hoffmang won't talk about this case, and, like his argument that "sale" should be interpreted in the narrowest possible fashion as the split second where ownership is transferred for purposes of a UCC or sales tax analysis and should ignore every other component of the entire transaction, his "so what are you going to do about it?" argument ignores that criminal prosecution isn't the only remedy that CA has to enforce the direct shipment ban against out-of-state handgun ammunition retailers.
Oh, you mean like I already mentioned how retail vehicle sales codes already set the standards and precedence for what qualifies as a TRANSFER vs. a SALE, yet you completely desregarded and discredited it by saying that it had no legal bounds here, because it was part of a different area of regulation, yet now you are backtracking upon and contradicting yourself again because it suits your means? I guess you really are a lawyer, just not a very good one (no offense intended towards the GOOD ones on this site).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
(which I was basically making up as I went along)
Wow, I am REALLY surprised there...
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  #339  
Old 11-13-2010, 1:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
Nah, keep guessing.
If it supports your argument, why would you force readers to guess?
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  #340  
Old 11-13-2010, 1:28 AM
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Because his is simply a full of s*!t anti, masquerading as a calgunner and lawyer.
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  #341  
Old 11-13-2010, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 383green View Post
That's just plain trolling. Welcome to my ignore list.
How many times have you "ignored' me now? Why don't you just do it once and be done with it?

I don't need to cite anything, this thread isn't a lawsuit and I'm not writing a brief. It is interesting though to see who has or hasn't done any research to evaluate the claim that "AB-962 Doesn't actually ban internet/mail order ammunition purchases." There is adverse authority and hoffmang still won't talk about it.
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  #342  
Old 11-13-2010, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
An internet or mailorder sale is not a retail sale. I'll point you to Schwarzenegger v. EMA where that statute regulates the "retail sale" of certain violent video games. The state takes the position that that means that it doesn't regulate internet sales of the same violent video games.
Where in the world are you getting the idea that the state is taking this position?

Quote:
Although application of the Act has yet to be construed by a state or federal court, the language and purpose of the Act indicate that its restrictions apply to online sales of violent video games. Section 1746 defines a video game as any “electronic amusement device that utilizes a computer, microprocessor, or other similar electronic circuitry.” The definition would appear to include both video games purchased online and physically shipped to a purchaser’s home, as well as games that are purchased and downloaded or played online. Thus, under the Act an online game that meets the definition of violent video game may not be sold to a minor. Cal. Civ. Code 1746.1(a).
The state even calls them "online retailers" lol.

By the way, you should tell the guy who filed the lawsuit to update his website, he apparently didn't get the memo that AB 962 doesn't ban online sales:

Quote:
On June 17, 2010, the CRPA Foundation filed a lawsuit in Fresno Superior Court challenging the ammunition regulation statutes enacted by Assemblyman Kevin De Leon’s Assembly Bill (AB) 962 from the 2009 legislative session. The suit challenges AB 962’s requirement that "handgun ammunition" be stored out of the reach of customers, the ammunition sales registration and fingerprinting requirements, and the bill’s prohibition on mail order and internet sales.

Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 11-13-2010 at 9:52 AM..
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  #343  
Old 11-13-2010, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
Where in the world are you getting the idea that the state is taking this position?
The author expected people to order ammo online and send it to a CA handgun ammuntion vendor. Too bad he forgot to write that part in the 2 hours he had to rip the bill apart. Your interpretation doesn't deal with that part of the leg intent. If you go read the CA brief in EMA you'll see that CA is making the case that way in that code which is not distinguishable here.


Quote:
The state even calls them "online retailers" lol.
Where? "online retailers" are not sales at retail.

Quote:
By the way, you should tell the guy who filed the lawsuit to update his website, he apparently didn't get the memo that AB 962 doesn't ban online sales:
It's a wiki and you have fingers.

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Last edited by hoffmang; 11-14-2010 at 1:13 PM..
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  #344  
Old 11-13-2010, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by oni.dori View Post
No, he fancies himself a "laywer" apparently.
Just a clown who likes to hear himself type was my guess.
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  #345  
Old 11-13-2010, 7:06 PM
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ANYWAYS, was the court hearing/injunction or whatever was suppose to happen on the 8th or the 18th of this month? just want to know the status thanks

(i am not well versed in law terminology but i think you guys know what i'm asking)
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  #346  
Old 11-13-2010, 8:00 PM
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ale014, as it currently stands, the docket reads that on Nov. 17, a hearing on the MPI will be held. On Dec. 16, a hearing will be held on the pleadings and the MSJ.
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  #347  
Old 11-14-2010, 2:51 AM
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Just a clown who likes to hear himself type was my guess.
Somehow, he associates hearing himself type as equating to being smarter than the people on this website who deal with this stuff PROFESSIONALLY ON A DAILY BASIS.
Also, the people that keep defending him as being a lawyer (because that AUTOMATICALLY means he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about) amuse me. I wager that they don't understand that, after you pass the BAR, you get licensed to practice A SPECIFIC TYPE OF LAW, and it is not an all-encompasing license; simply because the legal statutes are so complex and vast, that it would be near impossible for a single human being to comprehend, interpret them, whilst simultaneously putting them in to practice through their own practice. Just because he may have a license to practice something, like say, family law for example, does not mean he automatically can also master all other facets of law because he can technically be called "a lawyer".
Granted, a lawyer practicing other facets of law may (and I do severely emphasize the MAY) be able to wade through, and understand, the legalegaleze of different forms of law better than the average Joe; but not ALWAYS, and not necissarily any better than people in other non-lawyer positions that have to deal with different facets of the law or Government Regulations on a constant/daily basis.
I guess some people's egos (or agendas, in this case, because I am still thoroughly convinced he is a closet anti) outweigh their intelligence and good sensibilities.
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  #348  
Old 11-14-2010, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
........

I don't need to cite anything, this thread isn't a lawsuit and I'm not writing a brief. It is interesting though to see who has or hasn't done any research to evaluate the claim that "AB-962 Doesn't actually ban internet/mail order ammunition purchases." There is adverse authority and hoffmang still won't talk about it.

What you're saying is "I know why my argument is correct and if you don't know I'm certainly not going to tell you. I am right and your inability to understand that demonstrates your ignorance."

A subtle yet powerful debating technique.

I am at a loss to dispute with you.
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  #349  
Old 11-14-2010, 9:26 AM
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Damn, 40 posts and no-one has ragged about "ammunition" being misspelled in the title.
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  #350  
Old 11-14-2010, 9:59 AM
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Noel Noel is offline
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Wow I must admit, I am lost now... So do I need to stock pile ammo and what date does this bill go into effect?
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  #351  
Old 11-14-2010, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Noel View Post
Wow I must admit, I am lost now... So do I need to stock pile ammo and what date does this bill go into effect?
Is there ever a reason NOT to stockpile ammunition? The stuff pretty much always increases in cost/value and doesn't rot (unless you store that steel cased crap which will rush).

Imagine a declining dollar... you can buy a box of 50 rounds today for $10, if the value of the dollar fell, how much more do you think it'll cost to buy the same 50 rounds in the future? Using the CPI rate of 2-3% (ignoring the fluctionations of the dollar) and you'll see a constant increase in the price of ammo. Most of the heavy metals the US consumes are mined over seas, and those are also tied to the commodities market, and the value of the dollar. Finally, if SHTF, it's better to have a few extra boxes floating around than a few cans of soup - as $10 in ammo in a loaded gun will fill your belly a lot longer than a $10 of soup today.

Feb of next year IIRC
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  #352  
Old 11-14-2010, 1:22 PM
CSDGuy CSDGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by oni.dori View Post
Somehow, he associates hearing himself type as equating to being smarter than the people on this website who deal with this stuff PROFESSIONALLY ON A DAILY BASIS.
Also, the people that keep defending him as being a lawyer (because that AUTOMATICALLY means he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about) amuse me. I wager that they don't understand that, after you pass the BAR, you get licensed to practice A SPECIFIC TYPE OF LAW, and it is not an all-encompasing license; simply because the legal statutes are so complex and vast, that it would be near impossible for a single human being to comprehend, interpret them, whilst simultaneously putting them in to practice through their own practice. Just because he may have a license to practice something, like say, family law for example, does not mean he automatically can also master all other facets of law because he can technically be called "a lawyer".
Granted, a lawyer practicing other facets of law may (and I do severely emphasize the MAY) be able to wade through, and understand, the legalegaleze of different forms of law better than the average Joe; but not ALWAYS, and not necissarily any better than people in other non-lawyer positions that have to deal with different facets of the law or Government Regulations on a constant/daily basis.
I guess some people's egos (or agendas, in this case, because I am still thoroughly convinced he is a closet anti) outweigh their intelligence and good sensibilities.
A lawyer is a lawyer much in the same way that a Licensed Physician is a Licensed Physician. Is it a good idea if either tries to master all areas? No. They specialize, but that specialty isn't listed on their license. They get certifications and what not for specialty training, but that doesn't modify their actual license...

In other words, while a Pulmonologist is a Physician, it doesn't mean it's a great idea to practice as a Podiatrist on weekends. Laywers are the same. A lawyer practicing Con Law is still a Lawyer. It's just that it's probably NOT a good idea to suddenly also start practicing environmental law.

Last edited by CSDGuy; 11-14-2010 at 1:26 PM..
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  #353  
Old 11-14-2010, 3:49 PM
oni.dori oni.dori is offline
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What you're saying is "I know why my argument is correct and if you don't know I'm certainly not going to tell you. I am right and your inability to understand that demonstrates your ignorance."

A subtle yet powerful debating technique.

I am at a loss to dispute with you.
No, it is basically a "I have something that could be construed to possibly support/vaguely supports my POV, but could easily be picked apart", or a flat out "I don't really have anything, so I am making it up as I go along" (as he blatantly ADMITTED to earlier). Typical internet tuff guy routine there.

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Originally Posted by CSDGuy View Post
A lawyer is a lawyer much in the same way that a Licensed Physician is a Licensed Physician. Is it a good idea if either tries to master all areas? No. They specialize, but that specialty isn't listed on their license. They get certifications and what not for specialty training, but that doesn't modify their actual license...

In other words, while a Pulmonologist is a Physician, it doesn't mean it's a great idea to practice as a Podiatrist on weekends. Laywers are the same. A lawyer practicing Con Law is still a Lawyer. It's just that it's probably NOT a good idea to suddenly also start practicing environmental law.
Ya, and I pretty much admitted to that (although, I have always been under the impression that they were licensed to practice specific areas of law; like I thought that optometrists was a doctor licensed to practice optometry, a dentist is a doctor licensed to practice dentistry, etc.). Just becase some of the BASIC training is the same, doesn't meaning a majority, or at the very leaset, the specific training, is. Like I admitted, they may be more apt to be able to perform better in a wide-spectrum than an average Joe, but not necissarily any better than someone, say, like a nurse; who deals with it on a daily basis as well. I was applying the same logic to my previous analogy.
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  #354  
Old 11-14-2010, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Merle View Post
Is there ever a reason NOT to stockpile ammunition? The stuff pretty much always increases in cost/value and doesn't rot (unless you store that steel cased crap which will rush).

Stockpiling ammunition is like investing in a 401k that allows you to make withdrawals in the form of kinetic energy.
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  #355  
Old 11-14-2010, 5:53 PM
CSDGuy CSDGuy is offline
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Ya, and I pretty much admitted to that (although, I have always been under the impression that they were licensed to practice specific areas of law; like I thought that optometrists was a doctor licensed to practice optometry, a dentist is a doctor licensed to practice dentistry, etc.). Just becase some of the BASIC training is the same, doesn't meaning a majority, or at the very leaset, the specific training, is. Like I admitted, they may be more apt to be able to perform better in a wide-spectrum than an average Joe, but not necissarily any better than someone, say, like a nurse; who deals with it on a daily basis as well. I was applying the same logic to my previous analogy.
Those doctors you're referring to are basically limited to a very specific area of practice. For instance, and optometrist and an opthamologist are both doctors, but one has an unlimited license to practice medicine even though both practice in the field of vision care. The opthamologist is perfectly within legal rights to prescribe a beta blocker for hypertension whereas the optometrist can not. A lawyer's license is much like the opthamologist's license in that it's a general license to practice law. Specialization happens after the license is acquired.
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  #356  
Old 11-14-2010, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Merle View Post
Is there ever a reason NOT to stockpile ammunition? The stuff pretty much always increases in cost/value and doesn't rot (unless you store that steel cased crap which will rush).

Imagine a declining dollar... you can buy a box of 50 rounds today for $10, if the value of the dollar fell, how much more do you think it'll cost to buy the same 50 rounds in the future? Using the CPI rate of 2-3% (ignoring the fluctionations of the dollar) and you'll see a constant increase in the price of ammo. Most of the heavy metals the US consumes are mined over seas, and those are also tied to the commodities market, and the value of the dollar. Finally, if SHTF, it's better to have a few extra boxes floating around than a few cans of soup - as $10 in ammo in a loaded gun will fill your belly a lot longer than a $10 of soup today.

Feb of next year IIRC
Really?
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  #357  
Old 11-14-2010, 9:45 PM
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It's just that it's probably NOT a good idea to suddenly also start practicing environmental law.
I'm not a lawyer and I can admit I know **** all about environmental law...

Maybe that's why I can admit it.

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  #358  
Old 11-14-2010, 9:48 PM
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I'm not a lawyer and I can admit I know **** all about environmental law...
Is that D***, or S***? Just asking.
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  #359  
Old 11-14-2010, 10:13 PM
oni.dori oni.dori is offline
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I'm not a lawyer and I can admit I know **** all about environmental law...

Maybe that's why I can admit it.

-Gene
That still doesn't mean that you can't know anything about law, or be good at it. I have also found that being a lawyer does not automatically make you GOOD at it either.
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  #360  
Old 11-14-2010, 11:11 PM
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ale014, as it currently stands, the docket reads that on Nov. 17, a hearing on the MPI will be held. On Dec. 16, a hearing will be held on the pleadings and the MSJ.
Great thanks , i'll make sure i mark it on my calendar!
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