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  #1  
Old 08-22-2010, 9:17 AM
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Default So, how did this happen?

I just want to get an idea what happen, and what I can learn from this.



The shotgun: This is a Remington 11-87 that I purchased 2nd hand about 6 months ago. My intent was to use this for 3-gun. I would have loved to get a Benelli, but I couldn't afford to spend 1k.

This shotgun was set up for the open class, the barrel was ported, reddot, speed ramp. I took it all off and was left with the ported barrel as my last thing to replace to be officially tactical class. I was using a thin-wall extended MOD choke. This is the choke that was what the seller used, so I kept it on.

Since I bought it, I have used it in 4 3-gun matches without any issue. I was using Federal Law Enforcement, Reduced Recoil Slugs. So about 50-80 rds of these slugs have been through this barrel since I have been using it.

Now to the problem:
I was at a 3-gun "class" yesterday and we were sighting in our shotguns with slugs. I was up first. My 25 yard shot was good. Then I moved to 50. My 2nd was near center, but my 3rd and 4th shot were way off paper. "What the hell?"

Well, then we looked at the barrel. I had no idea where the choke flew off. I have heard of loose chokes shooting off, but my barrel exploding?

Is there something I did wrong? I wasn't using any new ammo, the same choke.

Luckily, I have another barrel, it has ribs instead of the rifle sights. I wouldn't have cared, but I just spent $80 on fiber-optic sights. Oh well, at least no one got hurt.



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  #2  
Old 08-22-2010, 9:40 AM
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I dont know the dia. of the slugs or that choke, but it looks like it simply was too tight of a fit.
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2010, 9:50 AM
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Looks like a build up of lead behind the the choke and it could only take so much.
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2010, 10:08 AM
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i thought you only use extended MOD choke for skeet?
i only use a cylinder or improved cylinder tube for rifled slugs and a rifled choke tube designed to spin the slug like a sabot slugs.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2010, 10:32 AM
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SJ gangue has a good point. I have been told that choke tubes are OK for small shot sizes. they are not OK for slugs. Knowing how this works will make those statements make sense. So here is what I think happened.

A slug is slightly compressed at the muzzle to stabilize it, if not then it would wobble out the barrel. This is why the fixed modified choke is the best for shooting slugs out of a smooth bore barrel.

A threaded tube gets little to no pressure with any of the shot sizes being fired but gets a lot of pressure when it is a rifled slug. If there is any residue behind the tube like SJ gunguy said and the slug is getting compressed, well, something has to give and it did.

I do not use any threaded choke tubes in any of my weapons. I sell barrels with the Rem Choke tubes as these are wanted out there but only recommend them for buckshot.

I also noticed the barrel is ported. I would never recommend this for a gas operated 11-87. The cycling of the weapons is determined by the length of the barrel and size of the gas orifices and to port the barrel simply lets gas escape before it should. This makes me wonder who would have done that to that barrel.

Remington does not agree with the slugs and threaded barrel for slugs as they make an 11-87 21" Deer barrel that is threaded for Rem Chokes and even comes with a rifled choke tube. So I am going against the tide on this one.

A guy who could look at your picture and tell you exactly what happened is Guncat over on the ar15 shotgun forum. He is the barrel guy and knows his stuff. PM me if you want his e-mail address.
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2010, 10:35 AM
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To much choke for slugs.A fixed barrel in mod. choke is heavier then a fixed choke tube.Imp. cyl is the best for slugs.Take a good pipe cutter and cut it down to legal length and use it for HD.
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  #7  
Old 08-22-2010, 11:11 AM
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Pezhead is correct about the mod choke in a fixed barrel. Problem is that this is an 11-87 barrel and I am guessing it was a 21" barrel because if it was a 18.5" and it was ported he would have had some issues due to the gas size on the two gas orifices. Since it is ported cutting it down and even changing the gas orifices openings would most likely not work. This barrel is most likely FUBAR. Plus he would have to cut behind the threads and remove the front ramp and getting another on is hit and miss. the amount of heat required to get it off of there and install another could do more damage. Can't think of any way this barrel can be used again. Like the OP said, a learning expirience. And what I think could be learned from this is to get an 18.5" 11-87P rifle sight barrel that is made for shooting heavy loads like buckshot and slugs. They only make one in I/C but that would be fine for slugs or 00.
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2010, 1:22 PM
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I would tend to believe that the modified choke was the culprit, although some might use them, they're not recommended for slug guns. That said, I did a search and this is what I got. Whatever may have caused the barrel to split, you can be sure that ultimately it was because of too much pressure by some sort of obstruction, possibly a shot cup or sabot(slug) cup not fully passing the loose choke tube and out the barrel.

I'm just glad there were no injuries and I'm sure you are too!

Is it safe to shoot a slug in a shotgun that has a screw-in choke?

Question: Is it safe to shoot a slug in a shotgun that has a screw-in choke?

Answer: The answer depends on the choke tube that's screwed into the barrel. You can get rifled choke tubes designed to spin the slug (to be used with sabot slugs), or you can just use a cylinder or improved cylinder tube (for rifled slugs).
It's perfectly safe to do with a shotgun that's in good repair, with proper ammo for that gun's chamber length. I wouldn't want to shoot many slugs through a tighter choke, but some modified chokes will do okay with slugs.

The tighter you go, the more pressure there is on the barrel and action, and the more stress is placed on the muzzle, which is thinner than the rest of the barrel anyhow... and this is especially true of newer guns, since their muzzles are threaded for choke tubes (the threading process removes metal from the barrel).

But with the right choke (rifled, cylinder, improved cylinder, or possibly modified) screwed or built into the gun, no problem.

Last edited by hattles; 08-22-2010 at 1:25 PM..
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2010, 2:14 PM
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Use an IC choke if you're shooting slugs.
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  #10  
Old 08-22-2010, 2:32 PM
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Have to agree with the diagnosis of too much choke. I've read elsewhere that if using smooth choke tubes and rifled slugs, that no greater than IC should be used. Lead buildup may also be somewhat at fault as well, but you'll never know at this point.
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  #11  
Old 08-22-2010, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
I dont know the dia. of the slugs or that choke, but it looks like it simply was too tight of a fit.
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Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
I dont know the dia. of the slugs or that choke, but it looks like it simply was too tight of a fit.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2010, 4:09 PM
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Default So, how did this happen?

It all makes sense. I spoke with the individual for whom I bought the gun from. He agreed that it was probably the MOD choke, for I should have been using IC. (However, since I was new to the whole shotgun/choke thing at purchase, I asked about which to use and I swore he said that the MOD is ok for slugs).

Regardless, defiantly a good lessen learned with nobody getting hurt. It looks like I will not be using the tighter chokes.

In response to the ported barrel, again the previous owner had this shotgun set up for "Open" class competitive 3gun and had it tuned up to have as little recoil as possible. I will not repeat this modification on my new barrel.

Thanks for all the input!
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2010, 8:04 PM
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A modified choke is fine for shooting slugs.

The chokes in this gun came real close to the end of the ports if not touching the ports. This was a barrel that somebody had "worked" not a factory setup at all. Since Quig had been shooting this gun in matches and had no problems then there is something else going on.

Quig when did you have the front site installed? I ment to ask but I forgot. The choke might have shot loose, lead build up from the ports too close to the choke. Quig shot the rest of the day with a mod choke in the shotgun he was using.

Unless the shotgun manufacturer or the slug manufacturer says not to be used in xxx or not to be used with xxx you can shoot anything you want out of it.

There are restrictions on chokes and steel shot. It tells you this right on the choke and in some manuals. I've never seen or read anything in owners manuals about choke restrictions and slugs. It would stand to reason there would something on the choke or in the manual on the choke size and slug shooting.

I've watched many a shooter run slugs out of a full choke to think there is a problem.

In this day of everybody is looking for a payday suing somebody and gun manufacturers an easy target don't you think there would be bold print telling you not to do something?
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Last edited by randy; 08-22-2010 at 8:18 PM..
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2010, 8:11 PM
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Default So, how did this happen?

I don't know about the front sight. It was on at purchase, I thought it was factory.

Also, the choke was defiantly not loose, I tighten it prior to coming to the class. However, in my research, it says not to "overtighten". May this be the culprit. Did I overtighten?
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Old 08-22-2010, 8:21 PM
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No I don't believe that was the problem. I think a better thought would be the proximity of the ports to the end of the choke tube. If you bring the barrel I'll take it to a gun smith friend and have him look at it.

If I can be of any help getting your gun to run shoot me a PM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 8:26 PM
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Other than your shotgun how did you like the class?
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2010, 7:46 AM
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The shotgun issue was a bit of a bummer, but otherwise, the class was good. I know what I need to work on. I feel much better about shotgun loading and how to practice.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2010, 12:02 AM
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You problem is with the barrel and choke tube. You mentioned the barrel was set up with thin walls, I am assuming from Briley. If I am not mistaken the thinwalls are not set up to shoot slugs, especially with a mod choke. Other factors might have contributed ... Did the barrel have other work done ??? Like lenghten forcing cone, backboring. Because all that and the tight choke/slug combo could've caused the blown barrel.
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2010, 10:08 PM
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Yes the barrel had pretty much all the mods. Lengthen forcing cone and all. I think the life of the barrel was at it's end.

At the very least, my new barrel will not be touched, stock all the way. I was anticipating on opening the gas ports to cycle lighter loads, but to my surprise, all I had to do was put an extra O-ring, and all the 7.5 game loads cycled without an issue. I am sure my shotgun being older/well broken in, had something to do with this.

Thanks for the input, I'll keep everyone posted if anything else comes up.
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2010, 10:23 PM
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Don't forget to take that extra barrel seal out if you go to shoot a heavy load. Yell if you can't find the barrel you want as I finally got all my back orders of 11-87P barrels in. Only thing is they are designed for heavy loads and your 11-87 will not cycle the light stuff with one of these Police barrels. Of course at the factory armorers course the extra barrel seal was a no no and I have never told anyone to do that. You figured it out on your own.
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