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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-07-2010, 10:25 PM
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Default Open Carry with Blanks?

Can one legally open carry a handgun loaded with blanks? With Halloween coming I'm sorta curious. I suspect that blaNks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder. And yes, I am aware that blanks can be dangerous for a number of reasons...

Last edited by Kynoch; 10-08-2010 at 12:38 AM..
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:25 PM
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No.

Discharge of blanks would also be illegal.


A good attorney MIGHT be able to get you off, since the blank doesn't actually fire a projectile, but it would be a long, uphill battle, since the law prohibits "discharge of a firearm", and the definition of firearm includes the clause "designed to fire a projectile", thus, even though the cartridge is a blank, it would still be discharging a firearm.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Open Carry with Blanks?

Don't.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:29 PM
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I suspect that blacks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder.


And seriously, don't. Pretty stupid way to end up on the 10 o'clock news.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Can one legally open carry a handgun loaded with blanks? With Halloween coming I'm sorta curious. I suspect that blacks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder. And yes, I am aware that blanks can be dangerous for a number of reasons...
Not unless you wanna try to make history !!! The People vs Kynoch, but you'll have to win to make history !!!
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:49 PM
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why would anyone carry blanks in their gun ?
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:02 PM
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You can't fire the gun so not having anything in the catridge doesn't matter.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:06 PM
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Wow...like LE doesn't have enough to deal with on Halloween...respond to a "man with a gun" call and show up as you "playfully" fire your blanks in the air...dude...really?
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:13 PM
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Hahahahah...


Kynoch is shooting blanks!
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
I suspect that blacks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder.
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Originally Posted by Gofasterdammit View Post



Is your gun racist????
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:39 PM
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What about inert cartridges?
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Can one legally open carry a handgun loaded with blanks? With Halloween coming I'm sorta curious. I suspect that blacks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder. And yes, I am aware that blanks can be dangerous for a number of reasons...
This post is brought to you by the letter alcohol.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:54 PM
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What about inert cartridges?
No bang...no problem but make sure the primers have been removed/fired
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Can one legally open carry a handgun loaded with blanks? With Halloween coming I'm sorta curious. I suspect that blacks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder. And yes, I am aware that blanks can be dangerous for a number of reasons...
Now, you're asking about whether or not you can bring a REAL firearm out in public and use black cartridges in it, right?

If that's the case, I would definitely not recommend you do that, unless you want to have a big debt to pay to the local authorities as well as any potential defense lawyer you'll be hiring.

But if you were to use a special prop gun that actually can fire specially made blank cartridges and can never be altered to fire a real projectile, you probably would still have to deal with authorities and be charged in some way, but not as severely as you would have been had you used a real firearm using blank cartridges.

I remember back when my friend's son was given a lecture by the San Francisco Police Department's SWAT Team.;

The son was attending a local Japanese Animation Convention which was holding a costume contest. The son and his friend dressed up in costume as characters from the "Resident Evil" video games and they carried around airsoft guns that they even decorated with paint and tape to look even more fake. Someone in the area got spooked and called in the SFPD SWAT Team, reportedly claiming that "armored terrorists with machine guns were walking around Japan town".

Now of course, the son's costume as well as his friends looked very authentic to their video game counterparts, who really like to favor guns such as the MP5 and Remington 870 shotgun. One of the characters also wore what looked like some sort of thick ballistic armor, a PASGT fake helmet and gas mask, while the other character wore knee & elbow pads, a drop leg holster with an M9 pistol and a knife on his shoulder.

During the costume contest, they were approached by a Police Sergeant in a SFPD SWAT Jumpsuit. He pulled them to the side and simply talked to them about their arms, asking them if they were real. The son and his friend stated that they were fake and offered them to the Police Sergeant. He inspected the arms and gave them back to the son and his friend, but also told them why he was even there. He said to the duo that their costumes looked very militaristic and real, especially the one who was wearing the helmet and armor.

The son and his friend were shocked about it. They both apologized and the Police Sergeant was very nice about it as well. He simply asked that the two put away the airsoft guns and there would be nothing else to worry about. The son and his friend agreed and were about to bring the airsoft guns back to their car when the Sergeant's Watch Commander came up.

From what the son told me, it was a woman and she actually wanted to confiscate the airsoft guns. Luckily, the Sergeant managed to talk her out of it and stated that something like "It's like Halloween to them right now. A lot of attendees here are wearing costumes. I don't think we need to take them (the airsoft guns) away...." to which the Watch Commander let the son and his friend put their airsoft guns away instead.

The rest of the day, the son and his friend were laughing about the incident but also very proud of it as well, because their costumes looked so menacing and real.

Take that example for what you will, but that incident did happen and only airsoft guns were being displayed.


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Old 10-08-2010, 12:37 AM
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Wow...like LE doesn't have enough to deal with on Halloween...respond to a "man with a gun" call and show up as you "playfully" fire your blanks in the air...dude...really?
Good grief...

Many years ago back in college I remember firing a revolver (45 Long Colt) with blanks in a large and very noisy club/disco on Halloween. No one even looked over at us except maybe a doper or two that was curious about the gunpowder smell...
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:41 AM
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This post is brought to you by the letter alcohol.
Pardon me? Are you lying and suggesting that I have been drinking? I have not. Or are you suggesting you're inebriated? Who cares if you are?
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by quick draw mcgraw View Post


Is your gun racist????
Maybe a few of the older Colts...
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Old 10-08-2010, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BoxesOfLiberty View Post
This post is brought to you by the letter alcohol.
Okay, I seriously laughed out loud when I read this.
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Old 10-08-2010, 1:01 AM
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I called the sheriffs dept once and asked them is a gun loaded with blanks would be considered loaded. He said he would check it out, and call me back. 20 minutes later he did, and said after looking in the PC, and talking to some other deputies, the answer was no, it would not be loaded, since a blank cartridge doesn't fire a projectile. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled for it.
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Old 10-08-2010, 1:09 AM
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Originally Posted by santacruzstefan View Post
I called the sheriffs dept once and asked them is a gun loaded with blanks would be considered loaded. He said he would check it out, and call me back. 20 minutes later he did, and said after looking in the PC, and talking to some other deputies, the answer was no, it would not be loaded, since a blank cartridge doesn't fire a projectile. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled for it.
I would imagine all the UOC rules would apply.
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Old 10-08-2010, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by santacruzstefan View Post
I called the sheriffs dept once and asked them is a gun loaded with blanks would be considered loaded. He said he would check it out, and call me back. 20 minutes later he did, and said after looking in the PC, and talking to some other deputies, the answer was no, it would not be loaded, since a blank cartridge doesn't fire a projectile. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled for it.
I know within the last 4-5 years I asked a stater at a track meet (S&W Model 29) if he needed a special license. He said no. The .44 was much more impressive than the wimpy .38 starter pistols.
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Old 10-08-2010, 1:56 AM
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What about Snap Caps?
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Old 10-08-2010, 7:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santacruzstefan View Post
I called the sheriffs dept once and asked them is a gun loaded with blanks would be considered loaded. He said he would check it out, and call me back. 20 minutes later he did, and said after looking in the PC, and talking to some other deputies, the answer was no, it would not be loaded, since a blank cartridge doesn't fire a projectile. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled for it.
Hassled, hell, you might get shot.

There was a guy who was killed by the police at a Halloween party a few years back when they responded to a noise complaint. They saw him through a window with a gun in his hand as he was pointing it at another costumed party goer. The police shot him through the window assuming the gun to be real, and the man to be a criminal.

The gun wasn't real, it was a costume piece, realistic, but fake.

Take that to the next level. You are at a party, you don't know it but the cops have been called by someone for some reason. You pull your REAL gun out, and fire off a few "rounds" into the air just as the LEOs enter.

Fast forward.

The EMT's were not able to stop the bleeding from the 19 bullet holes in your torso, you were pronounced DEAD ON ARRIVAL by the E.R. Doctor.

You make the news, and your family mourns.

Happy Halloween.
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Old 10-08-2010, 7:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Can one legally open carry a handgun loaded with blanks? With Halloween coming I'm sorta curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Many years ago back in college I remember firing a revolver (45 Long Colt) with blanks in a large and very noisy club/disco on Halloween. No one even looked over at us except maybe a doper or two that was curious about the gunpowder smell...
Be careful with costumes and guns (even unloaded ones), you could get charged with criminal possession of a firearm which is a felony. From 12040:

Quote:
(a) A person commits criminal possession of a firearm when
he or she carries a firearm in a public place or on any public street
while masked so as to hide his or her identity.
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Old 10-08-2010, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santacruzstefan View Post
I called the sheriffs dept once and asked them is a gun loaded with blanks would be considered loaded. He said he would check it out, and call me back. 20 minutes later he did, and said after looking in the PC, and talking to some other deputies, the answer was no, it would not be loaded, since a blank cartridge doesn't fire a projectile. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled for it.

Not sure I buy that one and would really want to verify it. I regularly go to WWII reenactments with various bolt action rifles and blank adapted semi-autos (P38, G43, SVT40 etc.). I would never transport any of these firearms with a blank in the chamber or in a magazine in the gun.

We treat these guns exactly the same as guns with live ammo: Its loaded if there is a round in the magazine or chamber. I suspect that any LEO would treat them the same way...

Tim
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Old 10-08-2010, 9:31 AM
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http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=113971
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Old 10-08-2010, 9:31 AM
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Reenactments was what I thought as well. Timdps mentions WWII, but don't forget the cowboy gunfight stuff. I would think the prudent thing to do before planning any sort of public reenactment is to make certain local LE know about it before hand to avoid any drama. But it does raise an interesting question - if I ever did participate in a reenactment I wouldn't want to risk being charged with a loaded weapon.
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Old 10-08-2010, 9:40 AM
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I was a WWII Re-enactor for about 6 years as well Timdps. We've been hassled by Cops, Fish & Game, and BLM guys even out at events! On private or rented land.

What would you think if you were LEO coming on to a scene in the middle of desert seeing German and American tanks, half-tracks, and troops going at it with blanks?

Blanks = hassle. It's an interesting idea, but don't do it. Not worth it.
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Old 10-08-2010, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
I know within the last 4-5 years I asked a stater at a track meet (S&W Model 29) if he needed a special license. He said no. The .44 was much more impressive than the wimpy .38 starter pistols.
Now that bespeaks a certain amount of style and wit - outstanding! So long as he said "on your mark, get set ......" and not "ready, aim ......."

Last edited by dfletcher; 10-08-2010 at 8:12 PM..
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Old 10-08-2010, 9:55 AM
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Halloween and guns are not good things to mix.

Blanks just up the risk factor even more.

UOC with an inert round is stupid, I wouldn't even do it with something like an A-Zoom snap cap although you would be able to talk your way out of a loaded weapon charge easier with one of them.

"Cute" ideas with guns are usually just bad ideas.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santacruzstefan View Post
I called the sheriffs dept once and asked them is a gun loaded with blanks would be considered loaded. He said he would check it out, and call me back. 20 minutes later he did, and said after looking in the PC, and talking to some other deputies, the answer was no, it would not be loaded, since a blank cartridge doesn't fire a projectile. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't get hassled for it.
The fact that he had to talk to other deputies indicated that he wasn't sure, so it stands to reason that an officer on the street would likely be equally unsure, but rather than spending 20 minutes calling other deputies, he's probably going to make the arrest and let the DA decide.

BUT... WRT discharge, as I mentioned before:
Quote:
The term firearm includes rifles, shotguns, revolvers, pistols, or any other device
designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile is expelled by the force of any
explosion or other form of combustion. The term firearm includes the frame or receiver
of any such weapon. (Penal Code § 12001.)

For the purposes of sections 12025 and 12031, the term firearm also includes any rocket,
rocket propelled projectile launcher, or similar device containing any explosive or
incendiary material whether or not the device is designed for emergency or distress
signaling purposes. (Penal Code § 12001.)
The fact that the gun is loaded with blanks does not change the fact that it was " designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile is expelled by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion".

If you are in an area where shooting is prohibited (incorporated city, proximity to buildings/roads/dwellings, etc...), then discharge of a blank would still be considered discharge of a firearm.


Dummy rounds?
That's still an area that I wouldn't touch. Perhaps technically legal... but UOC is still on the ragged edge of possibly being arrested, having anything in the gun other than an empty magazine is just asking to be taken for a ride downtown. I think if you have a mag loaded with dummy rounds, you can expect the officer to completely empty the mag to verify that there isn't a live round in there (you could easily paint a live round to match your dummies)... and maybe even attempt to pry the tips off to confirm they are not live.

All around? Anything in the magwell or chamber other than air and an empty magazine = Bad Idea.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by wash View Post
"Cute" ideas with guns are usually just bad ideas.
^^^^^^^ This.

It is a tool.
It is not a toy, it is not a prop, it is not a fashion accessory, and it is not a part of a costume.

Go buy a cap gun if you want a noisemaker to go with your costume.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Can one legally open carry a handgun loaded with blanks? With Halloween coming I'm sorta curious. I suspect that blaNks are no allowed in any gun that is open carried but I do wonder. And yes, I am aware that blanks can be dangerous for a number of reasons...
FAIL... the make believe and airsoft forum this isn't.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BoxesOfLiberty View Post
This post is brought to you by the letter alcohol.
Had me laughing out loud. Sadly, I suspect he was fully sober when contemplating such a thing.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
The EMT's were not able to stop the bleeding from the 19 bullet holes in your torso, you were pronounced DEAD ON ARRIVAL by the E.R. Doctor.
That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? With the average proficiency in police shoot outs that would involve over 100 shots fired. Maybe 6 holes in the body.
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:51 AM
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This post is brought to you by the letter alcohol.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
Had me laughing out loud. Sadly, I suspect he was fully sober when contemplating such a thing.
me too, man... me too.
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  #37  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
^^^^^^^ This.

It is a tool.
It is not a toy, it is not a prop, it is not a fashion accessory, and it is not a part of a costume.

Go buy a cap gun if you want a noisemaker to go with your costume.




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  #38  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:55 AM
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Like many of his other postings, epic fail. People like this are what makes some people doubt the wisdom of "shall issue."
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  #39  
Old 10-08-2010, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by timdps, et al. View Post
Not sure I buy that one and would really want to verify it.
Don't get me wrong folks, I still think its a bad idea. I'm just saying according to the SC country sheriffs dept. its legal. Of course, when I asked, it was really just on a whim (I often call the police/ sheriff when I get weird legal questions; they get a kick out of it, I think) and the deputy sounded a bit suspicious, asking me why I wanted to know, probably thinking I was gonna rob a bank or something. Something could always get lodged in the barrel, and then when you fire it during the party or whatever, it would become a projectile. This is the same way Brandon Lee died.
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Old 10-08-2010, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
No.

Discharge of blanks would also be illegal.


A good attorney MIGHT be able to get you off, since the blank doesn't actually fire a projectile, but it would be a long, uphill battle, since the law prohibits "discharge of a firearm", and the definition of firearm includes the clause "designed to fire a projectile", thus, even though the cartridge is a blank, it would still be discharging a firearm.
I would disagree with the fact that a blank doesn't discharge a projectile. The sealant at the end of the case CAN be projected and can cause damage.

It is unlikely to be a lethal weapon, but there is still possibility for injury. Do you know that there is nothing in your barrel that can be propelled AS a projectile by the "blank"? Could the wad in the blank be propelled such that it causes serious or fatal injury?

Look at these two purported cases of death by blank: (from wiki-so take with a grain of salt)

In general, deaths or injuries from blanks occur when blanks are fired by people who are unaware of their destructive capabilities. Actors in particular are at serious risk of injury from blank cartridges used on movie sets. Several famous actors have been killed in such mishaps:

* Brandon Lee was killed when a gun containing a squib load (a bullet accidentally stuck in the barrel) was fired with a blank cartridge while filming a scene, which propelled the lodged bullet down the barrel. As reported in the investigation and court records, when blanks were loaded into the gun by someone other than the firearms expert, the bullet left in the barrel by the squib shot was propelled out of the barrel on the first shot.[citation needed]
* Jon-Erik Hexum was killed when he placed a blank-loaded .44 Magnum to his head and pulled the trigger—he did not realize the blanks had sufficient force to push the wad from the blank through his skull, sending bone fragments deep into his brain.[4]
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