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  #1  
Old 06-29-2010, 9:13 PM
Ahhnother8 Ahhnother8 is offline
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Default AR15 in .223 @ 1000 yards

Does anyone here shoot a .223 at 1000 yards? What combination works best at that distance?
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Old 06-29-2010, 9:30 PM
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Some guy named Lane told me a 80gr SMK and ungodly amounts of N540 works pretty good
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  #3  
Old 06-29-2010, 9:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahhnother8 View Post
Does anyone here shoot a .223 at 1000 yards? What combination works best at that distance?
What combination works best at that distance? 168gr .308, 22" barrel

If it has to be .223, I've messed around a little with an 18" SPR and my Rem 700, you can make hits with 77 or 80gr SMKs... but you're going to be LOBBING them in. Maybe try some real hot handloads, but that doesn't sound like too good an idea.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by slick_711 View Post
What combination works best at that distance? 168gr .308, 22" barrel

If it has to be .223, I've messed around a little with an 18" SPR and my Rem 700, you can make hits with 77 or 80gr SMKs... but you're going to be LOBBING them in. Maybe try some real hot handloads, but that doesn't sound like too good an idea.
Is the wink meant to imply the statement was a joke? Because that 168gr in 22" barrel will definitely be subsonic before 1000 yards.

An 80gr SMK or VLD in a .223 will make it to 100 yards. The limiting factor here is obviously wind drift, but also sight radius. The M-16/AR-15 service rifle gives up a lot in the sight radius department to match rifles (i.e. Palma or tube guns).

I'm not sure if there's a list of the Farr Trophy winners along with what rifle they used to win, but I know the AR-15 was used to take the Farr Trophy a couple times. Although last year, a M110 was used to take the Farr (M110 began Service Rifle eligibility in 2009).
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  #5  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:11 PM
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I thought he winked cuz he wrote .308?
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:17 PM
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even 860yds looks intimidating.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:20 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B9Nk...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJxQqkgGf0

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Old 06-30-2010, 6:17 AM
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I've seen a couple of Marines up at Camp Pendleton shoot their M-16's (or AR's if personal weapons) at our 1K Matches as a workup to the 29 Palms Match.

If I remember correctly, the mechanics work out to your 600 yd dope on the rear sight and 5 additional minutes down on the front.

I belive the shooters were using 80 grn SMK's.
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Last edited by SDJim; 06-30-2010 at 6:19 AM.. Reason: Adding additional info
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Old 06-30-2010, 7:10 AM
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it can be done. but there is a high rainbow arc to get them there.
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Old 06-30-2010, 7:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_711 View Post
What combination works best at that distance? 168gr .308, 22" barrel

If it has to be .223, I've messed around a little with an 18" SPR and my Rem 700, you can make hits with 77 or 80gr SMKs... but you're going to be LOBBING them in. Maybe try some real hot handloads, but that doesn't sound like too good an idea.



168 is not the ideal bullet for 1k imo. I would go up to a 175 or 155 scenar.
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Old 06-30-2010, 8:03 AM
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Some of the guys who shoot to 1,000 yards at Cuyama use the 80 grain SMKs out of their ARs
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Old 06-30-2010, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_711 View Post
What combination works best at that distance? 168gr .308, 22" barrel


The internet says so you only need an 18" barrel.
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Old 06-30-2010, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Some guy named Lane told me a 80gr SMK and ungodly amounts of N540 works pretty good
Funny, I heard the same thing from a guy named Lane.
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Old 06-30-2010, 9:27 AM
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why would you even bother? even if you can hit a target at a 1000 yards with a 223 why would you want to do it with a 223? its not gonna do any damage to a target at that range haha,it cant even drop a steel target to the ground at 100 yards, 223 is a cqb round anything within 500 yards then 223 is your friend but even thats pushing the stopping power of the round.

You will need to hit your target atleast 3 times to drop it or even hurt it at 500 yards.guys often forget that a 223 is bascially a damn 22 lr on top of a big casing! ive shot lots of ars and i think ars are cool guns but the 223 in my opinion is very overrated! I see guys that know nothin about guns but have money and buy an ar as there first gun all the time because of all the talk they hear about them!

honestly if you really wanna get up to distances around 1000 yards save your 1500 you wanna put towards a 223/5.56 ar and move up to something 30 cal like 308 or 06 or if your really serious try out a 338 lapua! 1000 yards is nothin for that hahaha.

Im an ak guy and will always love 30 cal over the precious 223/5.56 haha i mean ya its a fast accurate round and great for close quarters, but come on now! anything that small better be fast and accurate, whats really impressive is something big fast and accurate and thats where a 308 comes in to play! have fun at 1000 yards with your 223 hahaha
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Old 06-30-2010, 9:56 AM
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^ wait, you said anything in 30cal... I'm sure the ak doesn't reach 1k.

besides the op isn't trying to "knock down" anything, he/she just wants to shoot 1k with a .223. I'm sure it can punch thru paper.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:23 AM
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^ wait, you said anything in 30cal... I'm sure the ak doesn't reach 1k.

besides the op isn't trying to "knock down" anything, he/she just wants to shoot 1k with a .223. I'm sure it can punch thru paper.
well of course not but close quarters ill take the ak over an ar anyday, everybody says an ak isnt accurate haha,well i know how to handle an ak and someone who can handle an ak is deadly.

like the russian spetsnaz for example, can do what navy seals do with a 223 close quarters with a big 7.62x39. id rather put one round in 5 terrorists and drop them than multiple rounds in 5 terrorists to put them down.

just bottom line! ar close quarters even 6.5 and 6.8 rounds i wouldnt trust up to 1000 yards even though they are superior to the 223. then m1a socom if you like all those ar rails and optics and crap 1000 yards possible! me ill stick with 30 cal and iron sights haha
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:34 AM
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Yep, you're truly "bad" with an AK, aren't you.....

The thread is about long-range target shooting with a .223. Much like your AK, you're waaaay off target.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
^ wait, you said anything in 30cal... I'm sure the ak doesn't reach 1k.

besides the op isn't trying to "knock down" anything, he/she just wants to shoot 1k with a .223. I'm sure it can punch thru paper.
I bet a decent gun in 7.62x39 with custom ammo could do better than a .223 at 1000 yards. You could use a heavier bullet and push it just as fast. We are not talking about off the shelf ammo or rifles here.

As far as rainbows go, even a 50BMG drops over 28 FEET in 1000 yards.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:24 AM
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lol, I don't know a darn thing about shooting at 1,000 yards. As stated, I tried it on one occasion and fired maybe 100 rounds between the two rifles. I made a few decent hits but I was definitely walking them in. As to .308, I haven't taken mine past 500 yards yet, so I was just throwing out the first load that came to mind to make a joke that .223 is not ideal for 1k.

I should have not posted at all, and left this thread to you guys that do Palma or National Match type stuff. My apologies.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:38 AM
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Yep, you're truly "bad" with an AK, aren't you.....

The thread is about long-range target shooting with a .223. Much like your AK, you're waaaay off target.
hahaha typical ar fan huh? well an ak is off target depending on the shooter and im not sayin im bad with an ak but im better than alot of people ive come across. I dont think anyone can be a horrible shot with an ar haha.

It really takes no skill to shoot an ar its like shooting a 22 theres no recoil and no skill involved, especially with all the red dots and scopes you guys put on them. I like a challenge and shooting the ak with precision is alot more challenging than an ar that anybody can shoot. the ak is the number 1 rifle overall in the world for a reason! its called dependability, zombies start killin everybody im trustin my life to my ak and my kimber 1911.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:34 PM
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This is starting to turn into an epic thread following the entrance and subsequent posts of bayboydray408.
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayboydray408 View Post
well of course not but close quarters ill take the ak over an ar anyday, everybody says an ak isnt accurate haha,well i know how to handle an ak and someone who can handle an ak is deadly.

like the russian spetsnaz for example, can do what navy seals do with a 223 close quarters with a big 7.62x39. id rather put one round in 5 terrorists and drop them than multiple rounds in 5 terrorists to put them down.

just bottom line! ar close quarters even 6.5 and 6.8 rounds i wouldnt trust up to 1000 yards even though they are superior to the 223. then m1a socom if you like all those ar rails and optics and crap 1000 yards possible! me ill stick with 30 cal and iron sights haha
Except the spetnaz don't use that round anymore - and what does shooting terrorists have to do with finding the right ammo for long distance .223 shots = nothing, no one is going to engage people at that distance with that round unless thats all they have and are being fired at and can't find cover.

And your not going to shoot 1000 yards with a 30 cal and iron sights either so now that you'd talked yourself out of this thread completely look, read and learn, thx

It would be easier and probably the same cost to switch to 6.5mm rounds instead, incredibly challenging to do 223 so good luck if you still want to go that route I guess.
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bayboydray408 View Post
<snip>
id rather put one round in 5 terrorists and drop them than multiple rounds in 5 terrorists to put them down.
For a moment, judging by your level of expert deadliness on the internet, I thought you meant that you'd put down 5 terrorists with one round.

Reviewing your comments, perhaps you didn't mean they'd all be lined up in a row for you? I must have misunderstood.




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Old 06-30-2010, 1:19 PM
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no what he meant is he would knee cap the first guy and as he was doing one of those spin down hollywood movie moves he would spray the other 4 guys with his weapon
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayboydray408 View Post
well of course not but close quarters ill take the ak over an ar anyday, everybody says an ak isnt accurate haha,well i know how to handle an ak and someone who can handle an ak is deadly.

like the russian spetsnaz for example, can do what navy seals do with a 223 close quarters with a big 7.62x39. id rather put one round in 5 terrorists and drop them than multiple rounds in 5 terrorists to put them down.

just bottom line! ar close quarters even 6.5 and 6.8 rounds i wouldnt trust up to 1000 yards even though they are superior to the 223. then m1a socom if you like all those ar rails and optics and crap 1000 yards possible! me ill stick with 30 cal and iron sights haha
You're something special. He wants to shoot 1000yards. He doesn't want to hunt at 1000yards. He doesn't want to kill terrorists at 1000 yards. he wants to poke holes in paper at 1000 yards. In case you weren't aware, .223 will poke excellent holes in paper, even at 1000 yards. I know you're worried because it's a glorified .22, but trust me, .22s have the stopping power to take out oragami swans just fine.

Perhaps you should leave your internet commando'ing to a different thread. Perhaps there's an AK forum you can join to talk crap about AR's and .223's and feel at home?


ETA: OP, in short, it can be done. But probably not the best combination for a beginner, as you're going to need precise reloads, and from what I hear(not personal experience) a good amount of talent. .308 would be a good place to start shooting 1000, just to see if you like it. If not, your .308 will be a fine hunting rifle, and you'd still have a use for the gun even if you decide shooting at 1000 isn't for you.

Last edited by SixPointEight; 06-30-2010 at 1:23 PM..
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:21 PM
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no what he meant is he would knee cap the first guy and as he was doing one of those spin down hollywood movie moves he would spray the other 4 guys with his weapon



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Old 06-30-2010, 1:21 PM
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Thanks to bayboydray408 for taking this thread entirely off course.

OP: Pthfndr's recommendation of N540 is probably your best bet, especially if you're asking within the context of 1000 yard Service Rifle. N540 is essentially an improved version of N140, which gets higher muzzle velocities at equivalent pressures. You should be able to push an 80gr at 2750fps, and maybe even 2800fps+ safely.

Last time I checked, I had 24.0gr RL15 pushing an 80gr VLD 2725fps in my 20" 1:7" WOA (Lapua brass, CCI BR4).
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:42 PM
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Much like your AK, you're waaaay off target.
This is sigline worthy right here!
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:45 PM
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I bet a decent gun in 7.62x39 with custom ammo could do better than a .223 at 1000 yards.
You could use a heavier bullet and push it just as fast. We are not talking about off the shelf ammo or rifles here.
No.

Given the normal case capacity and pressure constrictions of each round, you could never get a good match 0.311 bullet going fast enough to make up for the case capacity/bore volume ratio of the 7.62x39.
BC is what matters, not bullet weight.

If you are comparing heavy bullets, you would probably be using a 175 or 190 in the 7.62x39 and a 90 in the 223.
The 223 wins that fight as far as wind goes and wind is what it's all about at 1000yds.
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayboydray408 View Post
zombies start killin everybody im trustin my life to my ak and my kimber 1911.
What's the matter, you don't trust your makarov or your tokarev?
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Old 06-30-2010, 1:51 PM
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This is starting to turn into an epic thread following the entrance and subsequent posts of bayboydray408.

It will only get better now that I'm here too...
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:09 PM
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You are serious business.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bayboydray408 View Post
well of course not but close quarters ill take the ak over an ar anyday, everybody says an ak isnt accurate haha,well i know how to handle an ak and someone who can handle an ak is deadly.

like the russian spetsnaz for example, can do what navy seals do with a 223 close quarters with a big 7.62x39. id rather put one round in 5 terrorists and drop them than multiple rounds in 5 terrorists to put them down.

just bottom line! ar close quarters even 6.5 and 6.8 rounds i wouldnt trust up to 1000 yards even though they are superior to the 223. then m1a socom if you like all those ar rails and optics and crap 1000 yards possible! me ill stick with 30 cal and iron sights haha
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaceghost View Post
You are serious business.

I'm so happy you posted that picture. Pretty much made my afternoon.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:23 PM
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Lane-good thread.

Hopefully you get more than 5 or 6 people posting here that have actually shot something at 1000 yards. As for me, I'll use my AK at that distance. I even fashioned a paper towel roll to the dust cover and made crosshairs out of fishing line. It'll spank your 223. Probably beat my 243 in wind too.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:28 PM
Spaceghost Spaceghost is offline
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I am so glad I was "inspired" to search for it, I was laughing so hard I couldn't post it for a few minutes. Made my day too and it has been a bad one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehouseproduct View Post
I'm so happy you posted that picture. Pretty much made my afternoon.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:50 PM
masterbush masterbush is offline
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You guys forgot to say hahaha after every sentence hahaha. Idiots hahaha.
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Old 06-30-2010, 2:59 PM
Ahhnother8 Ahhnother8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It will only get better now that I'm here too...
That right there is more sigline material...
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  #38  
Old 06-30-2010, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterbush View Post
You guys forgot to say hahaha after every sentence hahaha. Idiots hahaha.
hahahaha I noticed everyone that made there immature comment is an obvious ar owner, wow nobodys hatin on your precious high powered 22s. I never said I didnt like ars I was simply comparing a 223 to a 30 cal and why I would choose a 30 cal over a 223 and that a 223 has no effect at 1000 yards.

Then the offended ones gotta come in and defend! this forums for adults right? my bad if I insulted your precious eugene stoner gas impingement rifles I appologize I really do! done and over with we can now continue talkin about ars oh and hahahaha
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Old 06-30-2010, 4:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy_clothing View Post
Except the spetnaz don't use that round anymore - and what does shooting terrorists have to do with finding the right ammo for long distance .223 shots = nothing, no one is going to engage people at that distance with that round unless thats all they have and are being fired at and can't find cover.

And your not going to shoot 1000 yards with a 30 cal and iron sights either so now that you'd talked yourself out of this thread completely look, read and learn, thx

It would be easier and probably the same cost to switch to 6.5mm rounds instead, incredibly challenging to do 223 so good luck if you still want to go that route I guess.
ya the 5.45x39 in the ak 74 which ive read a few places that said its proven superior to the 223, no offense!
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Old 06-30-2010, 4:20 PM
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I guess that I'd better trade my 6.5 and 243 that I shoot at 1,000 yards every month and get a 30 caliber. I shoot my 22.250 out to 1,000 yards occasionally also. I can't believe I wasted all those thousands of rounds of ammunition.

Dang it, the 6.5 only needs 28.4 MOA from my 100 yard zero to reach 1,000 yards and the 308 needs over 40 MOA but it's obviously better.

Let me check the wind drift. My 6.5 needs 66" of windage for a 10mph full value wind and the 308 needs 107" but obviously the experts have decided that the 308 is a much better round for this application.


But to be really effective at 1,000 we should look at the remaining energy at 1,000 yards to prove a cartridge's worth for long range shooting.

My 6.5 has 817 ft lbs of energy remaining at 1,000 yards
The 308 has 467.6 ft lbs of energy remaining at 1,000 yards

Man, I can't believe how I ever could have thought that anything beats the 308!

Last edited by Fjold; 06-30-2010 at 4:29 PM..
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