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  #1  
Old 07-25-2010, 2:33 PM
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Default ATI .410 gauge AR-15 upper!

saw this online at marks armory

http://marksarmory.com/52901.html

it is the 410 upper that will go on top of the stadard ar-15 lower.

since my lower is already cal legal with the bullet button,would this be legal???

just curious because i am considering another build and a 410 vs 308 vs. 50 beowolf is in my mind......
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2010, 2:38 PM
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Yes that fits on a standard AR lower. Yes you still have to follow all CA laws, mag lock and a fixed stock.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2010, 3:15 PM
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a fixed stock????????
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2010, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by stitchnicklas View Post
a fixed stock????????
A special stock that makes it almost impossible to hit what you're aiming at. Those who encounter them often proclaim, "This stock is fixed!" Illegal in shooting competitions.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2010, 3:45 PM
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A fixed stock means you cannot have a collapsible or telescopic stock. An A2 or a pinned Coll/Tele would work also.
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2010, 4:14 PM
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What is the quality on these like, anyone know. The local shop has one of these, and a dedicated 22 upper from ati also, and I was contemplating.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2010, 4:21 PM
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Chris, There is a vid on youtube on these. I think Federals won't feed coz its too long, the Winchester AA fed pretty good. Look for the vid pretty good stuff.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2010, 4:52 PM
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Default Fixed stock?

At the risk of hijacking the thread, if you have a fixed magazine (a magazine needing a tool to remove as per DoJ) you can have all the other "bad black rifle" features. including a collapsable or folding stock, flash hider and pistol grips.

Okay what's the attraction to a .410 AR? Just something different? Is the barrel rifled? How about those Crossbow top ends for the AR lowers? Or the 5.7 conversions that dumps the casing out the magwell? Those look cool, but here in CA. they can only have 10 rounds in them....

Now I want an AR-10! kind of like the new military SR-25 Won't need a bolt gun after that build. But I'll have to sell the Remington 700 and the Styer SSG both to afford it...
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2010, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MossbergMan View Post
At the risk of hijacking the thread, if you have a fixed magazine (a magazine needing a tool to remove as per DoJ) you can have all the other "bad black rifle" features. including a collapsable or folding stock, flash hider and pistol grips.

Okay what's the attraction to a .410 AR? Just something different? Is the barrel rifled? How about those Crossbow top ends for the AR lowers? Or the 5.7 conversions that dumps the casing out the magwell? Those look cool, but here in CA. they can only have 10 rounds in them....

Now I want an AR-10! kind of like the new military SR-25 Won't need a bolt gun after that build. But I'll have to sell the Remington 700 and the Styer SSG both to afford it...
The rules are different when it's a shotgun
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:22 PM
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You are wrong. Centerfire rules are different than shotgun rules and this is a shotgun. Perhaps you should look over PC 12276.1 again. Giving that advice about a semi automatic shotgun would put someone in big trouble, no the law before you give such advice.

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Originally Posted by MossbergMan View Post
At the risk of hijacking the thread, if you have a fixed magazine (a magazine needing a tool to remove as per DoJ) you can have all the other "bad black rifle" features. including a collapsable or folding stock, flash hider and pistol grips.
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:32 PM
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.410 ammo cost too much.
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh3239 View Post
You are wrong. Centerfire rules are different than shotgun rules and this is a shotgun. Perhaps you should look over PC 12276.1 again. Giving that advice about a semi automatic shotgun would put someone in big trouble, no the law before you give such advice.
Yeap ... Semiautos with a fixed magazine are different !!! Go to the shotgun flowchart ...
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MossbergMan View Post
At the risk of hijacking the thread, if you have a fixed magazine (a magazine needing a tool to remove as per DoJ) you can have all the other "bad black rifle" features. including a collapsable or folding stock, flash hider and pistol grips.
Not for a semi-automatic shotgun.

It may have EITHER a telescoping/folding buttstock OR a Pistol grip.... it cannot have both.
Additionally, there is no such thing as a "featureless" semi-automatic shotgun. If it is semi-auto, it MUST have a fixed magazine.
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Old 07-25-2010, 11:25 PM
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for the cost of the upper you could get a saiga 12 gauge.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:59 PM
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Out of curiosity, if you mounted that upper on a reg'd AR lower, does it stopped being a reg'd rifle and become an un-reg'd AW shotgun or does the fact that it's registered at all cover it? Something like this has never even occurred to me before.
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2010, 12:52 AM
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Out of curiosity, if you mounted that upper on a reg'd AR lower, does it stopped being a reg'd rifle and become an un-reg'd AW shotgun or does the fact that it's registered at all cover it? Something like this has never even occurred to me before.
It's still a RAW no matter what caliber it is in.
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2011, 1:43 PM
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Anyone know of a source for the 15rd mags ?

(15 round mags are CA legal per shotgun flow chart)

ATI doesn't return emails or phone calls...
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2011, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Anyone know of a source for the 15rd mags ?

(15 round mags are CA legal per shotgun flow chart)

ATI doesn't return emails or phone calls...
Are you a LEO or a CA FFL dealer with a large capacity magazine permit?

If not how would you legally acquire the large capacity magazines?
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Old 03-05-2011, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Are you a LEO or a CA FFL dealer with a large capacity magazine permit?

If not how would you legally acquire the large capacity magazines?
Through Gene once he gets his ducks in a row. lol.
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2011, 3:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novabrian View Post
.410 ammo cost too much.
Reload! .410 costs me about 1/2 of what it does to reload 12g.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davedog01 View Post
for the cost of the upper you could get a saiga 12 gauge.
Who cares? They are two different things. I like .410s and would probably buy a Saiga .410 before I bought a Saiga 12. But, I have also been intrigued with .410 uppers for years. I just haven't stepped up and bought one because, I alreay own 5 .410s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Anyone know of a source for the 15rd mags ?

(15 round mags are CA legal per shotgun flow chart)

ATI doesn't return emails or phone calls...
Fixed mags of any size are legal on semi auto shotguns. But, you still have to legally aquire them. If you are not exept from the 10 round mag limit (LEO, possess a high cap permit, etc.), you have not been legally able to get one since 1-1-00.
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  #21  
Old 03-06-2011, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Are you a LEO or a CA FFL dealer with a large capacity magazine permit?

If not how would you legally acquire the large capacity magazines?
Rebuild kits to retro fit my pre-ban 20 and 30rd mags. I measured the 5rd .410 mag and guesstimated my 30rd 1998 mags should be 18rounders when filled with .410 loads.

Not sure if they will be able to be loaded that far due to the feed angle with the larger rounds - Just need a few more correct followers...
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:50 PM
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I have one of these uppers. They are VERY sensitive to what ammo to use. You can not use just any 2.75 ammo. I have found that it uses Remington slugs the best.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by novabrian View Post
.410 ammo cost too much.
this ^^^
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Rebuild kits to retro fit my pre-ban 20 and 30rd mags. I measured the 5rd .410 mag and guesstimated my 30rd 1998 mags should be 18rounders when filled with .410 loads.

Not sure if they will be able to be loaded that far due to the feed angle with the larger rounds - Just need a few more correct followers...
Always interesting to see who had prebans for firearms that never existed until a few years ago.... Prebans alright..

Just remember, that your prebans still have to function correctly for the firearm they were intended for, otherwise you'd be illegally manufacturing hicaps, but then again you knew that.

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Old 03-07-2011, 6:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Always interesting to see who had prebans for firearms that never existed until a few years ago.... Prebans alright..
AR magazines didn't exist until a few years ago?

So my older brother must have used clips when he served in the 70s



That is if a standard AR mag body will feed the .410... not sure that it will.

BTW: That upper is no longer showing.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 03-07-2011 at 6:17 PM..
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Old 03-07-2011, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Always interesting to see who had prebans for firearms that never existed until a few years ago.... Prebans alright..

Just remember, that your prebans still have to function correctly for the firearm they were intended for, otherwise you'd be illegally manufacturing hicaps, but then again you knew that.

Dan
I'm shooting the .410 upper on the same lower I used for my 6.8 - Pretty much all AR based mags will "function" - Just with different followers replaced for different caliber uppers.

These ATI .410 mags are so different - I don't see how anyone could mod an AR mag to work.

Guess I'm gonna have to offer a finders fee to get a few more instead...

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Old 03-07-2011, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBob View Post
I have one of these uppers. They are VERY sensitive to what ammo to use. You can not use just any 2.75 ammo. I have found that it uses Remington slugs the best.
Kool - Which Remingtons are you using?

Have you tried the Federal #4 / 0000 buckshot / Handgun ammo?

( Originally made for the "Judge"... )
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Old 03-07-2011, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
AR magazines didn't exist until a few years ago?

So my older brother must have used clips when he served in the 70s



That is if a standard AR mag body will feed the .410... not sure that it will.

BTW: That upper is no longer showing.
If you're gonna quote me, please do so in the context that it was written. I understand that AR mags have been around, but the ATI product came to market, maybe last year? And I'd imagine they have a proprietary magazine for the .410 shotgun round as the .410 isn't too dimensionally similar to 5.56x45, but then again, I may be wrong.

And again, if you modify your preban ar15 magazine and it doesn't function to feed the round it was intended for, then you've manufactured a hicap. Remember before all the "rebuild" kits were available and some people were attempting to use 40cal mags to get an extra 2 or 3 rounds of 9mm at the range and the warnings the community would give about that?

Again, yes the laws suck, but please for the love of all things shiney that go boom, let's not advocate illegal activities.

As for the upper itself (cause I hate to thread jack) I think it's a freaking neat idea, if only because it functions on the regular AR lower and the OO buck that the .410 uses is 3 pellets of buck... But as far the two styles they have, I prefer the one with the file length hand guards, it looks a bit less goofy than the "m4" carbine hand guards with the ridiculously long barrel... but then again, to each his own.

Dan
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Old 03-07-2011, 8:56 PM
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And to quote the Calguns wiki page reference "rebuilds"

"The general rules regarding magazine repair appear to be that as long as one ends up with the same number of legally possessed large-capacity magazines, has a plausible path of replacement parts from the original possessed large-capacity magazine to the repaired magazine, and the magazine continues to work in the firearm it was originally designed to operate in, one would not be violating the law.

There are no restrictions on modifying a legally possessed large-capacity magazine to work in another firearm as long as the magazine continues to operate in the firearm it was originally designed for."

Dan
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Old 03-07-2011, 8:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
If you're gonna quote me, please do so in the context that it was written. I understand that AR mags have been around, but the ATI product came to market, maybe last year? And I'd imagine they have a proprietary magazine for the .410 shotgun round as the .410 isn't too dimensionally similar to 5.56x45, but then again, I may be wrong.
Which is why I included the last line about standard AR bodies maybe being able to feed the .410
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 03-07-2011, 9:38 PM
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The link to the 410 upper is no longer valid....
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Old 03-07-2011, 9:38 PM
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ive got one, actually been trying to sell it. built it and then realized how expensive ammo was, i dont reload so its just wasnt what i was looking for.

i have 2 or 3 rebuild kits, 25 all brass hulls..


yhm lower, fixed a2 stock, radlock.

if you pay my asking price of 1k, ill give you the choice of the YHM lower, or ill swap it out for a calguns low, state or bear rollmark, your choice.

upper, rebuilds, brass for 650 by itself.







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Old 03-07-2011, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Kool - Which Remingtons are you using?

Have you tried the Federal #4 / 0000 buckshot / Handgun ammo?

( Originally made for the "Judge"... )

Hey there Danny:
I didn't try any Federal as I couldn't locate any before I took it out. I do know that no Winchester ammo is recommended. I used the Remington 2.5" 1/5 oz. slugs and Nitro Sporting Clay #8 shot.

What causes the problems is the total length of the shot hulls. Some are just too long to eject. Even the Nitro sporting Clays which is recomended I had some have FTE.

I did make an error in my first post. I stated that is uses 2.75". ammo which should have been 2.5" ammo

In this photo, I was shooting Remington Nitro Sporting Clays with #8 shot. Some of the spread was outside the target. I would say that this would be a good snake, rabbit or squirrel patterns out to just around 25 yds maybe a little more. Total round count was 10.




Here is a link to some more information on the ATI 410 upper
http://www.gunblast.com/ATI-T14.htm
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

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  #34  
Old 03-07-2011, 9:43 PM
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http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=971002 Says it is a discontinued product
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Old 03-07-2011, 9:45 PM
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blah didint realize this was a necro thread

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Old 03-07-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBob View Post
Hey there Danny:
I didn't try any Federal as I couldn't locate any before I took it out. I do know that no Winchester ammo is recommended. I used the Remington 2.5" 1/5 oz. slugs and Nitro Sporting Clay #8 shot.

What causes the problems is the total length of the shot hulls. Some are just too long to eject. Even the Nitro sporting Clays which is recomended I had some have FTE.

I did make an error in my first post. I stated that is uses 2.75". ammo which should have been 2.5" ammo

In this photo, I was shooting Remington Nitro Sporting Clays with #8 shot. Some of the spread was outside the target. I would say that this would be a good snake, rabbit or squirrel patterns out to just around 25 yds maybe a little more. Total round count was 10.



Here is a link to some more information on the ATI 410 upper
http://www.gunblast.com/ATI-T14.htm
I've got mine together - And Cope's has the proprietary ATI slugs for $13 per 25rd box.

That's the review which convinced me to go ahead and build it...
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Last edited by DannyInSoCal; 03-07-2011 at 10:17 PM..
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