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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1  
Old 10-14-2010, 10:56 PM
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Default San Francisco

Anyone who gets denied in San Francisco Co (either by the city's PD or by the Sheriff's Office), and wants to fight it should read the following quote from my ("Paladin") post in the Monterey Co thread. (There they accept SD as GC, but push the GMC requirement.) The 14th Amendment Equal Protection applies to ALL aspects of the application process, not just GC and GMC.

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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification....

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

Last edited by Paladin; 07-09-2015 at 6:23 AM.. Reason: removed GCS avail from title; added suggestion re. 14th A EP
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2010, 2:37 PM
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No policy for the City and County of SF?

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/sfsheriff.gif

Allegedly, a copy of the CCW policy can be found in the San Francisco Sheriff's Department Policy and Procedures Manual.

This is said to be available on CD from:

Sheriff’s Department Administration Division
Room 456
City Hall
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Street
San Francisco, CA, 94102

The San Francisco Police Department (city) may or may not have a CCW policy.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2010, 2:57 PM
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Interestingly, SF *still* has no policy... yet.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2010, 3:02 PM
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oh i like that you posted that word; "yet"
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Old 10-18-2010, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tonelar View Post
oh i like that you posted that word; "yet"
county counsel and the sheriff sure don't like that word though.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2010, 4:20 PM
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it's san francisco. they don't issue to us mere mortals, no?

i'd love to apply for one. there's been a couple of muggings/beatings and shootings on my block to some of my neighbours, which makes me leery about things that go "bump in the night."

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Interestingly, SF *still* has no policy... yet.
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Old 10-18-2010, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rips31 View Post
it's san francisco. they don't issue to us mere mortals, no?

i'd love to apply for one. there's been a couple of muggings/beatings and shootings on my block to some of my neighbours, which makes me leery about things that go "bump in the night."
This is exactly what this forum is for -- to help well qualified applicants jump the various 'hoops' placed in their way and exercise their legal right to apply for a CCW.

San Francisco will be a 'last bastion' for CCW permit applications. That does not mean that they should be let off the hook when it comes to the absolute requirement to comply with the law.
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Old 10-19-2010, 1:24 AM
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it's san francisco. they don't issue to us mere mortals, no?
Absolutely not. You need to be a prominent local politician (Sen. Feinstein), a DA, etc.

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Originally Posted by rips31 View Post
i'd love to apply for one. there's been a couple of muggings/beatings and shootings on my block to some of my neighbours, which makes me leery about things that go "bump in the night."
You're not going to get one until SF gets whomped on the head in the courts. They're so dumb they will need to be whomped repeatedly and painfully. They seem to enjoy paying legal fees to the NRA, a they did with their Proposition H, which everyone knew would be thrown out in court, and yet SF still invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. Remember how the 101st Airborne had to be sent in to Little Rock, AR to assist them in complying with a court ruling to desegregate their school? I'm sure there are supervisors (Chris Daly comes to mind) who would fight against CCW issuance for ordinary people to that degree.

SF is the only consolidated city / county entity in California so it's in an unusual position WRT CCW issuance. SFPD and SF sheriff are both part of the same entity, even though they are separate bodies.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2010, 9:54 AM
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absolutely correct. esseff is just a major pain in the okole when it comes to 2a. most of the current establishment/machine is against 2a. however, with k.harris running for ag, she'll not be too involved in local politics after she gets out. c.daly is termed-out. the biggest hurdle is sheriff hennessy, who won't issue. we probably have some other lefty stupidvisors that are anti, but the hope is that there are cooler heads that may realize that a prolonged fight under the current 2a-climate is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Absolutely not. You need to be a prominent local politician (Sen. Feinstein), a DA, etc.

You're not going to get one until SF gets whomped on the head in the courts. They're so dumb they will need to be whomped repeatedly and painfully. They seem to enjoy paying legal fees to the NRA, a they did with their Proposition H, which everyone knew would be thrown out in court, and yet SF still invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. Remember how the 101st Airborne had to be sent in to Little Rock, AR to assist them in complying with a court ruling to desegregate their school? I'm sure there are supervisors (Chris Daly comes to mind) who would fight against CCW issuance for ordinary people to that degree.

SF is the only consolidated city / county entity in California so it's in an unusual position WRT CCW issuance. SFPD and SF sheriff are both part of the same entity, even though they are separate bodies.
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Old 10-19-2010, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rips31 View Post
absolutely correct. esseff is just a major pain in the okole when it comes to 2a. most of the current establishment/machine is against 2a. however, with k.harris running for ag, she'll not be too involved in local politics after she gets out. c.daly is termed-out. the biggest hurdle is sheriff hennessy, who won't issue. we probably have some other lefty stupidvisors that are anti, but the hope is that there are cooler heads that may realize that a prolonged fight under the current 2a-climate is a bad idea.
Eric Mar, or Daly Jr., is still elected so Daly's technically not termed out, he just carries his policies through Mar.
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Old 10-21-2010, 1:23 AM
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I have posted SF's approved good cause. That's singular since there is only 1.

We'll have more on that later; for now, if you have a good cause which is similar in nature to the approved GC statement, please email us at ccw@calgunsfoundation.org.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.p...-san-francisco
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Last edited by wildhawker; 10-21-2010 at 1:35 AM..
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2010, 6:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I have posted SF's approved good cause. That's singular since there is only 1.
Wow, I read it, and it's nothing too unusual. A deputy is facing termination and focuses on applicant. Well, a lot of people get angry if they are fired, and focus their anger on someone they think is responsible (a boss etc). In fact this is probably a major factor in workplace violence. So probably quite a few people in SF would be able to use that as a GC. Really anyone who is a boss and has to fire employees occasionally.
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Old 10-23-2010, 3:23 PM
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Wow, I read it, and it's nothing too unusual. A deputy is facing termination and focuses on applicant. Well, a lot of people get angry if they are fired, and focus their anger on someone they think is responsible (a boss etc). In fact this is probably a major factor in workplace violence. So probably quite a few people in SF would be able to use that as a GC. Really anyone who is a boss and has to fire employees occasionally.
Well the first thing that jumped to mind was that it was a the Deputy's supervisor -- but wait -- wouldn't that person BE a(n) LEO and already have the legal ability to CCW while off-duty?

So what it suggests is that the CCW holder is *not* a LEO, and either

1) a civilian employee of the department who, somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal, or

2) a civilian who isn't an employee of the department and is somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal.

Either way, this has the potential to be real insider-y.....

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Old 10-23-2010, 3:33 PM
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Why is there only 1 good caue statement? I thought they've issued about 20 CCWs or something like that in about 30 years...
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Old 10-24-2010, 2:08 PM
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Either way, this has the potential to be real insider-y.....
Clearly. It must have been a non-sworn sheriffs dept employee. So... that means that any employer in SF who dismisses an employee who is known to be armed and who makes threats should be similarly situated and should get a CCW. Most company owners, or anyone who has been through some firings, has received threats and angry reactions, so this good cause would apply to a lot of biz owners in SF.
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Old 10-24-2010, 5:22 PM
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It's not potentially insider-y, it is as insider-y as it gets.

I will be emailing the SF volunteers soon...

-Brandon

Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
Well the first thing that jumped to mind was that it was a the Deputy's supervisor -- but wait -- wouldn't that person BE a(n) LEO and already have the legal ability to CCW while off-duty?

So what it suggests is that the CCW holder is *not* a LEO, and either

1) a civilian employee of the department who, somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal, or

2) a civilian who isn't an employee of the department and is somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal.

Either way, this has the potential to be real insider-y.....

--Neill
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Old 10-24-2010, 5:53 PM
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It's not potentially insider-y, it is as insider-y as it gets.
Yeah! I can't wait.

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  #18  
Old 10-25-2010, 10:40 AM
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can't wait!

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I will be emailing the SF volunteers soon...
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:41 AM
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yea, but at least mar is less of a hot-head. then again, he's still out there, altho if the worst he can do is happy meal toys, he's more like daly-lite.

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Eric Mar, or Daly Jr., is still elected so Daly's technically not termed out, he just carries his policies through Mar.
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Old 10-25-2010, 2:15 PM
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As far as CCW is concerned San Fran. is the FERGIDDIT! county!
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Old 10-25-2010, 2:48 PM
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As far as CCW is concerned San Fran. is the FERGIDDIT! county!
I prefer to think of it as the Gold Rush county. If there's one county in the state where one can count on having one's Constitutional rights thoroughly violated, expensively and at length, it'd be SF.

Due process? What's that? This is Sparta San Francisco!

I wonder if LCAV will donate their legal services pro bono to defend the endless wave of CCW litigation from qualified San Francisco residents?
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Old 10-25-2010, 2:56 PM
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It would be wonderful to have Hennesey toe the line on this. He is such a pusillanimous lackey for the leftist aristocrats that run the city.
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Old 10-25-2010, 3:10 PM
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i think henney will be one of the hold-outs. we're gonna have to wiese both him and esseff. he/they will go down, kicking and screaming until the bitter end.
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Old 10-27-2010, 1:46 AM
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I'm glad CGF is taking SF to task for this. Good info, wildhawker!
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Old 10-27-2010, 9:15 AM
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Default Question regarding applications

How many people have applied and have been denied?
Or do people simply not apply because they know the answer...
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Old 10-27-2010, 9:23 AM
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Tagged.
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Old 10-27-2010, 9:25 AM
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How many people have applied and have been denied?
Or do people simply not apply because they know the answer...
The latter.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:14 AM
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Default ccw

I remember there was an article in one of the papers when Chief Fong was still around that said she was responsible for issuing ccws. Does the SFPD have a policy for issuing ccws?
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:59 PM
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sfs henney has pretty much said that he won't ever grant a ccw. thus, it falls to the sfpd/cop. but i don't think that cop will issue to non-politicians/judges. cop is appointed, so they don't have to worry about political donors like sfs does.
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Old 10-27-2010, 1:28 PM
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sfs henney has pretty much said that he won't ever grant a ccw. thus, it falls to the sfpd/cop. but i don't think that cop will issue to non-politicians/judges. cop is appointed, so they don't have to worry about political donors like sfs does.
But...he did grant a CCW to someone. Remember, "insidery as it gets" means something.
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Old 10-27-2010, 3:35 PM
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yep, hence my 'pretty much' disclaimer.

how does the 'insidery' part help us ordinary citizens, since none of us can claim the same 'good' cause. guess we can't exactly cry discrimination, since that cause was so specific. then again, if youse all have something up that sleeve, i wouldn't mind at all.

oh, well...like i said, esseff will be kicking and screaming until the end.

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But...he did grant a CCW to someone. Remember, "insidery as it gets" means something.
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Old 10-29-2010, 2:16 PM
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If this person is a politician, can their name be posted?
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Old 10-29-2010, 2:54 PM
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If this person is a politician, can their name be posted?
As morally corrupt as this particular situation is, we will not "out" any CCW holder or applicant. We made a public commitment to preserve the privacy of the applicants whose information we requested as part of this investigation, and are firmly committed to maintaining it.

Our goal is to make carry permits accessible to all, not produce a "gotcha" journalism piece.
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  #34  
Old 10-29-2010, 5:32 PM
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What if that holder is Juliet Leftwich or Paul Helmke? Or can you at least give us a hint? "A major victim disarmament proponent himself/herself hypocritically refuses to be a victim."
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Old 10-29-2010, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
As morally corrupt as this particular situation is, we will not "out" any CCW holder or applicant. We made a public commitment to preserve the privacy of the applicants whose information we requested as part of this investigation, and are firmly committed to maintaining it.

Our goal is to make carry permits accessible to all, not produce a "gotcha" journalism piece.
And that is the right approach and right goal, even though it reduces a little bit of PR leverage.

Your description just makes me want to know who it is even more, though

Looking forward to storming the gates --

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Old 10-29-2010, 6:11 PM
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What if that holder is Juliet Leftwich or Paul Helmke? Or can you at least give us a hint? "A major victim disarmament proponent himself/herself hypocritically refuses to be a victim."
Helmke doesn't live in California, so no. Leftwich, I don't know where she lives. Who cares?

The good cause will be available soon enough.

-Gray
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Old 10-29-2010, 8:14 PM
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The good cause will be available soon enough.

-Gray
[homer] But I want it NOW[/homer]
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Old 10-29-2010, 9:20 PM
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[homer] But I want it NOW[/homer]
It's already posted here.
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Old 10-30-2010, 1:53 PM
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PDF Does not work for me, I attempt to open it and all I get is a blank page..
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Former "Subject" of the People's Republic of California in "exile" in Washington State.
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Old 10-30-2010, 1:58 PM
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safewaysecurity safewaysecurity is offline
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That's only 1 good cause statement
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudakidd View Post
I want Blood for Oil. Heck I want Blood for Oil over hand wringing sentiment!
^
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