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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:37 AM
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Default Let's all apply for a CCW Permit at the same time

Continuing to read on a daily basis all of the UOC threads going round and round I had a thought, perhaps because all of the going around is making me dizzy. What if everyone on CalGuns applied for a CCW Permit? All within the same say, week? Maybe that is the way to change things. Thousands and thousands and thousands of applications, pretty well all of which I think would be denied. Would those involved sit up and take notice? Would some of the departments see the volume itself and start to think, whoa, someone is going to notice we are turning down thousands of people who may not have the best reason (in our mind) to have a Permit, but certainly have nothing in their background indicating they shouldn't. Every person turned down could write to their elected officials about the denial and ask them why? Would the politicians take notice? Would this make a difference? I have seen posts stating once one has been turned down it may have a negative effect on the next application, but I can't recall seeing that backed up by facts so I don't know if that is true. Be interesting to see what would happen when they are faced with many thousands of applications, eh? It wouldn't be that hard to organize, just put a blast on every forum on CalGuns, and invite all the other gun boards to do the same. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:43 AM
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I think that people see the question on the application of "have you ever been turned down for a permit " and assume that it is going to be held against you when you apply in another county.

I talked to the retired under-sheriff up here who used to screen applications and he says that they are looking for "bad character" items not for things like being turned down for insufficient "good cause" in LA county.
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jazman View Post
Would some of the departments see the volume itself and start to think, whoa, someone is going to notice we are turning down thousands of people who may not have the best reason (in our mind) to have a Permit, but certainly have nothing in their background indicating they shouldn't.

....politcians take notice?
Did you assume that any of the above give a $%^&?

If it doesn't involve a pay increase, more bennies and higher pension for them....they don't care.

Start cutting into those - you might get their attention....

.
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jazman View Post
Continuing to read on a daily basis all of the UOC threads going round and round I had a thought, perhaps because all of the going around is making me dizzy. What if everyone on CalGuns applied for a CCW Permit? All within the same say, week? Maybe that is the way to change things. Thousands and thousands and thousands of applications, pretty well all of which I think would be denied. Would those involved sit up and take notice? Would some of the departments see the volume itself and start to think, whoa, someone is going to notice we are turning down thousands of people who may not have the best reason (in our mind) to have a Permit, but certainly have nothing in their background indicating they shouldn't. Every person turned down could write to their elected officials about the denial and ask them why? Would the politicians take notice? Would this make a difference? I have seen posts stating once one has been turned down it may have a negative effect on the next application, but I can't recall seeing that backed up by facts so I don't know if that is true. Be interesting to see what would happen when they are faced with many thousands of applications, eh? It wouldn't be that hard to organize, just put a blast on every forum on CalGuns, and invite all the other gun boards to do the same. Thoughts?
I'm sure this will open debate about the possible negative impact on applying in the future when it may (or may not) easier to obtain a CCW. Or, if one moves to a free state, how a CA denial might affect obtaining one in the real world.

Having said that, my first thought is what the folks over at CalCCW forum would have to say, as well as Gene and others here that have a better working knowledge than I of what impact this may have.

On the face of it, I think it's a great idea. It might also garner some press, seeing as how the recession has a lot of people worried about crime, and the recent decison on Thune-Nelson Reciprocity Bill.

I'll be subscribing to this thread.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:51 AM
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I'm sure this will open debate about the possible negative impact on applying in the future when it may (or may not) easier to obtain a CCW. Or, if one moves to a free state, how a CA denial might affect obtaining one in the real world.

Having said that, my first thought is what the folks over at CalCCW forum would have to say, as well as Gene and others here that have a better working knowledge than I of what impact this may have.

On the face of it, I think it's a great idea. It might also garner some press, seeing as how the recession has a lot of people worried about crime, and the recent decison on Thune-Nelson Reciprocity Bill.

I'll be subscribing to this thread.
My second thought is we would time it, rely on Gene et al to let us know when it would do the most good and do it at that time.
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:56 AM
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Folks, Nordkye went en banc so as of now, we don't have incorporation of RKBA anymore.

So such an effort makes no sense now.
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:02 PM
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Folks, Nordkye went en banc so as of now, we don't have incorporation of RKBA anymore.

So such an effort makes no sense now.
Sounds like timing to me. No sense making such an effort only to have it cost money for no good reason.

What is written above kinda makes me ill.

"We don't have incorporation of Right To Keep and Bear Arms anymore"

That's a sad statement to see in print.
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:23 PM
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Forget the 'we don't have incorporation...' part and clear it up - in CA we don't have RKBA (period).
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:47 PM
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Folks, send a thousand applications into Sheriff Baca, or others of his ilk, and all that will happen (in the fullness of time) is that a thousand reject letters will get sent out and any time and money you invested might as well have been thrown in the gutter.

Does anyone really think they would care? Do you think that anyone outside the sheriff's department would even know?

About the only effect would be the negative one of slowing down the issue of CCW's for those very few applications that do get accepted.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:54 PM
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Great idea - can you say "group fail"
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Old 07-30-2009, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Folks, Nordkye went en banc so as of now, we don't have incorporation of RKBA anymore.

So such an effort makes no sense now.
Emphasis added so you folks notice the very relevant bits. Guys, save your application fees for the moment.

Write your 'good cause' letters if it makes you feel any better. I did so a few months back, but I'm not going to use it for some time. It's a useful mental exercise, though.

I am fairly sure there will be a time, post-RKBA, that it makes sense to do this. Bear in mind that even if RKBA doesn't come as a result of Nordyke, we have a national level full court press for incorporation. If it doesn't come via California, it will come from another state.
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2009, 1:54 PM
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Great idea - can you say "group fail"
Yes.
Group fail.

Good intentions and creative thinking born of the frustration of living in a communist bankrupt "state" that breaks the law every day they infringe upon my rights. I'm tired of waiting for something to change that never should have been allowed to occur in the first place.

Please excuse the rant.
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2009, 2:15 PM
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Default CCW permits.

We should wait until the dust has settled on the 2nd amendment incorporation issue.

I can't see the SCOTUS not incoporating the 2nd. Wheter or not the 9th incorporates will be a moot issue.

Of course if the 9th does incorporate, it means we can move sooner.

When that happens, we will see action not only in the "Sykes case", but in the San Diego and Orange county sheriff races as well.

Between the "Sykes case" and the political races.

I would love to see mass CCW applications, but at this time, it would be a wasted effort.

Perhaps what we should do though is considering creating our own regional Calguns task forces where a few Key people will want to take the lead on local action regarding CCWs.

The CCW issue is not a big issue to most gun owners, even in states that are shall issue, the numbers of people who get CCW permits represents only about 1 to 2 percent of the population.

On this board we have 10,000 active members, at best, maybe 1000 people would actively do something and that is in the WHOLE state. I hope I am wrong on my numbers.

Perhaps the best thing we could do with CCW is to use it for some form of public outreach.

Nicki
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2009, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
We should wait until the dust has settled on the 2nd amendment incorporation issue.

I can't see the SCOTUS not incoporating the 2nd. Wheter or not the 9th incorporates will be a moot issue.

Of course if the 9th does incorporate, it means we can move sooner.

When that happens, we will see action not only in the "Sykes case", but in the San Diego and Orange county sheriff races as well.

Between the "Sykes case" and the political races.

I would love to see mass CCW applications, but at this time, it would be a wasted effort.

Perhaps what we should do though is considering creating our own regional Calguns task forces where a few Key people will want to take the lead on local action regarding CCWs.

The CCW issue is not a big issue to most gun owners, even in states that are shall issue, the numbers of people who get CCW permits represents only about 1 to 2 percent of the population.

On this board we have 10,000 active members, at best, maybe 1000 people would actively do something and that is in the WHOLE state. I hope I am wrong on my numbers.

Perhaps the best thing we could do with CCW is to use it for some form of public outreach.

Nicki
I'd like to know what the statistics would be on CCW if CA was to become a Shall Issue state. Would it be about the same as the other states you cite, 1 or 2%?
Or would the sudden availability of forbidden fruit jack up the percentage.
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2009, 3:35 PM
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I can't believe California has no RKBA in its constitution.
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Old 07-30-2009, 3:44 PM
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I can
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Old 07-30-2009, 3:45 PM
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Have any of you tried to get one? I live in the City of Los Angeles, and decided to find out, since there is no information listed on the LAPD website. I called their General Info number, and simply said, "I would like to know how to apply for a Concealed Carry permit from the LAPD."

1st call - LAPD: "Oh, I don't know... try this number. (gives number)

2nd call - LAPD: "You won't get one. (gives another phone number)

3rd call - LAPD: "For what, a gun?"
Me: "Yes."
LAPD: "The likelihood of that happening is not great."
Me: "OK."
LAPD: "Try this number. (gives another phone number)

4th call - LAPD: "Generally, you won't get one."
Me: "OK."
LAPD: "You understand that we dont do that in California."
Me: "I understand that California isn't a 'Shall Issue' state, and that I will need 'Good Cause'."
LAPD: "It isn't about that. The Chief of Police gives those out, and we just haven't given one of those out for.. well, decades."
Me: "Actually, the Chief has given them out in the recent past, and there are probably over a thousand LA County residents who have them."
LAPD: "Where did you get that information?"
Me: "It's publicly available on the internet."
LAPD: "Then why are you calling me?"
Me: "Because the information to actually apply isn't available anywhere."
LAPD: "Well, I don't know how to even find that information. Let me call you back."

(calls me back) - Call #5

LAPD: "OK, you have to call this number, its the Gun Division. They'll mail you an application. Good Luck."

Call #6 - LAPD: "Oh, the guy that deals with that went home. He's off tomorrow, so call back on Monday."

That's it - now my curiosity has been fulfilled. If any of you Los Angeles residents actually want the phone number and officer's name who handles CCWs, PM Me.
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Old 07-30-2009, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jello2594 View Post
Have any of you tried to get one? I live in the City of Los Angeles, and decided to find out, since there is no information listed on the LAPD website. I called their General Info number, and simply said, "I would like to know how to apply for a Concealed Carry permit from the LAPD."

1st call - LAPD: "Oh, I don't know... try this number. (gives number)

2nd call - LAPD: "You won't get one. (gives another phone number)

3rd call - LAPD: "For what, a gun?"
Me: "Yes."
LAPD: "The likelihood of that happening is not great."
Me: "OK."
LAPD: "Try this number. (gives another phone number)

4th call - LAPD: "Generally, you won't get one."
Me: "OK."
LAPD: "You understand that we dont do that in California."
Me: "I understand that California isn't a 'Shall Issue' state, and that I will need 'Good Cause'."
LAPD: "It isn't about that. The Chief of Police gives those out, and we just haven't given one of those out for.. well, decades."
Me: "Actually, the Chief has given them out in the recent past, and there are probably over a thousand LA County residents who have them."
LAPD: "Where did you get that information?"
Me: "It's publicly available on the internet."
LAPD: "Then why are you calling me?"
Me: "Because the information to actually apply isn't available anywhere."
LAPD: "Well, I don't know how to even find that information. Let me call you back."

(calls me back) - Call #5

LAPD: "OK, you have to call this number, its the Gun Division. They'll mail you an application. Good Luck."

Call #6 - LAPD: "Oh, the guy that deals with that went home. He's off tomorrow, so call back on Monday."

That's it - now my curiosity has been fulfilled. If any of you Los Angeles residents actually want the phone number and officer's name who handles CCWs, PM Me.
PM sent. I recently had a conversation with some LAPD officers. I had stopped them as they drove by because I wanted to inquire about a rash of eight armed robberies that had occurred in my neighborhood around Melrose district.

They were unaware of any robberies, even though there had been posters on the telephone poles around the area for days and police reports had obviously been filed.

I told them I feared for my safety and was not happy a CCW was so difficult to get.
Their response: "
And you won't get one either, we don't want you to have that. That's why you have us."
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Old 07-30-2009, 5:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jello2594 View Post
Have any of you tried to get one? I live in the City of Los Angeles, and decided to find out, since there is no information listed on the LAPD website. I called their General Info number, and simply said, "I would like to know how to apply for a Concealed Carry permit from the LAPD."

1st call - LAPD: "Oh, I don't know... try this number. (gives number)

2nd call - LAPD: "You won't get one. (gives another phone number)

3rd call - LAPD: "For what, a gun?"
Me: "Yes."
LAPD: "The likelihood of that happening is not great."
Me: "OK."
LAPD: "Try this number. (gives another phone number)

4th call - LAPD: "Generally, you won't get one."
Me: "OK."
LAPD: "You understand that we dont do that in California."
Me: "I understand that California isn't a 'Shall Issue' state, and that I will need 'Good Cause'."
LAPD: "It isn't about that. The Chief of Police gives those out, and we just haven't given one of those out for.. well, decades."
Me: "Actually, the Chief has given them out in the recent past, and there are probably over a thousand LA County residents who have them."
LAPD: "Where did you get that information?"
Me: "It's publicly available on the internet."
LAPD: "Then why are you calling me?"
Me: "Because the information to actually apply isn't available anywhere."
LAPD: "Well, I don't know how to even find that information. Let me call you back."

(calls me back) - Call #5

LAPD: "OK, you have to call this number, its the Gun Division. They'll mail you an application. Good Luck."

Call #6 - LAPD: "Oh, the guy that deals with that went home. He's off tomorrow, so call back on Monday."

That's it - now my curiosity has been fulfilled. If any of you Los Angeles residents actually want the phone number and officer's name who handles CCWs, PM Me.
It's called Denial by Runaround, DBR.

It's one of the reasons why TBJ says, "Never ask them in person or on the phone. Do everything in writing." If they are stupid enough to say "You won't get one" or "We don't issue them" in writing, you've started your case for improper administration. If they say it verbally, nine out of ten will go away and not show on their denial records. That's how these people control you.

If you haven't already done so, read our website. You might not like everything about Billy Jack, but he's been dealing with these people for years and does know how to do it. Get your ducks in a row BEFORE you fire a damp squib.
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2009, 9:47 AM
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I had my interview with LAPD today for my CA CCW. The interview process was pretty easy and laid back. The officer who deals with CCWs told me that he gets about 4 per week, and that mine would take about 3 months to go through the vetting process, including going to the Deputy Chief, and finally to Chief Bratton (or whoever replaces him).

He told me that while LAPD does not yet require a personal liability insurance policy by the holder, they are looking into that in the near future, which may or may not affect my application. He appreciated my Good Cause statement and said that he sees many applications where the Good Cause is simply listed as "For personal protection" or something similar - and referred to that as not being a good reason. He was really very nice and cordial.

I told him that in just trying to get the proper phone number, multiple officers told me that I had no chance, without even knowing the purpose. He said that he wasn't aware that was going on. After the interview process, he told me that Los Angeles is definitely one of the more difficult places in California to get a CCW, and that he deals with every applicant.

I was in and out of the interview in 15 minutes. Made the appointment yesterday afternoon and got a spot this morning.

Oh, I also had to get the proper safety and use training before the interview would be granted, and gave copies of the certificate, ID, and utility bill.
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Old 08-18-2009, 3:49 PM
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What's better than "personal protection" ? "To shoot stuff"???? Cheese is christ...
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Old 08-18-2009, 4:05 PM
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So such an effort makes no sense now.
Unless it vents off a bit of the pressure-cooker energy that is always threatening to blow....

7x57
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I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.
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Old 08-18-2009, 4:06 PM
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What's better than "personal protection" ? "To shoot stuff"????


7x57
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I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.
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  #24  
Old 10-30-2010, 8:06 AM
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Ah, finally an update. After over a year, I've gotten this letter from LAPD.
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Old 10-30-2010, 8:24 AM
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Holy Necro Batman!!
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Old 10-30-2010, 8:39 AM
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A**holes.
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Old 10-30-2010, 9:52 AM
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Traitorous scumbag dances on every disarmed law-abiding victim's grave.
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  #28  
Old 10-30-2010, 11:33 AM
N6ATF N6ATF is offline
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LOL, yep. Criminals' lives are significant, that's why they must be saved by disarming their victims.
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  #29  
Old 10-30-2010, 12:57 PM
CCWFacts CCWFacts is offline
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Originally Posted by bodger View Post
I told them I feared for my safety and was not happy a CCW was so difficult to get.
Their response: "
And you won't get one either, we don't want you to have that. That's why you have us."
That is EXACTLY what is going on with CCWs in this state.

The public safety unions understand perfectly well that their grotesquely enormous pension packages work because voters have a simple equation: "I'm afraid of being a victim of crime so I'll vote more $$$ for the police". That's it. CCW demolishes that equation, because it creates another, more direct solution to the fear problem: "I'm afraid of being a victim of crime, and so I'll get a CCW".

It sounds like a small thing but it will have a big effect on the public safety unions, and the unions know it, and those LAPD cops you mention articulated it directly. "If you could get a CCW, you wouldn't feel the need to give us multi-million-dollar pensions".
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  #30  
Old 10-30-2010, 1:04 PM
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cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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so isnt this a little bit like extortion? I mean we have a defined right to arms. That right wasnt in the interest of sporting endeavor....
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  #31  
Old 10-31-2010, 9:23 PM
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Yeah. Beck's whole damn family is LE both active and retired, they all get to carry on and off duty.

Joe Blow can just dial 911 and bleed out.
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2010, 12:02 AM
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Holy Necro Batman!!
Yeah, that was my first though, until I saw that this was an update to an ongoing situation. (CCW's take forever and a day in antagonistic areas).

The part that gets me with your denial letter. The review board said "Go for it" and the cops said "ummm... no."

And why the hell are they sending you to the Gang Division to answer questions?
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