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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #641  
Old 07-21-2010, 11:43 AM
harbinger007 harbinger007 is offline
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I wonder how many other folks Murphy has been out to get. The fact that while on his way to the call that he says he's going to find something to charge him with makes it sound as if he already knew Mr. Hart and was out get him. I hope there is finally an investigation into this and others come forward.
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  #642  
Old 07-21-2010, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kynoch View Post
Sweet!

Don't let Mr. Hart take his foot off the Sheriff Office's throat though...
Seriously, this is probably their attempt at 'rectifying' the situation. Unfortunately for Darren Murphy and the other deputies they committed some atrocities against the Constitution and Matt Hart. There should be extremely harsh punishment for LEO who violate the constitution.

To quote Uncle Ben -With great power comes great responsibility.

Yes their job is dangerous and hard. But they have authority that regular citizens do not. With that authority should come extreme responsibility for their actions, especially in regards to the constitution, which they are sworn to uphold.
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  #643  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:00 PM
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I think Matt Hart should sue the SLOSD.

The goal of the deputies should be to deescalate the situation. Instead, they blew it out of proportion.

They could have told the guy to walk over to the fence and then asked him if he was armed. Then told him to cool it on the target firing because his neighbors were complaining.

They would have also run him through NCIC but he has no wants or warrants anyway.

Another problem is the "brandishing a weapon" charge. IMHO, they took Matt's actions totally out of context.

Cops need to quit assuming that citizens with a firearm are committing a crime.
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  #644  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
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I need to clarify something.

I don't think that Matt Hart should sue individual cops.

I am not in favor of destroying the financial lives of a few individuals.

The compartmentalization and rationalization of the US Constitution is not something that starts with the individual. IMHO, this attitude starts at the department level with upper management at the SLOSD.

I don't doubt that these cops have integrity in their personal lives but in their jobs, they are compartmentalizing. Compartmentalizing is the opposite of integrity as integrity comes from the Latin word integer and an integer is a whole number and means wholeness thus integrity doesn't just mean to be honest and fulfill expectations, it means to do it in every part of your life. In addition, people with integrity must be willing to take risks (chance of harm or personal loss) when they see something that is against their own principles, values or morals.

Make no mistake, the attitude of these deputies came from the top down.

Cops are also compartmentalizing their jobs when writing tickets to generate revenue. The goal of law enforcement should be public safety and preservation of life yet cops are now pulling people over just so that the city/county/state gets the revenue from the ticket. Disgusting...
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  #645  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by martialcomp View Post
I need to clarify something.

I don't think that Matt Hart should sue individual cops.

I am not in favor of destroying the financial lives of a few individuals.
So its ok to sue the S.O. and take taxpayers money? But don't sue an individual officer over civil rights violations, albeit, every officer in the S.O. does not violate civil rights. I don't care what your title is. If you screw up, you PERSONALLY should be held responsible for your own actions. If Officers are held personally accountable for their negligence of the law, then they might think twice before violating someones rights. As a firefighter paramedic, if I screw up and found myself negligent in a death of a patient. Do you think I personally would not get sued? My financial life would be ruined and I accept that fact of my career, if I screw up. Hence why I follow my laws to the T and back everything up with thorough documentation. (not "Flowery" )
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  #646  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by martialcomp View Post
I need to clarify something.

I don't think that Matt Hart should sue individual cops.

I am not in favor of destroying the financial lives of a few individuals.

The compartmentalization and rationalization of the US Constitution is not something that starts with the individual. IMHO, this attitude starts at the department level with upper management at the SLOSD.

I don't doubt that these cops have integrity in their personal lives but in their jobs, they are compartmentalizing. Compartmentalizing is the opposite of integrity as integrity comes from the Latin word integer and an integer is a whole number and means wholeness thus integrity doesn't just mean to be honest and fulfill expectations, it means to do it in every part of your life. In addition, people with integrity must be willing to take risks (chance of harm or personal loss) when they see something that is against their own principles, values or morals.

Make no mistake, the attitude of these deputies came from the top down.

Cops are also compartmentalizing their jobs when writing tickets to generate revenue. The goal of law enforcement should be public safety and preservation of life yet cops are now pulling people over just so that the city/county/state gets the revenue from the ticket. Disgusting...
I disagree, I think individuals should be sued so lessons can be learned. When a citizen sues an agency, it's the tax payers that end up footing the bill. Lessons cannot be learned unless it affects them personally. These officers are all POST certified, and part of that learning process involves understanding and upholding the Constitution.

They understand what they are doing is wrong, evidenced by the fact at the end of the video they try to put together a case against Mr. Hart to justify their illegal search and seizure of property.

They are acting this way because history has taught them that they will not be punished, in fact, as Bill Weise has said, the wagons will circle them and they will be protected by the same agency that is empowered by us to uphold the law.
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  #647  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
So even if they were well-intentioned in some fashion (I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt) I think the department leadership has to be fired along with the 4 directly involved in the incident.
Ah, that makes sense. Initially it seemed like you were saying the deputies were fine and shouldn't be held accountable because the blame should go on up to the leadership. Yes, both the officers on the ground and the leadership that approved all this should lose their badges.

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If you use FireFox as your browser and you want to save online videos to your own computer - you need to get Download Helper (an add on). Works nicely.
That one works really well, more thumbs up for the Download Helper extension.
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  #648  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:38 PM
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On calcoastnews.com, a visitor responded that a little birdie told him that Murohy resigned a week befor this video came out. WRONG!!!! I called the Sheriff's Templeton office this morning and asked for Deputy Murphy. I was told that he is working graveyard shift that starts at 9 pm. He is on his days off right now and will return on Saturday. There have also been reports that he has moved out of the area. WRONG!!!

Last edited by GTKrockeTT; 07-21-2010 at 12:53 PM.. Reason: removing personal info
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  #649  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:40 PM
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According to the video, it appears that the LEO's were deliberately violating rights and then effectively lying or twisting the facts in order to justify what they clearly knew to be illegal acts.

The only reason to be reluctant to sue them for violation of his rights is if you don't think you're going to win. The problem may be systemic and due to bad leadership - but they are also individually responsible for their actions and must be held accountable.
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  #650  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by blb24 View Post
On calcoastnews.com, a visitor responded that a little birdie told him that Murohy resigned a week befor this video came out. WRONG!!!! I called the Sheriff's Templeton office this morning and asked for Deputy Murphy. I was told that he is working graveyard shift that starts at 9 pm. He is on his days off right now and will return on Saturday. There have also been reports that he has moved out of the area. WRONG!!!
.
.
.
Would you do me a favor and remove the address information? You and CalGuns do not need to be held responsible if someone who reads this is a bit unhinged and uses that info to go after the guy.
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  #651  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by blb24 View Post
On calcoastnews.com, a visitor responded that a little birdie told him that Murohy resigned a week befor this video came out. WRONG!!!! I called the Sheriff's Templeton office this morning and asked for Deputy Murphy. I was told that he is working graveyard shift that starts at 9 pm. He is on his days off right now and will return on Saturday. There have also been reports that he has moved out of the area. WRONG!!!
Good grief -- instead of being a building contractor, plumber or electrician like so many other LEOs and firefighters "on the side" this jerk is a lawyer!

Be very afraid!

Last edited by GTKrockeTT; 07-21-2010 at 12:53 PM.. Reason: removing personal info
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  #652  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by martialcomp View Post
I don't think that Matt Hart should sue individual cops.

I am not in favor of destroying the financial lives of a few individuals.
..

WRONG!!! Was the individual life of Mr. Hart damaged emotionally, financially and criminally? Damn right it was.

The Elected Sheriff was not there telling these guys to take the specific actrions they did. They made that choice on their own. They knew it was wrong and then chose to engage in a conspiracy to cover it up. They knew they were doing something wrong which makes them wholly responsible for the consequences of their actions. THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED AND LEFT DESTITUTE!

But as stated this also points to a culture of corruption in the Dept. that needs to be addressed as well.
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  #653  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
Would you do me a favor and remove the address information? You and CalGuns do not need to be held responsible if someone who reads this is a bit unhinged and uses that info to go after the guy.
I didn't use the exact address. The sheriff and police departments use this exact style in police logs all the time, and those are reported in county papers. In fact if someone was trying to get the exact address it would not be hard at all. I did it!

Last edited by blb24; 07-21-2010 at 12:55 PM.. Reason: Further comment.
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  #654  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by blb24 View Post
On calcoastnews.com, a visitor responded that a little birdie told him that Murohy resigned a week befor this video came out. WRONG!!!! I called the Sheriff's Templeton office this morning and asked for Deputy Murphy. I was told that he is working graveyard shift that starts at 9 pm. He is on his days off right now and will return on Saturday. There have also been reports that he has moved out of the area. WRONG!!! He lives in the 4800 block of Jardine Rd in Paso Robles Ca.
Good to know. Given that Murphy's still aloof, I mean afoot, maybe some of you guys in the Central Coast area could benefit from a few of Jason Davis's business card:


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  #655  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
Would you do me a favor and remove the address information? You and CalGuns do not need to be held responsible if someone who reads this is a bit unhinged and uses that info to go after the guy.
If Murphy's not being held responsible I don't see why anyone else should have to worry. Besides, he's a real tough guy, we all saw that on the video.
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  #656  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:01 PM
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Originally Posted by martialcomp View Post
They could have told the guy to walk over to the fence and then asked him if he was armed. Then told him to cool it on the target firing because his neighbors were complaining.

Or better yet....talked to him and once they realizes he was just target shooting in a place it's legal to shoot just told him "Well we just wanted to let you know that your neighbors complained. We can't tell you to stop, but you might wanna let your neighbors know what's going on so they dont freak out again in the future. And we will stop by and let them know we talked to you and that what you are doing is completely legal. Sorry to bother you, be safe and have a nice day."


Would that have been so hard? But see Murphy couldn't do that because he'd already made up his mind he was gonna jack somebody up before he even got there. Which in court....that alone could likely fry his whole case. A warrentless arrest must be made up of clearly articulateble set of facts to support probable cause the a crime did/is about to/has taken place. That would mean you'd have to actually gather some facts first before deciding to make an arrest. Mr. Murphy decided to arrest before he even got there. So upon arrival he operated under the mindset that "This guy is already a criminal and I'm going to arrest him" which justified in his mind everything he did after that. Then after the fact went "Oh Shet! I need some fact to go along with this search and arrest report....what would sound good? Oh..I know...flowery language stating exigent circumstances."

I like the statement of the officer in the car with Hart at the end of the 2nd video where he says something to the effect of "If you'd just done what we told you we would have checked things out and been on our way." It was almost like he was telling him the he was being screwed over for being "in contempt of COP" and admitting he knew the Hart didn't really do anything wrong.

Curious....has anyone gotten a copy of the actual incident/arrest report? I'd really love to read the reasoning they used for needing to search the guys safe.
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  #657  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
If Murphy's not being held responsible I don't see why anyone else should have to worry. Besides, he's a real tough guy, we all saw that on the video.

except someone needs to teach that jackwad and his buddies how to properly sling a rifle when you're climbing over a fence. Saw that on the video too.
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  #658  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:08 PM
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except someone needs to teach that jackwad and his buddies how to properly sling a rifle when you're climbing over a fence. Saw that on the video too.
Thank God he didn't cause an accidental discharge with that stupid stunt. Think it's obvious how THAT would have ended for Mr. Hart.
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  #659  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:09 PM
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Thank God he didn't cause an accidental discharge with that stupid stunt. Think it's obvious how THAT would have ended for Mr. Hart.
Haha, I was thinking the same thing. I'd have gotten a SSG's boot up my rear for going over a fence like that.
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  #660  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:14 PM
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Don't get me wrong, the SLOSD will try to throw their own deputies under the bus and try to say that the incident occurred because of "a few rogue deputies" but the reality is the situation is different.

I am not sure suing the individual deputies will change department policy but suing the department might.

My concern here is to stay away from "Oliver North" syndrome where we make one or two individuals patsies.

As far as taxpayer money, everyone here should be more concerned about the wasted pension benefits given to cops than a puny 2 or 3 million dollar settlement that might be given to Matt Hart.
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  #661  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:15 PM
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We should organize a CGN BBQ / rimfire shoot at Mr. Hart's house if he's willing. Invite and educate the neighbors, media, SO, etc.
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  #662  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:20 PM
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I think people are reading way too much into this without knowing why Matt did what he did. For instance, everyone is speculating as to why he pulled his cell phone out of his pocket. He was tring to call 911 of the FBI. That was his only intention of pulling that phone out. This family has a history with SLOSD. They had a family member that worked in the agency. He left the agency because of crooked cops, Therefore they do NOT trust this agency at all.
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  #663  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:21 PM
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We should organize a CGN BBQ / rimfire shoot at Mr. Hart's house if he's willing. Invite and educate the neighbors, media, SO, etc.
How about a peaceful CGN demonstration in front of the SLO Sheriff office? We might get more media coverage that way.
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  #664  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:26 PM
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Reminds me of Shasta Co. sheriff dept.
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  #665  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by martialcomp View Post
Don't get me wrong, the SLOSD will try to throw their own deputies under the bus and try to say that the incident occurred because of "a few rogue deputies" but the reality is the situation is different.

I am not sure suing the individual deputies will change department policy but suing the department might.

My concern here is to stay away from "Oliver North" syndrome where we make one or two individuals patsies.

As far as taxpayer money, everyone here should be more concerned about the wasted pension benefits given to cops than a puny 2 or 3 million dollar settlement that might be given to Matt Hart.

That's why you sue BOTH the individuals AND the Dept.
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  #666  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:29 PM
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I think people are reading way too much into this without knowing why Matt did what he did. For instance, everyone is speculating as to why he pulled his cell phone out of his pocket. He was tring to call 911 of the FBI. That was his only intention of pulling that phone out. This family has a history with SLOSD. They had a family member that worked in the agency. He left the agency because of crooked cops, Therefore they do NOT trust this agency at all.
BLB, I would love to hear the details of this story. Maybe Matt will do a video in the future on this
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Old 07-21-2010, 1:32 PM
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Haha, I was thinking the same thing. I'd have gotten a SSG's boot up my rear for going over a fence like that.

What I thought was funny was that after they'd taken his keys to open his safe they still kept climbing over the gate. Would it not be likely that the key to the gate would have been on his keyring too? Why not just unlock the frggin' gate?
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  #668  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:33 PM
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I still don't support the suing of individual cops. I think it distracts from the real issue which is that the SLOSD is out of control and is violating the constitutional rights of county citizens.

I want to see departmental change. Truthfully, I wouldn't even care if Matt got nothing except court costs in a settlement as long he wins and it causes the department to change their policy.
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  #669  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:34 PM
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What do you think should be the outcome? Just losing their jobs? I ask as I am personally not sure what I would do to them....you have people on this forum calling for jail time.....I don't know if that's appropriate...but they did try to put an innocent man in prison. If LEO are truly to be held to a higher standard...than jail time just may be appropriate....sure would send a message.


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I need to clarify something.

I don't think that Matt Hart should sue individual cops.

I am not in favor of destroying the financial lives of a few individuals.
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  #670  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:42 PM
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I am personally not sure what I would do to them....you have people on this forum calling for jail time.....I don't know if that's appropriate...but they did try to put an innocent man in prison.
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  #671  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:49 PM
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Or better yet....talked to him and once they realizes he was just target shooting in a place it's legal to shoot just told him "Well we just wanted to let you know that your neighbors complained. We can't tell you to stop, but you might wanna let your neighbors know what's going on so they dont freak out again in the future. And we will stop by and let them know we talked to you and that what you are doing is completely legal. Sorry to bother you, be safe and have a nice day."
That's what the Sheriffs Deputies told our idiot HOA board in my old neighborhood when a landowner started shooting on their property. These city slickers from the Bay Area move into a new neighborhood in the countryside, and immediately start complaining to the Sheriffs Dept. constantly about horses, hikers, and shooting. I tried to tell them that's country living, but then they came after me. But our Sheriff's Dept. did the right thing. They never even stopped and talked to the owner of the adjoining 40 acre lot. They just told the HOA that the shooting is completely legal and they just have to put up with it. That's all the SLO Deputies had to do. Stop by the house of the person complaining and explain to them their neighbor was engaged in a legal activity.
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  #672  
Old 07-21-2010, 1:50 PM
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Perhaps a hybrid solution: After winning the civil rights case and damages, the persons ID'd in the civil case should lose their pensions. The value of those pensions would then be deducted from the whole and the dept pays the rest. Loss of employment and pension monies should be enough monetary penalty for the individuals involved. Jail time should be determined separately. This solution will hit the pocketbooks all around without ruining an individual for life.
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Old 07-21-2010, 1:50 PM
martialcomp martialcomp is offline
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I am not sure Turbo...if the allegations of corruption are true this department needs the CHP and/or FBI to move in and take over law enforcement duties for the county while an investigation is conducted.

As far as law enforcement officers being held to a higher standard, I agree they should be held to a higher standard.

If I were to summarize the last decade, I would say that law enforcement officers in the state of California are creating an adversarial relationship between themselves and law abiding citizens. That is something that needs to change and I don't think putting a few cops in jail will fix the problem. I want kids to look up to cops as role models. I don't want kids and adults fearing law enforcement.

We need a shift back to constitutional rights in California. Leadership needs to be change in some law enforcement agencies and we need retraining of law enforcement officers.
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Old 07-21-2010, 1:54 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
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Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
"Appropriate" might mean that it is ethical and makes sense.

But it can also be thought of in a legal context. So if you will not prevail in a court of law, criminal or civil penalties might be thought of as "inappropriate".

So far as I'm concerned, ethically, those who arrange to imprison those who have done no substantial wrong should themselves be imprisoned.
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Old 07-21-2010, 2:00 PM
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For those wondering if there is creative editing, the reporter has all 5.5 hours of tape unedited. He hasn't posted it all online for potential litigation reasons. They will be made available once the issue is settled or Matt's legal advisors give the clearance.
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Old 07-21-2010, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by martialcomp View Post
I am not sure Turbo...if the allegations of corruption are true this department needs the CHP and/or FBI to move in and take over law enforcement duties for the county while an investigation is conducted.

As far as law enforcement officers being held to a higher standard, I agree they should be held to a higher standard.

If I were to summarize the last decade, I would say that law enforcement officers in the state of California are creating an adversarial relationship between themselves and law abiding citizens. That is something that needs to change and I don't think putting a few cops in jail will fix the problem. I want kids to look up to cops as role models. I don't want kids and adults fearing law enforcement.

We need a shift back to constitutional rights in California. Leadership needs to be change in some law enforcement agencies and we need retraining of law enforcement officers.
I totally agree! What do you think has caused this? Bloated wages/benefits for LEOs which now attract the wrong sort of individual?
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Old 07-21-2010, 2:02 PM
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I am not sure suing the individual deputies will change department policy but suing the department might.
No reason he can't do both.
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  #678  
Old 07-21-2010, 2:04 PM
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I need to clarify something.

I don't think that Matt Hart should sue individual cops.

I am not in favor of destroying the financial lives of a few individuals.
I have the exact opposite reaction, the financial and professional lives of those cops SHOULD be destroyed. Police officers are the ones who are supposed to uphold the constitution and laws of the United States, if they knowingly violate them then the law should come down on them like an anvil in a Wille Coyote cartoon. They should be rendered homeless and have to resort to begging for change from the citizens they once victimized from behind their badge. None of this is for revenge, it's so that other officers who might consider doing something like this know that there will be consequences for their actions. In fact I think sentencing rules should be changed so that a crime committed by an on duty police officer automatically doubles the length of a prison sentence.

Last edited by robcoe; 07-21-2010 at 2:11 PM..
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Old 07-21-2010, 2:05 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
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What do you think should be the outcome? Just losing their jobs? I ask as I am personally not sure what I would do to them....you have people on this forum calling for jail time.....I don't know if that's appropriate...but they did try to put an innocent man in prison. If LEO are truly to be held to a higher standard...than jail time just may be appropriate....sure would send a message.

Let's suppose I held someone at gunpoint which is assault with a deadly weapon, then restrained them that's false imprisonment, and then moved them to a different location that is kidnapping, then ripped keys off their belt which is aggrivated robbery, then entered their home with the intent of committing theft thats buglary, then used the keys to access a safe to steal several firearms that's mutlitple counts of theft of a firearm, then engaged in conspiracy with my buddies to cover it up, that's criminal conspiracy.


Those are all felonies. What do you think should happen to me? Do I think I should get a slap on the wrist cuz mommy and daddy didn't raise me right?


You must remember that Mr. Hart committed no crime, yet was subjected to every single one of the crimes I listed above.....all under color of authourity no less...and that's not even mentioning the violations of his civil rights or their perjury by submitting a falsified report. Yet you think no jail time is justified or required? Why does the fact that they have badges and work for the county make one shred of difference? Abuses of authority by public servants simply MUST be dealt with....and as harshly as the law allows because their crime is not aonly against the individual victim but against the society as a whole who placed their trust in them and granted them the authority to begin with.

The DA who originally charged Mr. Hart should be furious at the deputies for causing him to be part of their conspiracy by having him act on a false report and perjuring themselves. He should be seeking their heads if he had a shred of honor and morality.
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Last edited by Untamed1972; 07-21-2010 at 2:15 PM..
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  #680  
Old 07-21-2010, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
"Appropriate" might mean that it is ethical and makes sense.

But it can also be thought of in a legal context. So if you will not prevail in a court of law, criminal or civil penalties might be thought of as "inappropriate".

So far as I'm concerned, ethically, those who arrange to imprison those who have done no substantial wrong should themselves be imprisoned.
If I'm understanding what you're saying then we agree. The deputies, whether to cover their butts and/or illegal search, conspired (flowery language, embellished charges eg brandishing, resisting arrest) sought to wrongfully imprison Mr. Hart and therefore should face the same penalty.
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